Interesting CTE INFO

This is where your problem is :) you don't drop down on the right side of the ctel. Once your comfortable that you have picked up the correct two lines and your position is set, those two lines are now meaningless. You now just focus on rotating to a half tip offset position or ccb if using pro1.

Now i am not going into detail as if an instructor would, i don’t really have the patients for that and there is only so much cte/pro1 info i will put out on this site. I learned the entire system on my own from stans dvd #1.

As I said earlier, center cue ball can be found from slightly different angles when dropping down from the same visuals depending on where the bridge hand lands.

Stan teaches to lead with your eyes to the left or right of the ctel and the body will follow. He is leaving his visuals with his eyes and rotating down into the shot. When dropping into the shot your subconscious plays a role on exactly where your bridge lands.

I too learned from watching his video and I can see that he adjust his feet, moves his head, & rotates to slightly different angles many times during his drop down into the shot and each of these movements will affect his bridge location and final line of aim when at ccb.
 
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If your interested in learning about cte/pro1, feel free to ask a question or discuss any answer I have posted here? If your not knowledgeable enough to engage in a cte discussion, there is no harm in just following along and learning along the way. I am sure there are many people inexperienced like yourself following this. :)

Hey Champ! Sup with you?

I gotta confess that your incomprehensible quote describing CTE is hilarious: "There are only 5 lines of aim and not 6 and a grand total of 9, if you dont count the straight in twice and not 11."

BTW, say Hi to your alter-ego pablocruz. :)
 
As I said earlier, center cue ball can be found from slightly different angles when dropping down from the same visuals depending on where the bridge hand lands.


Stan teaches to lead with your eyes to the left or right of the ctel and the body will follow. He is leaving his visuals with his eyes and rotating down into the shot. When dropping into the shot your subconscious plays a role on exactly where your bridge lands.

I too learned from watching his video and I can see that he adjust his feet, moves his head, & rotates to slightly different angles many times during his drop down into the shot and each of these movements will affect his bridge location and final line of aim when at ccb.

I have been trying to explain to you how to correctly find ccb but your not grasping what i am trying to say :) I am guessing you have no idea what i am talking about when i say "your alignment is squared up to the cue ball" correct?
 
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I have been trying to explain to you how to correctly find ccb but your not grasping what i am trying to say :) I am guessing you have no idea what i am talking about when i say "your alignment is squared up to the cue ball" correct?

It is clear to me that you are a troll. Carry on.
 
My logic is sound though. Common Sense will tell you that 5 visuals X 2 pivots are not enough ways to line up a shot in order to make all of the cut shots available to the right or to the left which ever the case may be.

Give me an example of a cut shot that one would actually attempt in a game situation that you don't think can be made with Pro One.
 
This is how I pivot (as a right handed player).

Right Pivot - I find the two lines, and then just move straight into ccb.

Left Pivot - Same thing except when I'm moving into ccb I move my upper body to the right. Think of how you would do a manual left pivot where the tip moves to the right to get to ccb. I'm doing the same thing except with my eyes and upper body.

Easy.
 
John,

I have asked myself what feel is. When it comes to aiming I believe it is when you rely on the subconscious mind to guide you into the correct line of aim.

I believe that the power in Stan's system is the ability to teach players to play by feel. He teaches guys to connect, drop down, and believe they are aligned without need for "aiming" or looking to make sure they are aligned for a halfball hit, or whatever. No need for adjustments once they are down after they "aim". Let me explain.

I think you are way off when you say that feel is the visualization of the ghost ball. Visualization is not a subconscious act. You could make the arguement that it is easier for you to align the shot by drawing, with visualization, imaginary straight lines from center to edge and edge to a,b,c to align your shot but I could make the same argument that it is easier for me to align from cue ball to ghost ball. Neither of is would be right because it is just our opinion of which method of alignment works best. If you can't see ghostball then by all means use center to edge but you won't convince me that your method of alignment is more accurate. I know for a fact that I align just fine with ghostball, Stevie aligns just fine with pro-one, and apparently Darren aligns just fine with SEE. They all work IMO.

Here is where Pro-one is feel as well as the way I aim. It is when you drop into your shot. Let me ask you, do you believe that all cut shots to the right for example can be made with the small amount of visuals pro-one provides and only be dropping in with a pro one left pivot or pro one right pivot, without the help from your subconscious mind in assisting minute adjustments?

