I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. If there's one thing that really turns my stomach, it's bare tits on my back.
I'm sorry, but it has to be said. :smile:
I'm sorry, but it has to be said. :smile:
Define "going over the line" in a pool forum or any forum for that matter
- Thread starter classiccues
- Start date
- Status
So Eric, if I told you there were a bunch of people that were directly harrassed outside of this forum, by a forum member, and he has threatened to do harm to that person by any means necessary, including using the IRS, or local authorities, that would be over the line in your opinion.
JV
JV
::Sean rubs his eyes:: Did you say it twice?
-Sean <-- made you look [at your original post]
Joe,
imo, that is waaaay over the line. Whomever did something like that deserves the old testament treatment. You know, the eye for an eye thing...
Eric
If you harbor anger and resentment....you need to follow rules of civility.
If you have good will to your fellow man..............
....you don't need no stinkin' rules.
This thread needs some mood music....
https://www.google.ca/url?url=http:...e+line&usg=AFQjCNEUzWGLlVdCANsFCq5zLy_vVYif_Q
If you have good will to your fellow man..............
....you don't need no stinkin' rules.
This thread needs some mood music....
https://www.google.ca/url?url=http:...e+line&usg=AFQjCNEUzWGLlVdCANsFCq5zLy_vVYif_Q
Before I post the crux of the issues and PROVE harrasement off line.. I wrote a little diddy... You need to sing it with the music from the beverly hillbillies.
Let me tell you about a man named Jack
Making cue cases in a Florida Shack
One night he making them and then there is a knock…
It’s a G-man and he’s totally in shock
Fed that is… g-man..
G-man says you’re in a residential zone
Jack says wait, this is a hobby and its in my home
I make cases for the pool industryyyyyyyyyy
I only make them 1, 2 or 3eeeeeeeee
Cases that is… pool cue cases…
Fed says Jack you seem pretty legit
But we gotta check whenever we get a hit
Long distance number the caller ID said…
This call came from the land of the red…
Commies that is… Red China..
Jack says WOW now I know
I was online and argued with a psycho
He said his cases were better than mine
Here is the e-mail, you were wasting your time
Addios, amigo.. bye bye…
Attack someone anywhere and you should expect to be attacked anywhere. Sorry but this isn't a question of simply keeping it on the forum. The fact is that when you attack a well known person with lies, slander, defamation, and essentially harassment designed to put them on tilt and cause them to lose business then you're already over the line and you cannot reasonably expect to be left alone in any other space where you might interact.
You can't troll someone and not expect them to fight back by any means necessary. Furthermore given that any content published on a forum is subject to being erased without warning or otherwise made inaccessible such as when a thread with disparaging comments is simply closed but left up for everyone to read, then it becomes necessary sometimes to defend yourself outside the forum where you control the content, such as on a blog, on your Facebook page, through email, etc...
As well there are sometimes ways that you want to express yourself that you cannot use on a forum. Bottom line, you attack someone on the forum then don't expect to be free from engagement anywhere. Especially when you have made it your mission to mess with a person's livelihood on the forum.
Make false accusations, continually needle with snide remarks and outright lies, call people liars and cheats.....if you do these things to someone with the intention of causing them harm then why should you expect to be free of them engaging you? If you claim a person uses child and slave labor then why are you worried if they then threaten to report you to IRS for hiring illegal aliens for example?
Point being that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy once you begin a deliberate and sustained attack on a person. If they push back in other mediums then that is what you deserve for attacking them in the first place. Now having said that it would be much better if things never escalated to that point.
In the past I have gone to other mediums to defend myself. I have used rough language and been highly highly upset. I have also called people up and made peace many times. I am not proud of the times I have went off on people but I will say this and I mean it, all of those times have been in direct response to getting attacked first. And yes that sounds really childish but it's the 100% truth. When I felt pushed over the edge by the relentless attacks I would push back in other medium where I could say what I wanted to say in the way I wanted to say it.
Since I have been back on AZ I have tried really hard to stay civil in the face of constant needling and some outright attacks. I have not responded in any other place than on AZB.
