Certified instructors

Tom...No doubt the PM you received likely mentioned me (like Fran said, PM's can be 'well meaning' or just dirogatory), as I did make a comment to that effect about someone else who is not a teacher, but wished to offer "pool learning tips". My comment was directed at the poster placing his "tips" in the appropriate forum. I also stated catagorically, that anyone is free to post answers to questions posted in the "Ask an Instructor" forum, whether they are an instructor or not. I also stated that there are some great instructors that are not 'certified'. There are no doubt some instructors (certified or not) who are better at what they do than some others. This is true in any teaching environment. Fran is incorrect that the PBIA is not interested in producing instructors who "have what it takes" to be competent instructors. This was true years ago, but things have changed substancially, with the formation of the PBIA. One of the primary goals, within the organization, is to weed out instructors who either, have no interest in continuing education, or who don't teach (but just hold on to the credentials). Another goal is to create a unified group of teachers, who have vested interests in being the best instructor they can be. We're hoping this can become a world-wide group, that people can feel comfortable going to for quality instruction, at any level. I certainly welcome you to the forum, and wish you the best of luck in providing good instruction to all those who are interested. I always recommend that my students seek out training from as many qualified individuals as they have time, money and opportunity to pursue. Seeing as you and Randyg are friends, that makes you one of mine by association. I look forward to meeting you the next time I'm in your area of FL! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I thank you for your comments Fran. I hope you understand I mean to cast no disparaging remarks toward the BCA or its instructor program. I feel the BCA is fulfilling an important function with their program.

To clarify my stance I wish to offer a bit of background. I recieved a PM from a member of AZB shortly before my somewhat controversial post. This PM warned me that there were members here who, as it was put to me, "might be out to get me because they did not believe I was a certified instructor." I couldn't understand why anyone here would feel this way but the comment got my blood up, and so my post. I felt then and still do feel that knowledge is knowledge and to place so much stock in whether someone is certified to the blind exclusion of all others is patently unfair and bigoted. I believe anyone who demonstrates great knowledge in a particular field, regardless of whether that knowledge should come from a certification course or through life experience, that person should be treated with the respect that goes with that knowledge. Though I am a certified instructor, I will welcome without bias or elitism any inteligent input on the subject of pool. I dedicated all of my adult life to this sport and refuse to belittle the game by ignoring another persons valid thoughts whoever they may be. Can you tell I hold rather strong feelings on this topic?

To all of you who teach the newcomers to become certified instructors, I only wish to say that I certainly have great faith in your purpose and your dedication to certifying quality instructors. However, In every field some poorly qualified results will be found. This should not detract from the enormously positive impact the BCA certification program provides. But it is like anything else. Buyer beware. The truth will always surface somehow and the weak and incompetent will be found out eventually.

Thanks,
Tom
 
Thank you very much Scott,
I hope we can become friend in the true sense of the word. I have not heard a single negitive statement from anyone here at AZ and the though I believe the thoughts behind the PM I received were well meaning they did cause a sense of uneasiness within me. Should you ever come to this area of Florida please consider yourself a welcome friend and look me up. I would feel honored to share some time with you deep in discussions over a sport we both obviously love. I have eagerly read your posts since rejoining AZB and I look forward to reading many more. Your insight is helpful to all of us.

Scott, you touched on the crux of the issue when you stated;

"I also stated catagorically, that anyone is free to post answers to questions posted in the "Ask an Instructor" forum, whether they are an instructor or not. I also stated that there are some great instructors that are not 'certified'."

This is what I was getting at. We must keep the doors open to all who have a opinion whether valid or not. Let truth be our guide not our egos.

Tom
 
Fran is incorrect that the PBIA is not interested in producing instructors who "have what it takes" to be competent instructors.

Um.... no, I didn't write that.
 
Fran...No, but you did say this, which could be interpreted that way...

First of all, the PBIA does not teach anything, nor does it dictate what can and can't be taught.

While "dictate" is not accurate, it is true that the PBIA, as a group, is trying to set standards for quality teaching...which has been only very loosely applied in the past. It is also true that the PBIA desires to offer opportunities for continuing education to it's instructors, and hopes that instructors of all 'grades' take advantage of these opportunites.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Um.... no, I didn't write that.
 
