Overhanded or Underhanded

One Pocket John

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What percentage of your shots do use an underhanded stroke (like pitching a softball into a bucket) and what percentage of your shots do you use an overhanded stroke (like throwing a dart).

Or does the shot dictate which stroke to use?

Thanks :smile:

John
 
John.

I'm not sure but I think a definition of what you mean by both strokes might be benefcial.

Best Wishes & Regards,
 
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One Pocket John said:
What percentage of your shots do use an underhanded stroke (like pitching a softball into a bucket) and what percentage of your shots do you use an overhanded stroke (like throwing a dart).

Or does the shot dictate which stroke to use?

Thanks :smile:

John
Click to expand...


Forgive me if I am not understanding your questions. The only shots I can imagine you would want to use a overhand stroke on would be a bridge shot, severe masse or jump shot. Those make a very small percent of shots. I would say maybe 5%.
 
...or are you referring to wrist action? Forward/upwards flick (underhanded Bustamante whip-like action) versus rearward/downward snap (overhanded CJ Wiley tennis racket-like action)? If that's the case, I've recently gone to 90% CJ Wiley's technique. It's really working well for me, I was dubious at first, but it's a very accurate stroke.

If you're talking about something else, please do tell...............?
 
ENGLISH! said:
John.

I'm not sure but I think a definition of what you mean by both strokes might be benefitial.

Best Wishes & Regards,
Click to expand...

Writing about this stuff is tough. :frown:

Shooting the QB down the length of the table you can use two different types of stroke. One is underhanded like rolling a bowling ball down an alley.
I would assume that this type of stroke would be used with a piston type stroke and the cue tip does not come down to meet the table but stays level at the end of stroke (finish)

The other type of stroke is overhanded like throwing a baseball bending only the elbow.
I would assume that this type of stroke would be used with a pendulum type stroke where the cue tip does come down to meet the table at the end of stroke. (finish)

Sorry for the confusion in my 1st post. :smile:

John
 
Interesting question and interesting mental picture in how it relates to the pool stroke.

At least I perceive the question as one of accelerating and decelerating arm/elbow movement.

50/50
 
John,

The way you describe it, it seems to me that one would be fliping back & forth between two types of strokes or at least follow throughs/finishes. In the piston stroke the desire is to have the cue going straight back & straight into and beyond the CB again on a straight line with no arch or sawing motion. My tip does go to the cloth but only on an extended follow througth when hitting low. I also allow or perhaps make my tip come up off of an open bridge when I am trying to put dead straight roll on the ball or if trying to get extreme high english to speed ratio hitting at 1:30 or 10:30.

I could never give you an accurate percentage answer.

Best Wishes & Regards,
 
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ENGLISH! said:
John,

The way you describe it, it seems to me that one would be fliping back & forth between two types of strokes or at least follow throughs/finishes. In the piston stroke the desire is to have the cue going straight back & straight into and beyond the CB again on a straight line with no arch or sawing motion. My tip does go to the cloth but only on an extended follow througth when hitting low. I also allow or perhaps make my tip come up off of an open bridge when I am trying to put dead straight roll on the ball or if trying to get extreme high english to speed ratio hitting at 1:30 or 10:30.

I could never give you an accurate percentage answer.

Best Wishes & Regards,
Click to expand...

Thanks Rick

John
 
One Pocket John said:
What percentage of your shots do use an underhanded stroke (like pitching a softball into a bucket) and what percentage of your shots do you use an overhanded stroke (like throwing a dart).

Or does the shot dictate which stroke to use?

Thanks :smile:

John
Click to expand...

So far your question makes no sense to me. Is it possible for you to post a video of each?

The dart grip is often used for masse shots. It is also used for shots with the mechanical bridge. It has the little finger closest to the tip and the thumb closer to the butt plate. Is that what you really mean by "overhanded"?

There was someone who made a brief appearance on RSB a long time ago who recommended breaking with a reversed (dart) grip. So far as I know, he was confused and mistaken about the usefulness of that technique but then look at Fosbury.
 
One Pocket John said:
Writing about this stuff is tough. :frown:

Shooting the QB down the length of the table you can use two different types of stroke. One is underhanded like rolling a bowling ball down an alley.
I would assume that this type of stroke would be used with a piston type stroke and the cue tip does not come down to meet the table but stays level at the end of stroke (finish)

The other type of stroke is overhanded like throwing a baseball bending only the elbow.
I would assume that this type of stroke would be used with a pendulum type stroke where the cue tip does come down to meet the table at the end of stroke. (finish)

Sorry for the confusion in my 1st post. :smile:

John
Click to expand...