That's right, when you align by using your visuals you are putting yourself in an approximate position and it is the work of your subconscious that aligns you as you drop into the shot. Your subconscious works to carry out what you have pictured in your head so if you believe you are aligned and can picture the shot going in then you are most of the way there.

Here is another thing we disagree on though. You think every miss while using pro-one is because of a bad stroke. I would claim that a beginner using pro one is going to make some mistakes dropping in on line because his subconscious needs more programming. With time you will succeed with pro one consistantly though but I can do the same by putting myself in line using a ghostball method.

I could make pro one work but it would take the same programming errors you would make because dropping in at the angle of pro one visuals is slightly different. I have already fine tuned my method of feel. In pro one you come in at more of an angle as opposed to me planting my back foot on the line of the shot and my head is right in line too. While my body pivots into the shot my head comes straight down because the visuals we started with are slightly different. You say you see people drop in like pro one and it might look to you like I am using pro one if you saw me play but in fact things are slightly different.

If pro-one works for you though and it is something you like, I say do it.

Of course we all do what "works" for us. So we can dispense with that caveat at this point.

I will just say that I fundamentally disagree with you about what feel is. I would elaborate but this is Stan's thread so I will let him make whatever comments he thinks should address the question at this point.

The observation that people drop in like they are using pro-one is only my thoughts after intently watching how pros get down on the shot. Of course they aren't using "ProOne" and most haven't heard of it. My point was and remains that CTE/ProOne forces the user to adopt a motion that is very similar to the motion that many pros employ when they are getting down on the ball. Whether that is significant or not is not known but to me it is a reinforcing coincidence to notice this. Maybe a little confirmation bias thrown in but it wouldn't surprise me to find that the biomechanics of top level pros nested nicely with what ProOne/Cte forces the user to do.
 
So maybe your character will improve if you stop trying to belittle aiming by feel.

pj <- not holding my breath on the character improvement
chgo

I didn't belittle it Pat. Is that your fundamental problem. I said feel exists on a spectrum from ignorant groping, as the completely beginner at the pool room yesterday struggled with, to refined measuring as someone highly trained employs.

Total Guessing at one end and Educated Guessing at the other end.

What you call Aiming By Feel lies closer to the to Educated Guessing end of the spectrum because you have developed your sensibility through the application of the Ghost Ball method and trial and error.

It's inevitable that if you attempt a task enough times with an adjustment each time eventually you figure out the right way to do it.

Now I can set you down with some leather tools and a picture of a flower and say put that flower on the leather and leave you alone and when I come back hours later it's doubtful that you will have made much progress. When I show you the steps however then I can come back hours later and you will have progressed with a reproduction of the flower.

Is that so difficult for you to understand that knowledge is helpful?

Now, what if instead of me teaching you to tool the flower according to the standard method I instead gave you someone who had been doing it for 40 years and whom had developed much better methods to tool. That person could teach you a better way to do it and in the same few hours you would know more and be better than what I could teach you.

Furthermore that knowledge would stay with you and allow you to build on it.

OR

You could decide to skip any instruction at all and go along blindly trying to tool the flower. You might end up being the greatest tooler ever having discovered many interesting techniques or you might very well end up just being a fidgety hack who doesn't understand basic backgrounding.

That's how I see "feel" in pool.

Last night I watched a young woman trying to learn. The poor girl set up a line of balls using each as the cue ball and tried to shoot them into the pocket with about a 25% success rate. Terrible bridge, no stroke, awful stance and worst of all being advised by four people who themselves can't play. I watched this for about ten minutes and had to go over and help her.

I fixed her bridge, taught her the basic stroking mechanics and got her stroking on the kitchen line. Then I got her shooting a ball on the kitchen line. She wouldn't listen on the stance preferring instead to be shooting one ball into another. At least I was able to get her pointed in the right direction. I suspect you would have done the same and not left her to flounder about with no clue as to what she was doing.
 
This is how I pivot (as a right handed player).

Right Pivot - I find the two lines, and then just move straight into ccb.

Left Pivot - Same thing except when I'm moving into ccb I move my upper body to the right. Think of how you would do a manual left pivot where the tip moves to the right to get to ccb. I'm doing the same thing except with my eyes and upper body.

Easy.

Beiberlrv, thanks and here is further description and a set up for CB OB for experiencing right and left PRO ONE visual sweeps.

