How do AZ'ers shoot a stop-shot?

jeffj2h said:
If you practice stop shots using a striped ball as the CB, you can see when the back spin transitions to slide and transitions to forward roll. I practice stop shots with a measle ball. That allows me to see any english I accidentally applied to the CB. I seem to often hit a 1/4 tip of left english, because the measle CB will do a half clockwise rotation after stopping. Something in my mechanics I have not figured out...
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Jeff,

That's intersting. Do you plan for that 1/4 tip of english when shooting your shots? CJ Wiley uses his touch of inside to predict his out come. I use a bit of english on almost every shot for a similiar reason. We do not want any unexpected outcome from perhaps a slight misplacement of the tip on the cue ball.

I'm interested in you answer since you know it is in your stroke.

Regards,
 
Shoot low on CB and adjust my speed for every stop shot except those where CB-OB distance is very close. In this case I'd hit centre CB.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Jeff,

That's intersting. Do you plan for that 1/4 tip of english when shooting your shots? CJ Wiley uses his touch of inside to predict his out come. I use a bit of english on almost every shot for a similiar reason. We do not want any unexpected outcome from perhaps a slight misplacement of the tip on the cue ball.

Regards,
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No I don't plan for it. I've heard some pros saying the do it on purpose. Mike Sigel said he would use a 1/4 tip of english to prevent skid; the english reduced the odds of the chalk from the CB impact point being at the point of impact with the OB. Other pros say they do it to "spin the ball in". I don't know what that means because supposedly any spin imparted on the OB disappears quickly as the OB rolls down the table.

When I'm practice stroking, I seem to be aiming center ball. But when I stroke to hit it, my back arm must be making a slight jog at the end.

Mike Massey has a similar (but for the good) jog in his stoke. I was in a clinic with him and was standing straight across the table as he was showing how to bank. He set up a straight in bank but I could see in his practice stokes he was consistently aiming with a little cut. Then at the last moment before contact his stroke straightened out and he hit the OB full. I decided not to mention it to him, fearing I would forever destroy the stroke of one of the all-time greats ;*)
 
I have learned how to combine my Speed & Spin for any shot. Stop shots lead into Tangent Line shots that turn into position play.

randyg
 
You should practice both. The fundamental process for getting a ball to stop when shooting straight in, is also the same principal to get the ball to travel on the tangent line when shooting angled shots. So you should learn to alter both the spin and the speed in order to build the foundation you need later.

Also, keep in mind, that the harder you hit the cue ball, the longer distance you will have to get the ball to stop. That is, the "slide" (with no spin) distance is longer the harder you hit the ball. So it may be easier - at first - to learn the stop shot with a medium to hard stroke as they have a larger margin of error.

-td
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Interesting question - seems nobody understands it.

I hit the same place on the CB (very low) and change speed depending on distance.

pj
chgo
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Wow. Thank-you. At least somebody knows I'm not asking how I should shoot a stop. Or, what drills to practice. I'm curious as to the thought process of other players on how they most easily get a consistent stop at various distances.
 
there is a difference between "hitting a" stop shot and "owning the" stop shot.

my 5 year old hit a stop shot today totally by accident the balls were 6 inches apart..

but to "own" the stop shot means you have the ability to reliably follow 2 inches and/or draw 2 inches at the slowest possible speed...regardless of the distance between the 2 balls...you can always raise your tip and increase speed to achieve a stop shot/sliding CB, but doing so limits your ability to manipulate the tangent line because as cut angles get thinner..the tangent line becomes more certain and your ability to manipulate it only exists at the slow end of the speed spectrum..

you don't own the slide zone until you own the edges of the zone..

because the range of speeds between those 2 shots at any given distance is the total possible controllable speed range for the tangent line at that given distance..

you then need to learn how much speed is retained over the cut angle spectrum.. as the cut becomes thinner and thinner eventually you reach a point where applied spin no longer has any effect on the tangent line knowing that limit is also useful

once you get there THEN you're cooking with gas.. now you can reliably control a CB
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Interesting question - seems nobody understands it.

I hit the same place on the CB (very low) and change speed depending on distance.

pj
chgo
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Or, you could shoot approximately the same speed and vary the vertical height of your contact point on the cue ball depending on distance to the object ball,,,,,,,I find this easier than varying speeds.
 
DrClean said:
I'm curious as to the thought process of other players on how they most easily get a consistent stop at various distances.
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mikepage said:
Being able to do a variable-speed stop shot is critically important not just for that stop-shot safety or the one-pocket shot where you need to control the speed of the object ball, but also because that is the way you stun a ball cut at an angle and get the cueball to stay on the 90 degree line. Controlling the distance of the cueball along that stun line is, of course, a big deal.
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As Mike Page pointed out, what you need to accomplish for the shot will dictate the speed necessary. Pick the speed that gets the balls where they must go, then pick the tip position to go along with it for the distance between the cue ball and object ball.

Choosing the speed and spin necessary for the shot is easy if you're practiced at stopping the cue ball at set distances between it and the object ball by varying speed, and then again varying tip positions. Once you have these references, it's easy to choose a combination that is appropriate for the shot at hand.
 
Mark Avlon said:
As Mike Page pointed out, what you need to accomplish for the shot will dictate the speed necessary. Pick the speed that gets the balls where they must go, then pick the tip position to go along with it for the distance between the cue ball and object ball.

