what does it really take to be an A or B player?

desertshark

desertshark

Racks on racks on racks
Silver Member
I'm a good player just started APA and don't have 10 matches to be rated yet (according to the website) I'm 50% at 9-ball and 67% at 8-ball (lost one game so far). I'm finding my groove though. I'm also #2 in standing for "top gun."

I want to finish up this season with a 6-7 ranking overall. Obviously I need to kick it up at 9-ball, lower my innings for both and really start running racks.

My question is, what does it take to be an A or B player? Consistency? More drills? More practice?

Keep in mind, after this session I want to play BCA but I would like to be higher in rank before I go over to BCA.
 
I like what CJ has said, "The desire for perfection" and "Working on the weak parts of your game that other players ignore for themselves."

You wrote, "lower my innings for both and really start running racks". It's safety play focus that can take someone like you up a number of two in ranking right away. Just spoke with a fellow I'm giving lessons to on the phone last night. He learned a few simple safety techniques and was put up in ranking quickly for the victories.
 
Lessons

desertshark said:
I'm a good player just started APA and don't have 10 matches to be rated yet (according to the website) I'm 50% at 9-ball and 67% at 8-ball (lost one game so far). I'm finding my groove though. I'm also #2 in standing for "top gun."

I want to finish up this season with a 6-7 ranking overall. Obviously I need to kick it up at 9-ball, lower my innings for both and really start running racks.

My question is, what does it take to be an A or B player? Consistency? More drills? More practice?

Keep in mind, after this session I want to play BCA but I would like to be higher in rank before I go over to BCA.
Click to expand...

The best and quickest way to improve is to take lessons.
 
Thanks Matt. At least I know my weaknesses and where I need to improve.

Don I am scheduled for lessons on the 17th, but I believe you may have missed my question. What does it take to be an A or B player? A blanket answer of take lessons isn't addressing the question. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just seeking an answer.
 
desertshark said:
I'm a good player just started APA and don't have 10 matches to be rated yet (according to the website) I'm 50% at 9-ball and 67% at 8-ball (lost one game so far). I'm finding my groove though. I'm also #2 in standing for "top gun."

I want to finish up this season with a 6-7 ranking overall. Obviously I need to kick it up at 9-ball, lower my innings for both and really start running racks.

My question is, what does it take to be an A or B player? Consistency? More drills? More practice?

Keep in mind, after this session I want to play BCA but I would like to be higher in rank before I go over to BCA.
Click to expand...

Well, good player, it all comes down to a strong work ethic. But the way you improve depends on your personality and what you respond to. You have to find the winning formula for yourself. For example, some players are great observers, and when they see a player do something that interests them, they take it to the practice table and work on it over and over until they figure it out.

Some players learn best when they are under pressure. They will continually jump into competition and will learn how to improve by getting beat up by their opponents. That's extreme learning under fire, but it does have it's merits.

Other players need a structured format to follow or they get confused and frustrated. They may buy a book and start at chapter 1.

Other players like to simply fly by the seat of their pants. They will just play and play and play and let their sub-conscious work it out.

One thing is for sure: You need to put in lots of table time. There's no shortcut there.

What do you like about the learning process? What interests you? What feels more like fun than work? Those questions will help you figure out your personal formula for success.
 
Do what 99.99 percent of the players wont do !!!!

Take lessons from a pro, and work your ass off !!!

And remember, you can't learn to speak italian unless you surround yourself and immerse yourself in italian speakers.... IE move to italy !
 
Yoda4962 said:
Take lessons from a pro, and work your ass off !!!

And remember, you can't learn to speak italian unless you surround yourself and immerse yourself in italian speakers.... IE move to italy !
Click to expand...

What does "work your ass off" mean to you?
 
Since I started playing again in October, I've averaged about 4 hours a day on the table. Most of time being weekends with 6-8 hours straight playing the ghost, friends or other pool hall junkies. I run a lot of drills, 9-ball, 10-ball and 8-ball of a strong spread and ball in hand to practice looking for run out patterns. With 9&10 ball I average 4 out of 5 run outs. 8 ball is a little less as getting shape around the non-object balls or I knock one in the way of my run out pattern.

I am due for lessons this month but I guess I'm looking for a firm grasp on what I need to achieve to be a better player. I had issues awhile back with long corner shots. I bought a set of the Elephant practice balls and spent 5 hours straight with them using them from all angles. I switched back to regular cue balls and noticed my effectiveness of making those shots improved ten fold.

I play in Phoenix and don't really get to see any pros let alone play with any. The closest I have is an APA rated 8 but I rarely see him playing outside of league but I really want to play him and analyze his patterns, English usage, aiming system and his bank shots. The guy is a great player and I would like to be on his level and eventually win a few games against him. But mostly pick his brain to learn more.