Anyway, this thread is simply another attempt to harass me. I suppose I deserve a lot of it because of the way I have spoken to the attackers in the past. If I were in their shoes I would hate me as well. I just refused to cede this forum to bullies and in doing that I was overly aggressive in countering them.
Now I feel much better about my ability to handle these attacks without going off. Still feel twinges of wanting to let loose but slowly it's becoming a habit to stay calm and collected. So I say to anyone who wants to continue to attack me that they should go ahead and get it all out. Keep going until you are tired of doing it. I will answer your attacks with calm words and post factual rebuttals where needed.
I forgive you for all you have done to me in the past and I hope you can forgive my harsh words to you.
You can't troll someone and not expect them to fight back by any means necessary. Furthermore given that any content published on a forum is subject to being erased without warning or otherwise made inaccessible such as when a thread with disparaging comments is simply closed but left up for everyone to read, then it becomes necessary sometimes to defend yourself outside the forum where you control the content, such as on a blog, on your Facebook page, through email, etc...
As well there are sometimes ways that you want to express yourself that you cannot use on a forum. Bottom line, you attack someone on the forum then don't expect to be free from engagement anywhere. Especially when you have made it your mission to mess with a person's livelihood on the forum.
Make false accusations, continually needle with snide remarks and outright lies, call people liars and cheats.....if you do these things to someone with the intention of causing them harm then why should you expect to be free of them engaging you? If you claim a person uses child and slave labor then why are you worried if they then threaten to report you to IRS for hiring illegal aliens for example?
Point being that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy once you begin a deliberate and sustained attack on a person. If they push back in other mediums then that is what you deserve for attacking them in the first place. Now having said that it would be much better if things never escalated to that point.
In the past I have gone to other mediums to defend myself. I have used rough language and been highly highly upset. I have also called people up and made peace many times. I am not proud of the times I have went off on people but I will say this and I mean it, all of those times have been in direct response to getting attacked first. And yes that sounds really childish but it's the 100% truth. When I felt pushed over the edge by the relentless attacks I would push back in other medium where I could say what I wanted to say in the way I wanted to say it.
Since I have been back on AZ I have tried really hard to stay civil in the face of constant needling and some outright attacks. I have not responded in any other place than on AZB.
Anyway, this thread is simply another attempt to harass me. I suppose I deserve a lot of it because of the way I have spoken to the attackers in the past. If I were in their shoes I would hate me as well. I just refused to cede this forum to bullies and in doing that I was overly aggressive in countering them.
Now I feel much better about my ability to handle these attacks without going off. Still feel twinges of wanting to let loose but slowly it's becoming a habit to stay calm and collected. So I say to anyone who wants to continue to attack me that they should go ahead and get it all out. Keep going until you are tired of doing it. I will answer your attacks with calm words and post factual rebuttals where needed.
I forgive you for all you have done to me in the past and I hope you can forgive my harsh words to you.
John,
You refuse to see it, and all this diatribe thats fine. But you think as shown in the post, that you are the victim. Well its bullsh*t, you have gone after people for small disagreements with you. As we will demonstrate, John. You called the local authorities on Jack because you were insulted. On top of that, you did to him, what you have done to me, post an apology and I'll drop it. Thats EXTORTION. That minimizes whatever hurt you think has been done to you. Really an online apology is ok for something you now claim allows you to go after people at any cost? Really?
Now supposedly you come back a new.. well, now you leave snarky remarks in the rep area, so they really cannot be tracked. YOU INVITE the conflict as evident in those reps. Just now its a little more hidden. You still can't stay out of threads and like you've told me you'll use all my threads to to promote your product. Well now you've overstepped.
You look for forgiveness because the time for this to end, is now. But you don't want anyone to know how deep this really is.
Your posts in the other thread are offensive to the people that you have victimized with your "payback". These people come at you because of you, nothing else. Not because you're far away, not because your thinking is not in line with theirs, but because you invite it.
So tell us, what was so bad that Jack did to cause you calling Florida to shut him down? What did Eric do? What did this guy who had ONE interaction on line do for you to stalk him all over facebook and threaten him? Its one altercation, what could have been bad? The fact is YOU don't like to be argued with or questions and its YOU that needs to back off.