Fran...No, but you did say this, which could be interpreted that way...



While "dictate" is not accurate, it is true that the PBIA, as a group, is trying to set standards for quality teaching...which has been only very loosely applied in the past. It is also true that the PBIA desires to offer opportunities for continuing education to it's instructors, and hopes that instructors of all 'grades' take advantage of these opportunites.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I see my sentence confused you so let me rephrase: The BCA/PBIA does not demand that instructors teach pool a certain way, nor does it dictate to it's master and advanced instructors how to train instructors which is what I appreciate about that organization more than anything. That is why an instructor will get a diverse education as he or she works with different advanced and master instructors.
 
First of all, the PBIA does not teach anything, nor does it dictate what can and can't be taught.

If you want to progress within the program, it would probably not be a good idea to start arguing with the Advanced or Master Instructor who is going to be training and testing you. I think that holds true for everything in life. You learn how to become a team player until you are in a position to be able to call your own shots.

I didn't agree with everything my instructors taught and tested me on when I was advancing in the program. But I appreciated where they were coming from and respected their positions. And now that I look back, it's a good thing I kept my mouth shut in certain instances because years later, I realized I would have been wrong.

Now I'm in a position to train instructors and share the experience and expertise that I've earned throughout the years and yep, new instructors should probably refrain from arguing with me if they want to pass my course.

If people aren't willing to exercise self control, patience, and being a team player, then they probably are better off staying out of any organized programs.

You are correct and I appreciate your perspective to learn first and criticize later if at all.

I wasn't thinking of PBIA or BCA but there are some cookie cutter factories in the sport.
 
Certified Instructors

Hello to all you who take an interest in whether I happen to be a certified instructor or not. There appears to be humors flying. So I wish to tell one and all, one time only, that I was certified as an instructor back in 1995 in Maryland by Jerry B. of the BCA. Not that I hold that distinction in such high regard. Jerry is a great guy and he does fine work. It is just that I have seen many very incompetent "certified" instructors over the years.

Certification by the BCA or any other organization to me means very little. And it shouldn't mean that much to you as an instructor or as a student. What qualifies an instructor is his or her knowledge of the subject and their ability to convey that knowledge in a clear, concise manor and with integrity. This in fact is what the BCA was suppose to be about. To let the student know that he is getting an instructor who knows how to teach a productive method of learning for the student. That's all.

I have not been convinced that has been the case for several year now. I've seen many so called certified instructors who don't know how to play very well and teach with even less proficiency. Now before all you certified instructors blow your corks. I understand that for the most part the certified instructor program is a good thing and that most of you are excellent teachers. However there are a number of instructors who are not so good either, and you should be as alarmed as I am that they hold the same standing as you do as a qualified certified instructor. It is not so difficult to tell if someone knows what they are talking about on this site if they post enough responses. You may not agree with their approach in all matters but the fundamentals of what they write will be sound.

Well, I had to blow off a little steam here and I apologize in advance to anyone I may have offended, but in reality I believe the only ones I may be offending here are the incompetents posing as something else.

I'm not saying I'm the best instructor on this site. There are many excellent teachers here, but I know THAT because of what I've read from their posts, not because of some title they hang on their wall or place at the tail end of their postings.

Tom Wirth

Tom,
Ditto. I just recently checked in getting certified again, very disappointed. To me in seems we have an industry of full of pool snobs not to say that anyone is arrogant but to say that its a very exclusive club....excluding people because of money. Its pretty darn expensive to get certified around 900 and thats just level one of 4 levels not to mention all the hoops you have to jump through in order to traverse the next levels to Master Instructor.

I can tell you exactly what I think.....I think the instructor program is putting themselves out of business. It wont be forever before someone creates an organization designed to put instructors out there and provide education to them that enables them to simply do their job. Im no Einstein but it doesnt take a lot to see that there is a lot wrong with Pool and this in my humble opinion is one of those things. The fact that it comes from the organization that is supposed to be helping pool is very troubling to me. I think their thinking is off just a tad on the instructor program and how people view the cost and worth of being one. There are a lot of good people out there willing to help grow pool and would if they were able to have a credential.

Just another lovely day in paradise....

