Taking the cue ball out of the ball return and placing it on the table and then NOT telling the player is tantamount to cheating.
Rules, Rules, Rules......
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
Taking the cue ball out of the ball return and placing it on the table and then NOT telling the player is tantamount to cheating.
I don't think it's right to stick your nose in....I won't even call a hit unless
they both agree....it's a two-handed game.
...and yes, he's a cheater....I never give a guy like that a fair game.
And I never leave the table with someone like that unless it's my turn.
Sounds like player A is a pool hero, will soon be in the hof if not already. :frown:
Anyone who places any kind of trust in this guy will be disappointed sooner than later.
I also think that player B walking off without a friend to watch the game for him was a silly thing to do when money is on the line.
Anyone who places any kind of trust in this guy will be disappointed sooner than later.
I also think that player B walking off without a friend to watch the game for him was a silly thing to do when money is on the line.
No there shouldn't.
I was playing a guy in Athens one pocket for 1000 a game a couple of years ago. Its his break, I said go ahead I have to go to the bathroom, when I get back the cueballs on the rail. I later found out he scratched. He did this in front of over 20 people and lost alot of respect from many people. I have seen people be very honest for small bets, but you get to see their true colors when the bet gets high enough. So, no the person that scratched should leave the ball alone!
I've always played to fetch my own scratches as a courtesy to the other guy. I never really thought about greasing a ball. That's just childish. I read somewhere, maybe Byrne, that it was considered good ettiquete to fetch your own slop.
It's already a rule. I don't have time to look it up now (late for work) but the only time a player is supposed to pick up the cue ball is when that player has ball in hand.
On the break or after the other person fouls are the only time you are allowed to pick up the cue ball.
My understanding of the rules is that it is illegal to pick up the cue ball after a foul and hand it to your opponent. Scratch or any other kind of foul.
If I remember correctly this in an intentional foul. But I need to look it up again as this rule may have changed since the last time I read it.
If I get the CB after I scratch I tell the shooter it's a scatch even if I think he knows it no matter what i'm playing for. If you're not going to tell the guy then leave the CB in the pocket or return tray.
It's cheating if you place it on the table and don't tell him, even when you see he is going to shoot from where you placed it. Is it ok to sucker punch the guy that didn't tell you? After all, "when you snooze you get a broken nose." Johnnyt
It's cheating if you place it on the table and don't tell him, even when you see he is going to shoot from where you placed it. Is it ok to sucker punch the guy that didn't tell you? After all, "when you snooze you get a broken nose." Johnnyt
Ok, fair enough. So why do you think there shouldn't be a rule like this? (Please don't say because we already have enough rules or that a player can only take a time-out break when it is his turn at the table).
What happens if your opponent scratches and you are at the table, but reached down to pick up your drink and have a sip of water and your opponent scratches and then quickly places the cue ball on the table? He says nothing to you and allows you to shoot the cue ball from where he placed it.
What happens if you turn to look at a sports program on the television and momentarily look back and find the cue ball sitting on the table and you have a hard shot? Sure, you can ask the opponent if he made a good shot and all that but should a person even need to ask such a question?:frown:
3 things.
There should be no rule.
Player B is a retard for gambling and not being on top of things, and naively expecting people that he is gambling with to be honest.
Player A needs to be shot in the head, chopped up, and used to chum the waters when player B goes shark fishing.
There should be no rule.
Player B is a retard for gambling and not being on top of things, and naively expecting people that he is gambling with to be honest.
Player A needs to be shot in the head, chopped up, and used to chum the waters when player B goes shark fishing.
El-ahrairah
Banned
In the countless thousands of hours I've spent playing, I've never had this happen to me. If I scratched and my opponent was away from the table, I either tell him or place the ball on the rail so it's obvious. I don't recall ever leaving a table while I was in a match or gambling if my opponent was still playing the table. Because it is such a non issue for me, I envision a rule or section of rules governing the issue to be cumbersome.
I would think that most people understand that there are angle shooters and scumbags who have to be watched constantly, so if I happen to be playing one of those, I watch them constantly. But if I had to take my eyes off of them, I would absolutely have someone I trust watching them.
I would think that most people understand that there are angle shooters and scumbags who have to be watched constantly, so if I happen to be playing one of those, I watch them constantly. But if I had to take my eyes off of them, I would absolutely have someone I trust watching them.
Laughing at the last paragraph--so true.
I have myself, left the table when it was my opponent's turn to shoot, while gambling with people that I trust for small stakes, never worrying that they would cheat or take advantage of me while I am away from the table.