I've played the 5&6's on my 9-ball team and beat them in practice and casual play.
I'be played the 6&7's on my 8-ball team and beat them in practice and casual play too.

Hopefully that rant helps lol
 
“A” players can be set apart from others players by their ability to control the cue ball. When you watch the top players they seldom get out of line. After many years of not being able to run racks I think it has finally occurred to me that positive control of every movement of the cue ball is the key.

There are many opinions about how one should play pool. Few of them emphasize the idea that however you play you must be very intentionally forcing the cue ball to do exactly what you want it to do.

Contrary to many instructional schemes, and based on my observations of excellent players, the top players have a firm grip on the cue stick when contact is made. They nearly always have complete follow through and hold the stick in position until well after cue ball-object ball contact is made. Pros seem to use a small amount of inside English on many shots to kill over spin and cue ball angle of return. Most of the top players appear to use only the English required to get position.

I think that if you want to be a top level player you must learn excellent control of the cue ball. Study the top players and watch how little they move the cue ball after contact unless required. I find it fascinating that when I predict the position a top level player will try to get that when I am wrong I usually err on the side of too much cue ball movement. They move the cue ball as little as possible and set their positions so this can be accomplished for the next shot.

For excellent players, it is all about positive cue ball control. I think that 75% of your time should be spent on cue ball control and 25% on aiming and pocketing. I am sure there are those who will disagree.

If you can't watch the pros anyplace else there are many videos on the internet. Type in your favorite pro player and click on the videos until you find matches that last about one hour or so. Then study their cue ball control trying to predict what they will do next.

While there are many people who disagree with me, I think an intermediate (or better) player can improve their play the most by playing the Ghost. Play the shots that you should play to win. Every time you miss, practice that shot until it is mastered. In this way you discover you real weaknesses and practice that which you really need to master to win matches.
 
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Thanks Joe! That makes alot of sense and cue ball control actually clicks with my main reason for failure. You just gave me alot to think about! Thanks again!
 
i just asked that question last night from a friend at the pool hall who runs rack after rack of 9 ball.....so i ask, "you have watched me shoot, what can i do to shoot like you?"....the answer was very simple, his reply, "practice and lots of it". i think that about does it. i agree with taking lessons etc, but without putting in the time, you won't "get there". (IMHAO)
 
I think I will chime in...

Our pool playing level is based on three things: Our Decision making, Our Aim, and Our Delivery.

Our decisions making come from experience. The more we play, the more decisions we have made. This is also what typically is observed from "watching Pro's play". We observe their decision making and marvel at their cue ball control. Many pool books are also written about this subject matter, one quick example that I mention is 99 Critical Shots.

Our Aim is a function of our own hand-eye coordination that can be refined with practice, and is why there are several aiming discussions. Books and watching Pro's will not help your aim. However eye patterns can reduce our aiming error. There are several threads here on AZ about eye patterns

Our delivery is our stroke and why almost every response to "what can I do" goes to the "get lessons" response. There is a LOT going on that is difficult to do without seeing it. There are options, many prefer using video because it is efficient and gives the student immediate feedback and buyin on what needs to be corrected. Instructors here give some general feedback from posted videos but it isn't as easy to see every aspect from online.

If we have control over our highly repeatable delivery, consistently make good decisions, then the aiming is just a function of lots of perfect practice.

Training drills are the fundamental method of perfect practice and can make the learning process much quicker. These drills should include developing speed control amongst other stroke and skill development exercises.

In my opinion - The biggest difference that separate the B from the A players is their stroke consistency (and thus their ability to control speed and pocket balls).
The biggest thing that separates C players from B players is their decision making.
The biggest thing that separates C players from those below is their aiming.
Are there other things, such as balanced stance, bridge, etc. that separate skill levels?Yes, but those are going to be more case by case scenarios.

Hope that helps!
 
desertshark said:
Since I started playing again in October, I've averaged about 4 hours a day on the table. Most of time being weekends with 6-8 hours straight playing the ghost, friends or other pool hall junkies. I run a lot of drills, 9-ball, 10-ball and 8-ball of a strong spread and ball in hand to practice looking for run out patterns. With 9&10 ball I average 4 out of 5 run outs. 8 ball is a little less as getting shape around the non-object balls or I knock one in the way of my run out pattern.

I am due for lessons this month but I guess I'm looking for a firm grasp on what I need to achieve to be a better player. I had issues awhile back with long corner shots. I bought a set of the Elephant practice balls and spent 5 hours straight with them using them from all angles. I switched back to regular cue balls and noticed my effectiveness of making those shots improved ten fold.