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
Tom,
Ditto. I just recently checked in getting certified again, very disappointed. To me in seems we have an industry of full of pool snobs not to say that anyone is arrogant but to say that its a very exclusive club....excluding people because of money. Its pretty darn expensive to get certified around 900 and thats just level one of 4 levels not to mention all the hoops you have to jump through in order to traverse the next levels to Master Instructor.

I can tell you exactly what I think.....I think the instructor program is putting themselves out of business. It wont be forever before someone creates an organization designed to put instructors out there and provide education to them that enables them to simply do their job. Im no Einstein but it doesnt take a lot to see that there is a lot wrong with Pool and this in my humble opinion is one of those things. The fact that it comes from the organization that is supposed to be helping pool is very troubling to me. I think their thinking is off just a tad on the instructor program and how people view the cost and worth of being one. There are a lot of good people out there willing to help grow pool and would if they were able to have a credential.

Just another lovely day in paradise....

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

Again, another misunderstanding of the program. There is no dictated price other than the $100 application fee to the PBIA/BCA which includes your dues through year-end. Any additional charges are up to the individual trainer for their particular course. If they tried to give you the impression that $900 is the BCA/PBIA mandatory fee, they are misleading you. Call around to different instructor trainers and you will see that there are varying fees.

But also keep in mind that what the PBIA does require is that trainers give a three-day course to teach and test new instructors. How much would anyone normally pay for a 3-day course in any field?
 
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Admission Ticket in Pool

Again, another misunderstanding of the program. There is no dictated price other than the $100 application fee to the PBIA/BCA which includes your dues through year-end. Any additional charges are up to the individual trainer for their particular course. If they tried to give you the impression that $900 is the BCA/PBIA mandatory fee, they are misleading you. Call around to different instructor trainers and you will see that there are varying fees.

But also keep in mind that what the PBIA does require is that trainers give a three-day course to teach and test new instructors. How much would anyone normally pay for a 3-day course in any field?

FranCrimi,
I do not doubt there is excellent instruction. Im sure there is. Just using a touch of common sense here though. I cant imagine that I would pay a whole lot less for any other instructor because.....its 3 days after all. Im just not sure that one would need that level of training...or the resulting bill...in order to help players progress their games from an introductory level and learn to love pool. To me the one thing lost here is lets get instructors instructing on a level where they can help the sport and lets get players playing and interested in the game.I cannot imagine that it would hurt pool to design a program that makes the admission ticket easier to pay first for the instructor, after all our numbers are dropping, pool establishments are closing and fewer numbers of players are being created.Im sure it a great program...its just might one that is a little overpriced for todays economy. In my area one would recover the cost of the 1st level of the program in probably 3 or 4 yrs at 3 to 4 students a year.....maybe.

Just another lovely day in paradise......

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
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FranCrimi,
I do not doubt there is excellent instruction. Im sure there is. Just using a touch of common sense here though. I cant imagine that I would pay a whole lot less for any other instructor because.....its 3 days after all. Im just not sure that one would need that level of training...or the resulting bill...in order to help players progress their games from an introductory level and learn to love pool. To me the one thing lost here is lets get instructors instructing on a level where they can help the sport and lets get players playing and interested in the game.I cannot imagine that it would hurt pool to design a program that makes the admission ticket easier to pay first for the instructor, after all our numbers are dropping, pool establishments are closing and fewer numbers of players are being created.Im sure it a great program...its just might one that is a little overpriced for todays economy. In my area one would recover the cost of the 1st level of the program in probably 3 or 4 yrs at 3 to 4 students a year.....maybe.

Just another lovely day in paradise......

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

If you have any ideas on how you can improve the program, you should send them to the PBIA. I'm sure all involved would be very interested in hearing them.

A word of advice, though: Try not to speak in general terms, like saying the cost should be cheaper. You should try to present a workable solution.
 
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Too expensive, yes.