Choosing the speed and spin necessary for the shot is easy if you're practiced at stopping the cue ball at set distances between it and the object ball by varying speed, and then again varying tip positions. Once you have these references, it's easy to choose a combination that is appropriate for the shot at hand.
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A serious question, when it is this easy for you, and the stroke is so straight, how does one not rob the world?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Interesting question - seems nobody understands it.

I hit the same place on the CB (very low) and change speed depending on distance.

pj
chgo
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I'm sure you have a GREAT stop shot...but just because others don't shoot them the way you do doesn't suggest they don't understand the question.

I've spent countless hours figuring out (visually*) how far the CB will skid at different speeds...and different tip contact points. Of course, the CB colliding with the OB while the CB is skidding is what causes the CB to stop dead.

I personally, would see little benefit...and quite possibly some negatives associated with ALWAYS hitting "very low" on the CB rather than "low enough" to produce skid over the required distance.

Personally, I shoot the shot at "pocket speed+" and use however much "low" I need to skid the CB to the OB.

If anything...a little FASTER pace than necessary with OTHER than very low CB contact would be more likely than not to produce STOP and not DRAW...IMHO.

(-:

EagleMan

*To VISUALIZE skid...the half red/white practice balls are GREAT. Otherwise, use a stripped ball with the stripe oriented left to right...not forward.
 
ChrisBanks said:
A serious question, when it is this easy for you, and the stroke is so straight, how does one not rob the world?
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Since you quoted another member's post then logic requires us to conclude you were referring to THAT post.

Further, it is logical to assume that your remarks had to do with the stop shot since that was what the poster you quoted was referring to.

Given that...your question isn't "serious" at all but rather pretty lame because having the best stop shot in the world...in and of itself...will not allow you to "rob the world" at pool as anyone with even marginal knowledge of the game would know full well.

(-:

EagleMan
 
Interesting question - seems nobody understands it.

I hit the same place on the CB (very low) and change speed depending on distance.

pj
chgo
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EagleMan:
... just because others don't shoot them the way you do doesn't suggest they don't understand the question.
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Of course not. That was shown by the fact that nobody was answering it.

EagleMan:
I personally, would see little benefit...and quite possibly some negatives associated with ALWAYS hitting "very low" on the CB rather than "low enough" to produce skid over the required distance.
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Fixing one parameter and only varying the other greatly simplifies things - kinda like bankers hitting all shots at a certain speed. I think tip position is the harder parameter to get right, so fixing that is the obvious choice for me, and there's usually no need to shoot a stop shot at a certain speed (with obvious exceptions like safeties and one pocket).

pj
chgo
 
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Same stroke, different club

I was taught to play pool like golf by a great teacher, Jerry Johnson...OWNER, and master player, CR BILLIARDS, Coon Rapids, MN

He taught me that golfers use the same stroke but vary their clubs...he teaches to use 1 firm primary speed stroke and very English ...number the cue ball tips of English from 1-9...9 being the top.

There's enuf difficulty already in this game...u need to FIX one parameter, and adjust the other to have consistency...
The obvious choice to me is keep it firm and adjust English...
That way you will never look like a dumb-a££ saying that table screwed you!!!
(Table roll)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Of course not. That was shown by the fact that nobody was answering it.

Fixing one parameter and only varying the other greatly simplifies things - kinda like bankers hitting all shots at a certain speed. I think tip position is the harder parameter to get right, so fixing that is the obvious choice for me, and there's usually no need to shoot a stop shot at a certain speed (with obvious exceptions like safeties and one pocket).

pj
chgo
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We'll have to agree to disagree on your remark in bold. I think it was answered several times.

A. As for your technique...certainly it works for you and likely would for a great many other players. No issue with your way at all. Of course, it's not the only way...and you didn't suggest that it was. I was just presenting another method that works better for me.

B. I am POSITIVE that bankers...good ones...don't hit all their banks at the same speed but rather use speed to reduce/increase the angle of rebound as required.

(-:

EagleMan
 
I am POSITIVE that bankers...good ones...don't hit all their banks at the same speed
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Of course not, but they do it when they can - I do it when I play banks (pretty often). I don't use the same tip height for all stop shots either, but I do it when I can.

pj
chgo
 
Somebody has probably already said this, but I don't have time to read the whole thread. In order to be proficient at the game, you need to be able to shoot stop shots at a wide range of speeds. Obviously, if you simply need to stop the cueball on a straight-in shot, you can use whatever spin/speed combination you are most comfortable with. Where the "stop shot" comes in especially handy, however, is when you are cutting a ball and trying to play position. Being able to make the cueball follow the tangent line on a cut shot is a critical first step in moving the cueball with precision, and you must be able to do it at firm speeds, soft speeds, and everything in between.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
Somebody has probably already said this, but I don't have time to read the whole thread. In order to be proficient at the game, you need to be able to shoot stop shots at a wide range of speeds. Obviously, if you simply need to stop the cueball on a straight-in shot, you can use whatever spin/speed combination you are most comfortable with. Where the "stop shot" comes in especially handy, however, is when you are cutting a ball and trying to play position. Being able to make the cueball follow the tangent line on a cut shot is a critical first step in moving the cueball with precision, and you must be able to do it at firm speeds, soft speeds, and everything in between.

Aaron
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Patrick's point, that he keeps patiently making, is that the intended subject of this thread is just about the underlined part. The question was what is it you're most comfortable with?
 
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