Interesting CTE INFO

(((Satori))) said:
Just because it is ccb does not mean that your subconscious did not make adjustments on the way down to land there.
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OR

that angels did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that leprechauns did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that gremlins did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that “the force” did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that “the black hole at the center of the galaxy” did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that "the flying spaghetti monster" did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

Your logic is sound.... I agree... :withstupid:
 
nb92 said:
OR

that angels did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that leprechauns did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that gremlins did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that “the force” did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that “the black hole at the center of the galaxy” did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

that "the flying spaghetti monster" did not make adjustments on the way down to land there...

Your logic is sound.... I agree... :withstupid:
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I am not trying to upset anyone or even say the system is a bad system.

In fact I like the system. I think it is a great way to teach a player to aim. If I were just starting out I would probrably use the system myself but I have a system that works for me already.

My logic is sound though. Common Sense will tell you that 5 visuals X 2 pivots are not enough ways to line up a shot in order to make all of the cut shots available to the right or to the left which ever the case may be.
 
(((Satori))) said:
I am not trying to upset anyone or even say the system is a bad system.

In fact I like the system. I think it is a great way to teach a player to aim. If I were just starting out I would probrably use the system myself but I have a system that works for me already.

My logic is sound though. Common Sense will tell you that 5 visuals X 2 pivots are not enough ways to line up a shot in order to make all of the cut shots available to the right or to the left which ever the case may be.
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Everything is cool... and my comment was not pro or con on the system discussion it was on the logic...

my statements of filling in the blank on the " does not mean that ... did not make adjustments" was just saying that yes if you believe something (via common sense, faith, political propaganda, etc..) then you believe it.

and it is just as logically sound to say that angels or gremlins make adjustments if you believe it to be true

Common Sense would tell you that gravity does not curve space...
however it does ..... I think the proof took 20 years after the theory to demonstrate

this type of discussion has been going for about 15 years so maybe in the near future there will be evidence one way or the other...
 
JB Cases:
To me pure feel is groping around blindly for an answer.
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Sorry for your handicap - guess that's why some players need aiming systems.

pj
chgo
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JB Cases:
I am sad that you seem to feel some major need to put people down who like system aiming. That to me is a handicap of character.
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So maybe your character will improve if you stop trying to belittle aiming by feel.

pj <- not holding my breath on the character improvement
chgo
 
(((Satori))) said:
Just because it is ccb does not mean that your subconscious did not make adjustments on the way down to land there.
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Yep I also have the same issue - I mean for Pro One you need a visual sweep to reach the CCB, and you need to move left or right of CTEL during that visual sweep: but how much to move left or right exactly? Probably subconscious helps here?
Many times I do it right and the shot goes perfectly, but I still miss it from time to time and probably the visual sweep was done incorrectly...
 
Satori:
Just because it is ccb does not mean that your subconscious did not make adjustments on the way down to land there.
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mristea:
Yep I also have the same issue - I mean for Pro One you need a visual sweep to reach the CCB, and you need to move left or right of CTEL during that visual sweep: but how much to move left or right exactly? Probably subconscious helps here?
Many times I do it right and the shot goes perfectly, but I still miss it from time to time and probably the visual sweep was done incorrectly...
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Hard to believe this is still a question in anybody's mind - it's the first thing pointed out about these "ball park" systems whenever they come up: they're just more elaborate frameworks for aiming by feel. To verify that all you need is to watch system users (and sellers) tap dance away whenever the topic comes up.

pj
chgo
 
JB Cases said:
Have you ever asked yourself what is "feel" and how does it play into tasks?

To me pure feel is groping around blindly for an answer.

When a beginner asks you how to aim a shot what do you tell them? Just feel it? Point your cue at the ball? Turn your body that direction?

No, most of us will use ghost ball to attempt to give them a set of instructions that they can follow. See this ball, line it up to the pocket, now imagine another ball behind that one in line with the pocket, now line up the cue ball with that imaginary ball and put your cue down on that line.

Is that "feel"?

Of course it isn't. It's a set of instructions that a person should follow to be able to put their cue on the shot line.

The feel part of it is the estimation that occurs when they are asked to imagine the ghost ball and find it's center and line up to that. All other methods of aiming are attempting to reduce this guessing by allowing more objective references.

And the more objective references the less "feel" is needed at the front end, finding the shot line and the more it can be employed on the shot end, which is where the fine fine tuning is done to cinch the shot.

I don't know about most of you but I certainly used to get down on shots and have no confidence whatsoever that I was on the right line. That's right, I would not be sure that I had the cue ball aimed at the object ball correctly. This then affected my execution forcing me to try to throw balls in which then affected my position play as the act of throwing balls in limited where I could send the cue ball.

The result was inconsistency that manifested itself into either balls made with no position OR balls missed with perfect position. Or balls missed AND no position either.

Now when I get down on the shot I am totally confident that the line is right, no feel needed. The downside is that now it's much too easy to throw balls OUT of the pocket with a poor stroke. But at least I know that this is the problem and am not unsure about whether it was the aim or the stroke or both.