FranCrimi,
I do not doubt there is excellent instruction. Im sure there is. Just using a touch of common sense here though. I cant imagine that I would pay a whole lot less for any other instructor because.....its 3 days after all. Im just not sure that one would need that level of training...or the resulting bill...in order to help players progress their games from an introductory level and learn to love pool. To me the one thing lost here is lets get instructors instructing on a level where they can help the sport and lets get players playing and interested in the game.I cannot imagine that it would hurt pool to design a program that makes the admission ticket easier to pay first for the instructor, after all our numbers are dropping, pool establishments are closing and fewer numbers of players are being created.Im sure it a great program...its just might one that is a little overpriced for todays economy. In my area one would recover the cost of the 1st level of the program in probably 3 or 4 yrs at 3 to 4 students a year.....maybe.

Just another lovely day in paradise......

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

I tend to agree with you.

Fran was also correct on the initial cost of just becoming certified. But it was more reasonable when I became Certiified in '93. I would have loved to go on to the Advanced and Master levels, but the cost of achieving that was way too much for my modest income.

I'm glad that there are Instructor programs. I fully understand that one doesn't need to be certified to be a good instructor, but I really get tired of seeing people who don't have the knowledge and skills to teach out there trying to do so. I see it all the time; as often as not they leave their "students" with more bad habits than they started with.

PBIA or ACS certification does make it a lot easier for the student to choose a teacher. They don't just give certification to anyone who pays the fee.

What makes a good instructor?

Knowledge and experience.

Being observant....seeing all details of the students game in an analytical way.

Establishing goals; what the student wants out of the lesson.

Communication skills: the ability to explain in understandable ways, the mechanics of stance and delivery and the physics of ball motions and interactions.

Humility; ego can get in the way of effective teaching.

Patience....with the student and yourself.

Honesty; teach with tactful but sometimes tough criticism.

Continuing education; always trying to learn more and teach better.
 
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Thoughtful Reply

I tend to agree with you.

Fran was also correct on the initial cost of just becoming certified. But it was more reasonable when I became Certiified in '93. I would have loved to go on to the Advanced and Master levels, but the cost of achieving that was way too much for my modest income.

I'm glad that they're are Instructor programs. I fully understand that one doesn't need to be certified to be a good instructor, but I really get tired of seeing people who don't have the knowledge and skills to teach out there trying to do so. I see it all the time; as often as not they leave their "students" with more bad habits than they started with.

PBIA or ACS certification does make it a lot easier for the student to choose a teacher. They don't just give certification to anyone who pays the fee.

What makes a good instructor?

Knowledge and experience.

Being observant....seeing all details of the students game in an analytical way.

Establishing goals; what the student wants out of the lesson.

Communication skills: the ability to explain in understandable ways, the mechanics of stance and delivery and the physics of ball motions and interactions.

Humility; ego can get in the way of effective teaching.

Patience....with the student and yourself.

Honesty; teach with tactful but sometimes tough criticism.

Continuing education; always trying to learn more and teach better.

Mr. Lutz,
Thankyou for your thoughtful reply. I think its hard to agree sometimes on what should be done to fix anything because it takes a lot of soul searching to realize just where things are. I know this personally on several issues. I think realization of what things are is the first part, acceptance is the 2nd part and action is the 3rd part.

I am not on here trying to beat someones action. The reason I made the comments I did are not some internal anger against anyone. It just is what it is. Times are bad, things have happened and we end up being where we are by whatever means got us there and guess what...we might want to drink the coffee of reality and wake up. I just felt it was something that needed to be said at least once. I have no plan to raise a tirade over this. I just love pool and I dont like to see anything that diminishes the possibility of adding more players to it at this point. Our exclusive club is a vanishing one, thats just a fact when rooms cant make it.

I appreciate your reply....

Just another lovely day in paradise.....

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
The pink elephant in the room is how certification can make it difficult to speak your mind. There are only some certified instructors who will sign off asserting that 100% of what their governing body teaches is absolutely true.

Please note I say "100%" and "absolutely" by way of a caveat.

I've had correspondence with people leaving different bodies because they are tired of fighting the wind...

Well, when I was certified by the BCA, nobody, and I mean nobody ever came to watch me give a lesson at the pool hall or in my basement, and now that I've switched to ACS, they have not done that either. I personally like the ACS a little less demanding in certain areas that I agree is not that important, and thus why I moved over. I got enough "stuff" I have to follow to a "t" at my day job, and thus I don't need pool to become a second job as well...