I play in Phoenix and don't really get to see any pros let alone play with any. The closest I have is an APA rated 8 but I rarely see him playing outside of league but I really want to play him and analyze his patterns, English usage, aiming system and his bank shots. The guy is a great player and I would like to be on his level and eventually win a few games against him. But mostly pick his brain to learn more.

I've played the 5&6's on my 9-ball team and beat them in practice and casual play.
I'be played the 6&7's on my 8-ball team and beat them in practice and casual play too.

Hopefully that rant helps lol
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If you can run out 80% of the time at 10 ball, you don't need to ask any questions in here.
 
I'm still rated a 3 by APA. For 1 I started as a 4 and lost 1 match. Tonight I had to play twice because we were a man short. I played a 6 first and won my 2 games ended the match in 9 innings. The second game I played a 4 and won both mine in 6 innings partially due to a loose rack break on the second game. I lost the lag on the first.

I did get a few tips on ball control. On the 9 foot tables I play on, the green is really fast. I tend to over compensate and use a lot of low English which throws my shot a bit. I played 10 ball to practice for about a half hour before playing. Break, ball in hand, scope the table and run.

I played 5 10-ball games and only Hung myself twice. I missed once so I successfully ran out 4 times.

I played one of our 6's and didn't do as well in practice. We played 5 games and I lost twice.

I have realized my hot nights are happening more often than not.
9-ball on bar boxes I'm 50%.

I guess I'm more frustrated I'm not doing as good in 9-ball.
 
ronscuba said:
Played 5 ten ball games on a 9 foot table, ran out 4 times, and you are an APA 3 ?
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Since I don't have 10 matches under my belt for 8 or 9 ball I was brought in as a 4.
Since I lost one match it dropped me to a 3. Until I have 10 games, I won't be re-ranked from what the division coordinator on the 8-ball league said.

This adds to my frustration. Out of 5 matches played so far I've won all but 1 so I'm at 80% with an average of 10-12 innings per match due to unintentional safeties played by my opponents.

I'm frustrated with the APA scoring system, unfortunately until I get 10 matches down, I'll stay a 3. Even after beating a 6 last night in 9 innings.

Which is kind of why my signature says "10 minus 15" I know I'm better than the APA computer system thinks I am lol
 
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I don't know about your league, but our LO re-rates us every week, regardless of how many matches have been played.
It is based on your best 10% of your last 20 matches.
Until you hit 20, its based on the best 50%, although when total matches is odd, you will have 1 more match than 50%.

To summarize: your first match was a loss, and you dropped. it is typical to always drop if first match is a loss. Now you have 3 matches, your skill level will be based on the 2 better matches. Which based on your post should make you a SL5 next week (based on 15 innings/4 games won). If you were to loose next match, it would not affect your skill level (assuming they do change it the way my LO does) because it would not be part of your better 50%.

8 Ball only:
For estimated skill levels, 7's are under 2 innings. 6s are 2-3, 5s are 3-4, 4s and 4-5, 3s are 5-7, and 2s are 7+. This number is calculated by total innings - marked defense / games won. The games won is important... as it is not games played. btw the skill level you play against has absolutely no bearing to your score. It is simply innings, defense, and games won (with a caveat for anti-sandbagging called implied score)

9 ball is calculated differently, but based on your average balls pocketed per inning. Games won has no affect, nor does your opponents skill level.
 
Ok that makes me feel a bit better. So 9 ball is based on balls per inning? So if I'm hot and run the table to my points, I'll do better rather than playing a lot of safeties and dragging it out?

boyersj said:
I don't know about your league, but our LO re-rates us every week, regardless of how many matches have been played.
It is based on your best 10% of your last 20 matches.
Until you hit 20, its based on the best 50%, although when total matches is odd, you will have 1 more match than 50%.

To summarize: your first match was a loss, and you dropped. it is typical to always drop if first match is a loss. Now you have 3 matches, your skill level will be based on the 2 better matches. Which based on your post should make you a SL5 next week (based on 15 innings/4 games won). If you were to loose next match, it would not affect your skill level (assuming they do change it the way my LO does) because it would not be part of your better 50%.

8 Ball only:
For estimated skill levels, 7's are under 2 innings. 6s are 2-3, 5s are 3-4, 4s and 4-5, 3s are 5-7, and 2s are 7+. This number is calculated by total innings - marked defense / games won. The games won is important... as it is not games played. btw the skill level you play against has absolutely no bearing to your score. It is simply innings, defense, and games won (with a caveat for anti-sandbagging called implied score)

9 ball is calculated differently, but based on your average balls pocketed per inning. Games won has no affect, nor does your opponents skill level.
Click to expand...
 
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