When and where the tip strikes the table? has no effect on where the tip struck the cue ball. If both types of strokes where equal then the cue ball would have the same reaction.

randyg
 
John,

IMHO, I do not believe one can correctly say a cue ball struct by a tipped cue stick moving in a straight line vector would have the exact same effect on the cue ball as one struck by a tipped cue stick where the tip is arching downward through the time of contact time with the ball, even IF struct at the exact same point & all else being equal.

IMHO, When the tipped cue stick strikes the ball going straight into & maintains that vector while another tipped cue stick strikes the ball at the exact same point but is arching downward during contact, the effect on the ball can not be 'exactly the same'.

IMHO, The difference might be slight but if the tip vectors are different then the result must be different. It is in every other sport or game where hitting a ball is involved. Why would hitting a pool ball be different? In other sports different follow throughs or finishes are indicative of something different that happened before contact and different causes have different effects on the ball. Again, why should hitting a pool ball be the only ball that is different? IMHO It should not be & it is not different except in the degree of the effects due to the hardness of it's make up.
That is probably why we hit it with the linear line of the implement, the cue stick, & why we put a leather cushion on the end as well.

Some will say that any difference is 'insignificant'.

I say any difference is 'significant' to me & IMHO should be significant to any serious pool player.

Just my humble opinions.

Best Wishes & Regards to you, John,
 
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One Pocket John said:
Writing about this stuff is tough. :frown:

Shooting the QB down the length of the table you can use two different types of stroke. One is underhanded like rolling a bowling ball down an alley.
I would assume that this type of stroke would be used with a piston type stroke and the cue tip does not come down to meet the table but stays level at the end of stroke (finish)

The other type of stroke is overhanded like throwing a baseball bending only the elbow.
I would assume that this type of stroke would be used with a pendulum type stroke where the cue tip does come down to meet the table at the end of stroke. (finish)

Sorry for the confusion in my 1st post. :smile:

John
Click to expand...

I'm sorry , I have absolutely no idea what your trying to explain.

Maybe open VS closed bridge ?
 
Bob Jewett said:
So far your question makes no sense to me. Is it possible for you to post a video of each?

The dart grip is often used for masse shots. It is also used for shots with the mechanical bridge. It has the little finger closest to the tip and the thumb closer to the butt plate. Is that what you really mean by "overhanded"?

There was someone who made a brief appearance on RSB a long time ago who recommended breaking with a reversed (dart) grip. So far as I know, he was confused and mistaken about the usefulness of that technique but then look at Fosbury.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

I wasnt referring to the grip. I was referring to the lower arm action of throwing a dart.

Thanks for your comment

John
 
RG1 said:
He needs to reference a youtube video of these two strokes. here is a video of svb with that wrist snap shot he uses sometimes, you have look close though :) first one is at 56 second mark. Would this be something similar to the underhand stroke your talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aC2R84S0kiw&list=UULo0Kbj9BCnIvTPRO6NZvag#t=55s
Click to expand...

Hope this helps to explain what I'm trying to put into writing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIUGEavh9vA

Its a 10 ball match between Stevie Moore and Max Eberle. Watch the cue sticks.

Thanks RG1

John
 
RRfireblade said:
I'm sorry , I have absolutely no idea what your trying to explain.

Maybe open VS closed bridge ?
Click to expand...
I had to read it a few times:

Underhand vs Overhand means:

Piston vs pendulum ( not really )

Or

Shoulder pivot with long follow through vs elbow pivot with wrist flick

Or more better:

Bowling follow through (underhand) vs dart follow through (which might be why John envisioned "overhand.")

Freddie <~~~ 20% underhand?
 
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Cornerman said:
I had to read it a few times:

Underhand vs Overhand means:

Piston vs pendulum ( not really )

Or

Shoulder pivot with long follow through vs elbow pivot with wrist flick

Or more better:

Bowling follow through (underhand) vs dart follow through (which might be why John envisioned "overhand.")

Freddie <~~~ 20% underhand?
Click to expand...

Thanks Freddie

You nailed it. However, on the underhanded stroke there is no shoulder movement, only an elbow drop, maybe 4" to 6".

So would it be safe to say that you use more of a pendulum stroke?

Thanks again. I enjoy your site.

John
 
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