And yes, I only agree with qabout 80% of the BCA teaching format, and adjusted it to my liking and teaching style.... I'm thinking many others do the same thing......

Not really sure who I need to "watch" from speaking my mind?? Are the pool police gonna come and get me :)
 
Well, when I was certified by the BCA, nobody, and I mean nobody ever came to watch me give a lesson at the pool hall or in my basement, and now that I've switched to ACS, they have not done that either. I personally like the ACS a little less demanding in certain areas that I agree is not that important, and thus why I moved over. I got enough "stuff" I have to follow to a "t" at my day job, and thus I don't need pool to become a second job as well...

And yes, I only agree with qabout 80% of the BCA teaching format, and adjusted it to my liking and teaching style.... I'm thinking many others do the same thing......

Not really sure who I need to "watch" from speaking my mind?? Are the pool police gonna come and get me :)


Can you explain what the BCA teaching format is? I'm not familiar with it and would like to know if maybe I missed that memo.
 
Certification Credential Lofty Pursuit

FranCrimi,
I missed your post earlier today. Maybe when I get the time I will give that some thought and do that.....cheaper.....not a good word, but if I were designing it Im sure it would be less expensive to teach, would certainly have some structure and an instructor would be born that wouldnt be upside down financially to the point that they would not want to come back to purchase more instruction later on but that would be an option. I do work a lot but I do love pool and would like to see pool thrive not just exist and I do not think we need to discourage people from the instructor program.

Im sure there is a lot of quality in the current program. In 3 days I can imagine thats plenty of time to cover a lot, possibly too much. I also know there are problems with logistics and how much one needs to be paid for traveling to go somewhere to teach it for 3 days.

Perhaps if it were more affordable and more people were willing to go through it and become field representatives of the Instructor Program and have the same pride that Certified Instructors should have, the bottom rung of pool would be much stronger.

I do not doubt the pride and the quality with which you guys....Instructors give the program....but my opinion is you are out of reach of your target audience. Im working two jobs, paying tution, trying to retire and dont have money to waste and I think Im doing a little better than most and I find it pricey because mainly the state of the sport in my area and the time I have to give it right now but if I were certified at least we would have an instructor in this area and in not so long a time I will have some more time to give pool.

For an outsider who knows nothing about the program itself to come in and make anything more than an observation and a general statement seems just a little out of place but.....I think its worth giving some thought to what I said.

I just love pool and looked into the program again for the 2nd or 3rd time and walked away from my curiosity shaking my head. My main concern is..... what do we have to do....in this fairly disjointed sport to create players? Its not so much about how can we make money? If you want to make money and thats it then pool is not the place to be. I can make more money mowing grass. However the organization of pool isnt something that I believe we can expect to be paid a lot for...at this time. Financial instability in the country among other things threatens the entire industry and ultimately the sport. People have money for their recreation but not a lot, which is the norm for pool players.

As I type this tome I think much more than a general observation really is all that is needed here as I know nothing more about the program other than I cant afford it and I doubt I need 3 days of it to be able to do what I need to for a beginner. In fact Im sure I could do that right now with what I know. I would be concerned that people who had not reached a certain level of proficiency would want to take part in and pass an Instructor program that was....abbreviated or made more workable but.....thats easy to find out after playing some.....if you make them travel to get it....if you see they arent ready to teach anyone....you just tell them.....but if they beat your brains out and know how they do what they do and know how to tell someone else how to do it.......I think its worth skipping some pomp and circumstance and cost to get someone out there teaching other people how to do that and loving the game.....I know of no one who died....from something someone showed them something pool...... that wasnt quite perfect...but I got the point of your post....and I hope you now understand my motive....I doubt I would be the expert to redesign the tiers of your program.....but my general observation, my curiosity, the fact that I find it exclusive to the point of a deterrent given the fact that I think I love pool more than the average guy.....well those things might be something to consider depending on what the goals of the Instructor Program really are....food for thought anyway and thankyou for your response. Perhaps someone will consider these things. I do realize the investment current instructors have made is considerable and thats a problem that is fixable by simply adjusting ourselves...Ive certainly had to adjust to things before....1st we realize what is...2nd we wrap our minds around what needs to be done....3rd we do something about it or not. It seems a huge problem in the country is cost of education, this seems to separate the classes and we wonder why we have the chaos we do from less educated people much less the drama educated ones have. Making education more exclusive does not seem the answer, not to me, but if you want me to redesign the Instructor Program for mass consumption I will be glad to do so, but I might need to be educated just a little bit first otherwise I think I will leave that to more scholarly personnel, common sense is my perview. I have a belief that everything life and pool is much less complicated than made out to be, so far I've been right, mostly its just how you choose to look at things. I was always told that if you find yourself in a hole the best thing to do is stop digging.