BTW have you read the replies... YOU ARE WRONG. ITS NOT OK TO DO.
JV
Last edited:
That was two years ago Joe. And no I don't go after people for small disagreements. Never have and never will.
Drop what? Post an apology and I will drop what? I did ask Jack several times to post an apology for falsely accusing me on this forum of importing no-name cases that he felt were copies of his designs.
ONE remark which was a totally MILD rebuke to let someone know that I know that they gamed the system and won a prize unfairly. Hardly harassment. Especially considering the work I put into that contest. And of course they can be tracked, Wedge posted the comment didn't he? He can make a screenshot and he can give anyone access to his account to see it.
It's really a stretch to consider that harassment on any level. It was merely a way to say hey what you did wasn't cool but hope you enjoy it.
I have said no such thing to you Joe. Another fabrication. What I said was that EVERY time you make a remark intended to put me down or hurt my business then you only give me a platform to further promote my products. It's true. If you make a remark that my cases are crap or that they are copies then all you do is allow me a space to rebut that with evidence to the contrary. I have thanked you for providing these opportunities. Surely you don't feel that you should be allowed to make such remarks without them being countered?
Oh please, how deep? You have made a continuous running attack on me for decades. At shows you act like nothing happened and we are buddies and then a week later you are attacking me again.
You guys were really great at putting me on tilt. Jack is awesome at the snide remark and he started a major rift with his false accusations. You lie constantly about me and my business and my products.
So yes, Joe it's very deep but in fact it's only deep because you have made it a point to attack me from every vector you could think of.
Again Joe, the attacks started on me not the other way around. I didn't attack Jack Justis, I didn't attack you, I didn't attack anyone FIRST. I don't care WHY you "came at me" the point is that you did and you all have constantly made it personal attacking me with every kind of slur you get away with.
I didn't try to shut Jack down. He called into question my licensing on the open forum and so I looked into his. Fair is fair.
Who? You don't want me to post links.
What? What guy? The guy who makes cat boxes who went off on me while I was banned saying I compete unfairly and use slave labor and toxic materials? Yeah, since I couldn't address his accusations on AZB I looked him up on facebook and addressed them there. I didn't threaten him at all.
It wasn't even an altercation. He made false comments about my business and I addressed them where it was possible to do so. I had no idea if the guy even saw them because he didn't respond. So really it's harassment to send a message expressing my counters to the points he made? Hardly.
Again if a person wants to make remarks about someone then they should not be surprised if the person they are putting down responds.
I have backed off Joe. I understand that you angry about how I have talked to you in the past. I realize that no matter how much you lied about me I should not have gone to to the same level and made it personal. That's just not professional.
For that I apologize. For anything else, as Fast Eddie said, "it's a wash". You got in plenty of licks and you can let it go or not. Your choice.
John, you can't honestly think that you're the victim here, can you? You seem to find yourself in these little online tiffs on a monthly basis. You've been banned here more than almost any other member. And frankly, whether someone says something to ruffle your feathers, responding in the way you do if not online incredibly juvenile, its borderline psychotic. The truth is, you LOVE these little online arguments. You thrive on them. I remember when Edwin Reyes passed. You had a great epiphany. You realized that life was too short for petty online arguments and you would no longer involve yourself in any. I think that probably lasted a 3 - 4 months which, frankly... I'm shocked you made it that long. You go on tilt more often, more easily, and way further than anyone on these forums.
If someone made a comment about child labor, why call the authorities on him for his labor practices? The two aren't even close to the same ball park.
If someone made a comment about child labor, why call the authorities on him for his labor practices? The two aren't even close to the same ball park.
What is this in reference to? You consider this statement to be mean? Man you are really reaching here for someone that makes tons of snide comments intended to put me down in public. I send you a comment that isn't even mean by way of rep that only you can see and this is somehow bad and harassing but when you make really mean and awful comments in public it's ok?
History has shown otherwise.
Actually John, you told Jack to apologize and you would drop your looking into Pompano Beach / Coconut Creek business opportunity, in which you reported Jack when he refused to apologize to you.