For larger stakes, (with all people) I don't leave the table unless it is my turn and even then I look at the layout of the table carefully, especially if I am playing a dirtbag.
As most have said, it's best not to trust anyone when gambling. Leaving the table unguarded is asking for trouble. Same thing goes for posting or not posting money when gambling.
Joey,
My original comment on this thread was obviously from personal experience. Hate to agree there are sooooo many scumbags out there who will cheat you for five dollars.
Played a guy in Vegas for $5 a rack one hole. Some said it was a big dollar game for him. Regardless, he about fell over when I accidentally touched the cue ball with my cue tip while addressing it and called a foul on myself. Always thought "if you cheat over nothing, what will you do for something". Been there. Done that. Still embarrassed all these years later. When I took a short break, he left with me. When he returned after me, he still looked at the trays in the table and counted balls. For $5! Guess he'd been screwed before as well.
Lyn
This situation is the same as "Post Up".
If you don't post up and you get stiffed, you have no one to blame but yourself. Sure the other guy is a scumbag. You still don't have your money.
If you leave the table during ANY match always have someone watch it for you and let your opponent know they are watching.
Next.
Ray
R.I.P. Smorg - Listen to one of Smorgs favorites as you cruise AZ. Have a great day all! imo.
If you don't post up and you get stiffed, you have no one to blame but yourself. Sure the other guy is a scumbag. You still don't have your money.
If you leave the table during ANY match always have someone watch it for you and let your opponent know they are watching.
Next.
Ray
R.I.P. Smorg - Listen to one of Smorgs favorites as you cruise AZ. Have a great day all! imo.
Lyn,
I often return to the table and check the ball count because I don't remember how many balls I had when I left and want to make sure that I know the ball count as the game commences.
I guess it would be easy to imagine that someone is checking to see if his opponent stole a ball, especially if he is on occasion, guilty of cheating or that he is just not a trusting person.
My interpretation may be off but this is the rule I was referencing.
1-40 Deliberate Foul
During a game, it is a deliberate foul if you commit any of the following acts. In addition
to the penalties under the General Rules and specific game rules, you incur additional
penalties as indicated, and upon the first violation you will receive a mandatory warning
that second and subsequent violations of the same sub-section during the match will be
penalized by loss of game. (Exception: see Rule 6.17 for penalties in 14.1 Continuous.)
a. Deflecting cue ball on a break shot: After a stroke on a break shot,
including a miscue, it is a deliberate foul if you intentionally touch or
deflect the cue ball. The break is illegal, regardless of whether the cue ball
contacts the rack, or whether specific game rules for break shots are met.
Your opponent may either re-rack and break or require you to re-rack and
break again.
b. Cue ball: It is a deliberate foul if you intentionally:
1) strike, move or deflect the cue ball with anything other than your cue
tip (except when you have ball in hand);
2) pick up or contact the cue ball with your hand while it or any other
ball is in motion;
3) end your inning by picking up the cue ball, or by refusing to shoot
(AR p. 91);
4) cause the cue ball to move by contacting or moving any part of the
table in any way. (AR p. 91)
1-40 Deliberate Foul
During a game, it is a deliberate foul if you commit any of the following acts. In addition
to the penalties under the General Rules and specific game rules, you incur additional
penalties as indicated, and upon the first violation you will receive a mandatory warning
that second and subsequent violations of the same sub-section during the match will be
penalized by loss of game. (Exception: see Rule 6.17 for penalties in 14.1 Continuous.)
a. Deflecting cue ball on a break shot: After a stroke on a break shot,
including a miscue, it is a deliberate foul if you intentionally touch or
deflect the cue ball. The break is illegal, regardless of whether the cue ball
contacts the rack, or whether specific game rules for break shots are met.
Your opponent may either re-rack and break or require you to re-rack and
break again.
b. Cue ball: It is a deliberate foul if you intentionally:
1) strike, move or deflect the cue ball with anything other than your cue
tip (except when you have ball in hand);
2) pick up or contact the cue ball with your hand while it or any other
ball is in motion;
3) end your inning by picking up the cue ball, or by refusing to shoot
(AR p. 91);
4) cause the cue ball to move by contacting or moving any part of the
table in any way. (AR p. 91)
Which rule book is this out of Matt?
http://www.playbca.com/downloads/rulebook/completerulebook.aspx
You can enter page 40 next to the up and down arrows and it will take you to it.
I always thought this rule meant that you can't just pick up the cue ball and give your opponent ball in hand. There has to be some attempt at a shot.
If you fouled that would have ended your inning, so I wouldn't see anything handing the cueball to your opponent as violating this rule.