Just another lovely day in paradise.....

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com



If you have any ideas on how you can improve the program, you should send them to the PBIA. I'm sure all involved would be very interested in hearing them.

A word of advice, though: Try not to speak in general terms, like saying the cost should be cheaper. You should try to present a workable solution.
 
Hi all there :)

i also tend to agree with many postings here- but to *discuss* about the amount of money is difficult.
For example i personally also received *funny emails* or messages from guys. who had been upset......(for example bc i instructed for *cheap* or *nothing* in some cases).
Some programs are great, some programs are just money machines. That s a fact. But programs are for sure necessary and they are a good option. Many things needed to be learnt (not just *how to teach pool*).

This *jealous factor* is everywhere, too. I also do it just beside my daily job- it s my passion, i love it. And usually the students pay,what they CAN pay. I have anyway different agreements with most of my students. And til now i think both sides are satisfied.

If a person makes a living from being an instructor, he needs to earn good money. Some ppl cannot imagine that this can be brutally hard. (even if you re an excellent and well known instructor).
 
So what does it take to be an “Instructor”. See Bob Jewett's outline for the “Recognized Instructor Course” http://www.sfbilliards.com/richandout.pdf. The applicant learns, “What to teach,” “How to teach it,” and “Course Organization.” This is accomplished by testing the applicant's ability and then presenting the materials for how to teach the basic course.

The “Basic Course” ( http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf) includes the following material: Cue selection, chalking, basic stance, sighting, and stroke mechanics. This is followed by an intro to Progressive Practice and a video analysis. A review of these outlines indicates that this is an organized approach to teaching people who desire to be a recognized instructor.

You cannot teach people to be good teachers. You can explain what is needed to be a good teacher, such as organization and how to interact with students as Jewett does in his workshop outline. You cannot instill what it takes to be a good teacher because these are basically personality characteristics that have to do with one's ability to manage interpersonal relations under specific circumstances. The management of interpersonal relations can be taught but it is far beyond what is taught here and is usually not learned in a classroom environment. We have all met state licensed teachers in middle school, high school and college who had years of experience wrecking young lives. A desire to be a teacher and the ability to teach are not the same thing, whether one is paid or unpaid. A teacher is a special kind of person with specific desires.

It is reasonably well known that success breeds success. Good teachers can point to their outstanding students and usually do not hesitate to do so. It has been shown that Nobel Prize winners are often the mentors for other Nobel Prize winners. And students are more than pleased to tell others the names of teachers and mentors who helped in their development. In my opinion an instructor who cannot tell you who his students are does not have any significant students. I can name the names of all of my significant teachers and most of my students who have gone on to positions of public importance. Among professional pool players it is not uncommon to hear them state from whom they learned. It can be concluded that often professional players are also not hesitant to identify their teachers and mentors.

The BCA and other organizations have designed certification programs for any of several reasons, not least of which is to help people make money by establishing a guild. There is nothing wrong with this, physicians and state certified teachers among others have established modern day guilds in which “unrecognized” people are pushed aside. In the high school arena a PhD chemist cannot teach a chemistry course because the chemist has not been state certified to teach high school. If you review what state certified teachers are required to learn it is not much different than what Jewett teaches with the addition of a practicum.

A review of what is taught in a basic pool workshop will show that the materials do not differ much from what is available in any of several books. Robert Bryne's works are among the best in this area. So why should a student pay $300.00 for the material readily available for about $15.00 in a book format (http://www.amazon.com/Byrnes-Standard-Book-Pool-Billiards/dp/0156005549). Let alone the idea that it is available for free in most libraries unless the “Instructor” can give good reason why the student should study with him or her.