Anyway, to me feel runs the spectrum from totally clueless groping to a highly developed understanding. The player who takes the mechanical and objective method and spends enough time making it an unconscious part of their game is the one with the highest sense of feel who can play with the right amount of touch where lesser players have no idea how he makes the ball move that way.
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Per CJ Wiley, whom you seem to admire greatly:
When all is said and done pool is a creative game played with feel and touch, the eyes are used to establish the required information for each shot.

I've never heard a champion talk about winning a tournament or match because their "eyes were good that day." They will comment on how good their feel/touch was because that's the "difference that makes the difference."​
 
(((Satori))) said:
Just because it is ccb does not mean that your subconscious did not make adjustments on the way down to land there.
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:) lol Pj i think your a regular on "Dancing with the stars"

Now satori, my goal before i even start the game is to be at ccb with the system i shoot. So when I have picked up the correct lines, my "alignment" will be squared up to the cue ball. Now the next move for me is to move to ccb. I dont see any subconscious adjustment needed to place my cue at ccb. It is a pretty simple movement for me anyways.

Now if you and or PJ have any other question that you are unsure about regarding the cte/pro1 system, feel free to post them here and I will gladly help you both out on understanding how cte/pro1 works.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Hard to believe this is still a question in anybody's mind - it's the first thing pointed out about these "ball park" systems whenever they come up: they're just more elaborate frameworks for aiming by feel. To verify that all you need is to watch system users (and sellers) tap dance away whenever the topic comes up.

pj
chgo
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I quit playing for a while and these systems are new to me. It does not surprise me that what I said has already been discussed.
 
RG1 said:
:) lol Pj i think your a regular on "Dancing with the stars"

Now satori, my goal before i even start the game is to be at ccb with the system i shoot. So when I have picked up the correct lines, my "alignment" will be squared up to the cue ball. Now the next move for me is to move to ccb. I dont see any subconscious adjustment needed to place my cue at ccb. It is a pretty simple movement for me anyways.

Now if you and or PJ have any other question that you are unsure about regarding the cte/pro1 system, feel free to post them here and I will gladly help you both out on understanding how cte/pro1 works.
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How far is your bridge from the cue ball? How far left or right of the cte line does your brindge land? Both of those make a difference in your line of aim.
 
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(((Satori))) said:
How far is your bridge from the cue ball? How far left or right of cute line do you land? Both of those make a difference in your line of aim.
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I know Stan Shuffett says bridge length is not an issue shooting pro1 in his dvd, I personally never had an issue with bridge length shooting manual cte either. For me it is a non issue. I have also heard other users say the same thing. Well if I use manual cte I will land a half tip offset from the vertical axis of the cue ball and if I use pro1 I will just land at ccb.
 
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RG1 said:
I know Stan Shuffett says bridge length is not an issue shooting pro1 in his dvd, I personally never had an issue with bridge length shooting manual cte either. For me it is a none issue and I have also heard users say the same thing. Well if I use manual cte I will land a half tip offset from the vertical axis of the cue ball and if I use pro1 I will just go straight to ccb.
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I disagree that bridge length is not an issue in using pro one.

Let's use a straight in shot as an example. Let's say you set your visuals for a right pro one pivot. Your eyes are suppose to lead right of the cte line and your body will follow which will land your bridge on the right side of the cte line right?

If you are picturing this straight in shot example correctly then you will realize that the cte line is not straight like the shot is. It runs at an angle from the center of the cue ball to the right edge of the object ball. When you drop down on the right side of the cte line to find ccb your bridge distance will make a huge difference in where you aim. The longer your bridge is the farther right you are going to aim when you find ccb as long as you stay the same distance right of cte line because the line keeps angling more and more to your left the further back you go.
 
you have to remember the ctel and aiming line are visual lines. Even though the ctel looks very close to line you should be cueing on, dont use it. I will help you. Once you pick up the two lines and your comfortable that you did it correctly your alignment will be squared to the cue ball (your actual body will not be literally squared to the cue ball, but your alignment will) now you just do a rotation (a pivot is no called a rotation) to center cue ball or to the half tip offset position if your using manual cte which is what you should be using in the beginning.
 
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RG1 said:
you have to remember the ctel and aiming line are visual lines. Even though the ctel looks very close to line you should be cueing on, dont use it. I will help you. Once you pick up the two lines and your comfortable that you did it correctly your alignment will be squared to the cue ball (your actual body will not be literally be squared to the cue ball, but your alignment will) now you just do a rotation (a pivot is no called a rotation) to center cue ball or to the half tip offset position if your using manual cte which is what you should be using in the beginning.
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Let me help you. Watch ch. 13 again.
 
This is where your problem is :) you don't drop down on the right side of the ctel. Once your comfortable that you have picked up the correct two lines and your position is set, those two lines are now meaningless. You now just focus on rotating to a half tip offset position or ccb if using pro1.

Now i am not going into detail as if an instructor would, i don’t really have the patients for that and there is only so much cte/pro1 info i will put out on this site. I learned the entire system on my own from stans dvd #1.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
champ, why do you keep changing identities?

pj
chgo
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????

If your interested in learning about cte/pro1, feel free to ask a question or discuss any answer I have posted here? If your not knowledgeable enough to engage in a cte discussion, there is no harm in just following along and learning along the way. I am sure there are many people inexperienced like yourself following this. :)
 
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