When I am far down the table and the OB is about 3 or 4 inches away from the rail directly opposite, I tend to use top inside english (inside english would probably have the same effect aside from sit) and I am able to cut the ball into the corner pocket pretty well. I'm sure this can be accomplished with a center ball hit, but I seem to do it because it tends to work all the time and I'm used to it. I've told other people about this and they just say I don't know what I'm talking about (But they don't know about throw from sidespin either etc...)
Why do I do this? English on thin cut shots.
- Thread starter Hircine
- Start date
Hard to visualize what you are talking about BUT:
With inside english your cue ball is squirting away from the object ball which could produce a thinner cut? At the distance you are referring to, I doubt that SIT is happening. Like I stated, hard to see this from Dallas.
randyg
With inside english your cue ball is squirting away from the object ball which could produce a thinner cut? At the distance you are referring to, I doubt that SIT is happening. Like I stated, hard to see this from Dallas.
randyg
Are you having an issue controlling your OB or cue ball? What kind of shaft are you using, solid or ld? Also do you the same or more comfortable with the same shot longer distances, and have more of those shots more often? Are you having an issue controlling speed?
Sounds like you could a few hours of practice with multiple cut shots playing with different types of English and speed... Just my $0.02
Sounds like you could a few hours of practice with multiple cut shots playing with different types of English and speed... Just my $0.02
I used to play with a guy who much preferred to use inside english on every shot. He felt comfortable with it and it was what he was used to. Of course he was uncomfortable with outside spin shots when he had to use them for position. I think you've identified the same situation in your case.
Since the side spin complicates things, it actually makes the shot harder. Among other things, newer/older cloth will change the cut angle.
If you hope to learn to play position well, you need to be able to make that shot with any kind of english.
Last time I did it I was using a shitty screw on tip cue, I just now recently got my cue repaired and I have not played with it aside from the day I first got it.
For those having trouble imagining the shot, say the cue ball is close to the short rail closest to you, and all the way down the table there will be a ball about 3-4 inches away from the rail, closer to the center of the opposite short rail. Its a pretty thin cut, and I just have the habit of using the same english (Inside with top).
I also always use "parallel" english, I have not really tried the backhand method (I miss terribly if I do, not using LD shafts, although I have, and parallel works just as well), and I may automatically compensate. I still have trouble determining when to use what spin for the next position. Also I barely even use center ball hits anymore, so I may be getting too spin crazy and using it when not required.
Its probably psychological, and the reason I use the same inside top english on those types of shots has given me some sort of consistency, I think it also causes the cue ball to set up better down the table without drifting towards the opposite corner pocket.
For those having trouble imagining the shot, say the cue ball is close to the short rail closest to you, and all the way down the table there will be a ball about 3-4 inches away from the rail, closer to the center of the opposite short rail. Its a pretty thin cut, and I just have the habit of using the same english (Inside with top).
I also always use "parallel" english, I have not really tried the backhand method (I miss terribly if I do, not using LD shafts, although I have, and parallel works just as well), and I may automatically compensate. I still have trouble determining when to use what spin for the next position. Also I barely even use center ball hits anymore, so I may be getting too spin crazy and using it when not required.
Its probably psychological, and the reason I use the same inside top english on those types of shots has given me some sort of consistency, I think it also causes the cue ball to set up better down the table without drifting towards the opposite corner pocket.
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That is the same thechnique that I have used for a very long time to make very difficult cut shots in the 80 to 90 degree range at both close and long range. It has pulled me out of many almost impossible situations. By using inside english with a consistent stroke speed it becomes fairly easy to make difficult cut shots. Inside at the right speed will cause the cueball to impact the object ball at a slightly thinner angle because of squirt. With a LD shaft this speed is in the slow to slow plus range. With a non LD shaft the stroke speed would need to be slower unless an radjustment to aim is made.
I believe this method works because the brain has a difficult time trying to judge the exact contact point on the extreme edge of both the object and cue ball. The brain's inability to judge correctly causes you to hit the object ball thicker than intended. However the brain is fairly consistent with hitting the same incorrect spot on a thin cut from shot to shot so it is an easy adjustment to make using the inside english while still aiming at the spot that the brain thinks is correct.
Another technique for thin cuts that works well when inside english isn't desired is to aim about 1/16" beyond(away from the cut) the spot that looks to be correct.
I believe this method works because the brain has a difficult time trying to judge the exact contact point on the extreme edge of both the object and cue ball. The brain's inability to judge correctly causes you to hit the object ball thicker than intended. However the brain is fairly consistent with hitting the same incorrect spot on a thin cut from shot to shot so it is an easy adjustment to make using the inside english while still aiming at the spot that the brain thinks is correct.
Another technique for thin cuts that works well when inside english isn't desired is to aim about 1/16" beyond(away from the cut) the spot that looks to be correct.
Have to agree with Bob on this one. When learning we sometimes tend to make certain shots the same way, maybe because we find we have more success with that method, regardless of the underlying reason. But aside from certain specialty shots, you really need to learn to make shots with whatever english is necessary for position.
The shot you are describing is a pretty difficult shot, especially over the length of the table, 80 - 90 degree cut. I doubt anyone in the world could make that shot more than 80% of the time, which is really a good benchmark to decide whether to shoot the shot or pick another option (bank, safe, etc.). Doesn't hurt to practice them occasionally, but don't get too hung up on it.
As for the inside english, it tends to deflect thinner and for some people they have better success since they are aiming a little thick on the shot and the inside helps them achieve a thinner hit. Center ball can be used as well as outside, it all depends on where you want the cue ball to go next. But since the shot is so difficult, if you feel comfortable with inside, or high inside, then use that as your go to shot if you are in a situation where you have to make that shot.
Scott
The shot you are describing is a pretty difficult shot, especially over the length of the table, 80 - 90 degree cut. I doubt anyone in the world could make that shot more than 80% of the time, which is really a good benchmark to decide whether to shoot the shot or pick another option (bank, safe, etc.). Doesn't hurt to practice them occasionally, but don't get too hung up on it.
As for the inside english, it tends to deflect thinner and for some people they have better success since they are aiming a little thick on the shot and the inside helps them achieve a thinner hit. Center ball can be used as well as outside, it all depends on where you want the cue ball to go next. But since the shot is so difficult, if you feel comfortable with inside, or high inside, then use that as your go to shot if you are in a situation where you have to make that shot.
Scott
Of course if the tough situation also requires that they shoot more slowly than usual, they will hit the ball too full. Unless they've practiced a range of speeds, that is. A side-spin-free shot doesn't have that problem.
Agree completely. I used to be guilty of shooting certain difficult shots with specific english, my go to under pressure shot now would certainly be on the center axis. But that was learned along the way, under pressure if you've shot the shot 100 times with inside and are comfortable with that then right or wrong, shoot it with inside.
Scott
Scott
I shoot a lot of my tough, large distance cut shots with inside english too ONLY if I can shoot it at my regular stroke speed, matter of fact Ill shoot most my shots with that touch of inside technique mentioned by CJ but only if I can shoot at my stroke speed, if I have to hit the shot softer/harder or use different spin or no spin at all then ill use what is necessary. The thing about shooting those shots with inside is that if will overcut the shot just a bit and thats why it might seem that its easy to make the shot with inside. However, at the end of the day you need to practice making this shots with center ball, inside and outside and a different range of speeds because your aim is gonna have to change depending on all these variables.