The pool instructors certification programs are nothing more than an attempt to establish guilds until such time as they can show reasons why they are more than this. Some of the abrasive personalities on this forum who list themselves as certified instructors are a tribute to the idea that teaching skills cannot be easily taught.

In the interim, I simply ignore those who claim to be a pool instructor because they have paid for some course of instruction until they can demonstrate that they are indeed real teachers.

As the saying goes on this section, I am not a pool instructor, I am a retired Professor :eek:
 
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I often see and hear comments about the supposed BCA way of teaching.

I don't know where that idea started or why it continues, but it is totally false. I imagine there may be some instructors who are not in any hurry to correct a student who thinks that what that instructor is teaching them is the BCA/PBIA way.

But there is no BCA/PBIA way and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 
Instructional Materials

So what does it take to be an “Instructor”. See Bob Jewett's outline for the “Recognized Instructor Course” http://www.sfbilliards.com/richandout.pdf. The applicant learns, “What to teach,” “How to teach it,” and “Course Organization.” This is accomplished by testing the applicant's ability and then presenting the materials for how to teach the basic course.

The “Basic Course” ( http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf) includes the following material: Cue selection, chalking, basic stance, sighting, and stroke mechanics. This is followed by an intro to Progressive Practice and a video analysis. A review of these outlines indicates that this is an organized approach to teaching people who desire to be a recognized instructor.

You cannot teach people to be good teachers. You can explain what is needed to be a good teacher, such as organization and how to interact with students as Jewett does in his workshop outline. You cannot instill what it takes to be a good teacher because these are basically personality characteristics that have to do with one's ability to manage interpersonal relations under specific circumstances. The management of interpersonal relations can be taught but it is far beyond what is taught here and is usually not learned in a classroom environment. We have all met state licensed teachers in middle school, high school and college who had years of experience wrecking young lives. A desire to be a teacher and the ability to teach are not the same thing, whether one is paid or unpaid. A teacher is a special kind of person with specific desires.

It is reasonably well known that success breeds success. Good teachers can point to their outstanding students and usually do not hesitate to do so. It has been shown that Nobel Prize winners are often the mentors for other Nobel Prize winners. And students are more than pleased to tell others the names of teachers and mentors who helped in their development. In my opinion an instructor who cannot tell you who his students are does not have any significant students. I can name the names of all of my significant teachers and most of my students who have gone on to positions of public importance. Among professional pool players it is not uncommon to hear them state from whom they learned. It can be concluded that often professional players are also not hesitant to identify their teachers and mentors.

The BCA and other organizations have designed certification programs for any of several reasons, not least of which is to help people make money by establishing a guild. There is nothing wrong with this, physicians and state certified teachers among others have established modern day guilds in which “unrecognized” people are pushed aside. In the high school arena a PhD chemist cannot teach a chemistry course because the chemist has not been state certified to teach high school. If you review what state certified teachers are required to learn it is not much different than what Jewett teaches with the addition of a practicum.

A review of what is taught in a basic pool workshop will show that the materials do not differ much from what is available in any of several books. Robert Bryne's works are among the best in this area. So why should a student pay $300.00 for the material readily available for about $30.00 in a book format. Let alone the idea that it is available for free in most libraries unless the “Instructor” can give good reason why the student should study with him or her.

The pool instructors certification programs are nothing more than an attempt to establish guilds until such time as they can show reasons why they are more than this. Some of the abrasive personalities on this forum who list themselves as certified instructors is a tribute to the idea that teaching skills cannot be easily taught.

In the interim, I simply ignore those who claim to be a pool instructor because they have paid for some course of instruction until they can demonstrate that they are indeed real teachers.

As the saying goes on this section, I am not a pool instructor, but I am a retired Professor :eek:

JoeW,
Thankyou for your post. I will take a look at the resources you mention and thankyou for reminding me how important intent is, duly noted. I will start looking over the free resources available to me, I have the Byrne Books and just see what it is I can find and what it is I need to learn to do.

Just another lovely day in paradise.....

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
Teaching

So what does it take to be an “Instructor”. See Bob Jewett's outline for the “Recognized Instructor Course” http://www.sfbilliards.com/richandout.pdf. The applicant learns, “What to teach,” “How to teach it,” and “Course Organization.” This is accomplished by testing the applicant's ability and then presenting the materials for how to teach the basic course.