Here it is.. this is John trying to extort an apology from Jack. He subsequently called the Florida authorities and reported Jack as Jack had been visited by the locals.
Posted with permission.
JV
From: john@sterling-gaming.com
To: jjustis4@aol.com
Sent: 7/27/2010 12:10:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Zoning
Are you sure you are zoned to be running a manufacturing and retail business from your house? You may want to check with the city on that.
According to my correspondence with the nice folks at the city hall in Coconut Creek they don't allow manufacturing businesses of any kind to be run out of residential homes.
I suppose I need to check Pompano Beach to see if I am allowed to operate a leather goods production business from my home.
I'd get up to speed on your permits if I were you before the city zoning inspectors show up at your door.
Now, did you say on TAR that you make 150 cases a year? That translates into how much taxable income?
Next time you feel like messing with someone's business you really ought to think it through.
I offered you the peaceful out and you declined it.
I will consider not pursuing my thoughts about moving to Pompano Beach/Coconut Creek to open a leather goods business. Nor will I inquire with the IRS what my tax bracket for profits made on around $100,000 worth of sales might be.
It would be nice to see you consider a public apology on all points while I am mulling over these other topics. I am pretty busy so I might just forget about the Coconut Creek project altogether. Just waiting on a call from the zoning department now to discuss where my leather goods business should be located and which permits I need.
I would suggest that all of those are over the line. Adults should be able to associate without needing to slander each other, or speak in a way meant with ill intent. Sometimes people need to be called out for actions or B.S., but even that can be done in the right way.
Hey listen, when I post with the intent to get your goad, I admit it. At least have the balls to own it.
JV
Look, I admit that I gave as good as I got in the past. But I didn't start these things. I didn't get personal with anyone until they started in on me. I admit that I have gone overboard at times in my reaction. It was unprofessional of me to be that way. I was vindictive.
I admit it upsets me a great deal when people lie about me. When they make comments that are not true just to cast aspersions it hurts. I lashed out in return the wrong way many times.
To be clear I have NEVER called anyone about anyone else's labor practices. But I want to state clearly that if you are going to accuse a person of using child labor or slave labor then your own house had better be clean.
Since I have been back I have attacked no one. I have not called anyone a name. Sorry if you want to condemn me for the past then go ahead. I was a victim and I was an aggressor. But here I am being nice and civil and trying to get along.
You didn't have to needle me but you did, Joe didn't have to needle me but he did. You and a few others are trying to put me on tilt. Maybe it amuses you or maybe you think I deserve it. Maybe I do.
But that doesn't change the fact that I am here and trying to be cool after serving a six month ban, a ban by the way which really was over a misunderstanding. And yes, I have been banned perhaps three other times and all of them have been because I went off on someone too harshly.
But that was then and this is now and I can't help it if Joe and a few others persist in trying to goad me. All I can do is respond peacefully.
Really, when I said the Instrokes were flawed? Give it a rest. No mention of you at all in the answer to Monstermash. I know you'll have a reason that you posted.
Dude this has never happened. I guess this is like the Lin Chang / Justis existing partnership you mentioned. Another fabrication.
This is total crap. John you are always the cause of the escalation, and just because someone doesn't like China, or manufacturing there, doesn't make it a slur.
Did he call Xiamen to see if you were legit? Did authorities show at your door? Do you have an e-mail from him saying he would forget about it if he apologized to you?
I think you're confusing him with DaNutz, but I could be wrong. He remembers it differently.
John, with all the people that have been against you whether its cases, CTE, or whatever, out of all those people that you have issues with, whats a fair number 10-20-30. But either way, its never you. They all attack you, and its never you. Since that is the issue, as of 12:00 tonight I will put you on ignore, I hope you do the same for me. But make sure as you start stockpiling alias names you have the decency to let me know what they are so I can ignore them to.
JV
Last edited:
Ah, but nowadays, after one thread full of this crap gets shut down, hey let's just start another one!
That way they can go at each other non-stop, in full view of the public, for all eternity.
Because this is great pool forum content.
Because a lot gets solved this way.
Because someone has to get the last word.
Sheesh.
- Status