PRO ONE VISUAL SWEEP / RIGHT AND LEFT

Zero angle shot for 2 diamonds of separation for a right handed player: reverse for lefty
Set CB OB up out into the table. The OB should not be very close to a pocket.
LCBE TO A
CCB TO ROBE
This is a very simple visual alignment.
Do NOT position your eyes directly behind either the aim line or the CTE line.
Your eyes are certainly not on a center to center alignment but are offset from the actual shot line. A rotation is needed to pocket the ball. So, for a right PRO ONE visual sweep do the following.

Bend right over to CCB as you bring your cue in from left to right for a visual sweep to CCB. There can be a feeling that your eyes move straight to the shot but they actually move "right" to the shot line.
This is a very natural movement that most of you are already doing.

Now from the same position of 2 diamonds separation, if your set up allows, move the OB 3.5 maybe 4 inches to the right.
SAME VISUALS
This time, instead of a feeling of moving straight to the shot line or just bending over to shoot with eyes moving right. You will need to do a movement that will move your eyes left to connect with the shot line.

Simply allow your left shoulder to start turning and rotate directly into CCB. Your eyes will move to the left. It is ok to tweak your stance as you turn. Focus on CCB, not the OB so much. FIND EXACT CCB AND SHOOT.

Stan Shuffett
 
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Of course we all do what "works" for us. So we can dispense with that caveat at this point.

I will just say that I fundamentally disagree with you about what feel is. I would elaborate but this is Stan's thread so I will let him make whatever comments he thinks should address the question at this point.

The observation that people drop in like they are using pro-one is only my thoughts after intently watching how pros get down on the shot. Of course they aren't using "ProOne" and most haven't heard of it. My point was and remains that CTE/ProOne forces the user to adopt a motion that is very similar to the motion that many pros employ when they are getting down on the ball. Whether that is significant or not is not known but to me it is a reinforcing coincidence to notice this. Maybe a little confirmation bias thrown in but it wouldn't surprise me to find that the biomechanics of top level pros nested nicely with what ProOne/Cte forces the user to do.

If you intently watch a little closer you will see that most pros drop down a little different than pro one. It is fundamentally correct to find the line of the shot and align your head straight above it and never leave that line on the way down. Pro one starts you off of that line So that you can sight cte and then has you sweep into the shot line from an angle.
 
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If you intently watch a little closer you will see that most pros drop down a little different than pro one. It is fundamentally correct to find the line of the shot and align your head straight above it and never leave that line on the way down. Pro one starts you off of that line So that you can sight cte and has you drop into it.

It is not common at all for Pros to move straight into to a shot line.

Stan Shuffett
 
A great video to watch that explains putting your head on the line and dropping into the shot properly is C.J.'s new video.

He talks clearly about this in his chapter discussing the two planes.
 
Here is a youtube video of a fundamentally sound shot approach that explains how I believe to be right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wafKOsa8-M&list=UUqyXIYMLnnnSvTvJP8bt9jQ&index=8

That was as PRO ONE as PRO ONE can be.
Great video!!

He was fumbling with words because I think he was surprised that eyes were not on the shot line at ball address. There is nothing wrong with putting your eyes on the shot line during your study of a shot. I assure you he had proper PRO ONE visuals and then he did a visual right sweep.

Pros do not get on the line and move straight in your video is a perfect example of what I have been advocating.

Appreciate that,

Stan Shuffett
 
That was as PRO ONE as PRO ONE can be.
Great video!!

He was fumbling with words because I think he was surprised that eyes were not on the shot line at ball address. There is nothing wrong with putting your eyes on the shot line during your study of a shot. I assure you he had proper PRO ONE visuals and then he did a visual right sweep.

Pros do not get on the line and move straight in your video is a perfect example of what I have been advocating.

Appreciate that,

Stan Shuffett

If you say so.

You're Welcome.
 
A great video to watch that explains putting your head on the line and dropping into the shot properly is C.J.'s new video.

He talks clearly about this in his chapter discussing the two planes.

Cj uses CB OB alignments that allow him a connection to the shot line.
We discussed this at length. Now maybe he changed to moving straight in on a line but I do not think so. Cj was thrilled to see the PRO ONE movements and declared to me that was what he did when he was in full warrior mode.

Stan Shuffett
 
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