The “Basic Course” ( http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf) includes the following material: Cue selection, chalking, basic stance, sighting, and stroke mechanics. This is followed by an intro to Progressive Practice and a video analysis. A review of these outlines indicates that this is an organized approach to teaching people who desire to be a recognized instructor.

You cannot teach people to be good teachers. You can explain what is needed to be a good teacher, such as organization and how to interact with students as Jewett does in his workshop outline. You cannot instill what it takes to be a good teacher because these are basically personality characteristics that have to do with one's ability to manage interpersonal relations under specific circumstances. The management of interpersonal relations can be taught but it is far beyond what is taught here and is usually not learned in a classroom environment. We have all met state licensed teachers in middle school, high school and college who had years of experience wrecking young lives. A desire to be a teacher and the ability to teach are not the same thing, whether one is paid or unpaid. A teacher is a special kind of person with specific desires.

So you're saying that some folks are born teachers and that's it? I agree that good teachers may have innate skills, but would you have someone teaching your children without a degree or certificate because he or she "desires" to teach? People have told me (since I taught a class at age ten) that I was a "born teacher". I've taught a variety of subjects, but I'm the first to admit that when I first tried to teach kids how to play pool, I wasn't that good at it. But I've made a concerted effort to improve as a teacher. I believe you never stop learning unless you choose to. I learn more almost daily about teaching.

It is reasonably well known that success breeds success. Good teachers can point to their outstanding students and usually do not hesitate to do so. It has been shown that Nobel Prize winners are often the mentors for other Nobel Prize winners. And students are more than pleased to tell others the names of teachers and mentors who helped in their development. In my opinion an instructor who cannot tell you who his students are does not have any significant students. I can name the names of all of my significant teachers and most of my students who have gone on to positions of public importance. Among professional pool players it is not uncommon to hear them state from whom they learned. It can be concluded that often professional players are also not hesitant to identify their teachers and mentors.

The BCA and other organizations have designed certification programs for any of several reasons, not least of which is to help people make money by establishing a guild. There is nothing wrong with this, physicians and state certified teachers among others have established modern day guilds in which “unrecognized” people are pushed aside. In the high school arena a PhD chemist cannot teach a chemistry course because the chemist has not been state certified to teach high school.

A review of what is taught in a basic pool workshop will show that the materials do not differ much from what is available in any of several books. Robert Bryne's works are among the best in this area. So why should a student pay $300.00 for the material readily available for about $30.00 in a book format. Let alone the idea that it is available for free in most libraries unless the “Instructor” can give good reason why the student should study with him or her.

Books are great, but they can't watch you play, and they don't give you a lot of feedback. Only an actual person can do this. And by the way, not all instructors charge $300 for a lesson. For $30 you can get two hours with me, and thus still probably afford a good book too!

The pool instructors certification programs are nothing more than an attempt to establish guilds until such time as they can show reasons why they are more than this. Some of the abrasive personalities on this forum who list themselves as certified instructors is a tribute to the idea that teaching skills cannot be easily taught.

In the interim, I simply ignore those who claim to be a pool instructor because they have paid for some course of instruction until they can demonstrate that they are indeed real teachers.

Instructor programs are not meant to be a test of one's teaching skills. The reason that one goes from one level to another is much like a getting a Masters degree compared to a Bachelor's. You weren't expected to know everything taught in the graduate courses when you started. You learn more as you go along. When you attend pool classes (with the intent of becoming certified), you are expected to know a little about pool, but the point of the class is to learn, - more about the game, and more about how to teach it. That's why Masters Instructors generally know more than Level 1 Instructors.

And by the way, you don't just pay for the the course and get a certificate. You must demonstrate to the teacher that you have attained the skills required....you actually have to pass the course, as in any classroom. I'm sure you can cite an example where you feel someone you know has a certificate isn't qualified to teach, but unless you set some kind of standard, you'll end up with fewer good teachers, not more.


As the saying goes on this section, I am not a pool instructor, but I am a retired Professor :eek:

I've taught bowling, billiards, science, philosophy and nutrition. I couldn't have taught any of these without some training.
 
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