I have asked you this before, and you ignored it. Please explain how to hit a draw shot WITHOUT using the top of the tip? I not only can't do it, I can't even figure out how to do it without having my cue below the level of the table by shooting up through a pocket.
can you name the Top Pros that use majority center ball??
- Thread starter JayCall
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I have asked you this before, and you ignored it. Please explain how to hit a draw shot WITHOUT using the top of the tip? I not only can't do it, I can't even figure out how to do it without having my cue below the level of the table by shooting up through a pocket.
this is an answer to your question although it would never happen in real life:grin:
picture a masse where you are hitting the side of the cue ball farthest from you
when you come down from above the ball you are using the bottom ot the tip and the cue ball would come back to you (draw) after it hit an object ball in line behind it
i hope i explained that ok.
but i agree with you in normal play you have to use the top half of the tip to get draw
im always willing to learn something new or be corrected:grin:
You can't generalize like that. It doesn't work that way. Players have to factor in ball pocketing speed. The center axis option often results in the player having to shoot the shot harder, which is why top players prefer the option of spin rather than risk having to power a shot and increase their chance of missing. That's just one reason for using spin. It depends on the shot.
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I appreciate the comments , i have bought your TOI Video and it is well done, but i cant seem to get it to work for me long term- for the first day or two i seemed to have found the magic pill but then like all of temporary fixes it seemed to dwindle-like when i got in action(much like pro one)... My original instructor many many years ago was Max Eberle and he taught me to always add a little outside. But i find that i am missing too many balls when i work on beating the guys above me. I can make almost any shot with center ball, i fall in line much easier and seem to hit it more solid- better feel..etc..
but once i start struggling, i go back to the outside english crutch... just trying to improve my patterns to go up another level..
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I can relate to your too many choices comment in your TOI video series. I have changed my stroke, my bridge length, my stance EVERYTHING.. and now i dont know what to use anymore.. INFORMATION OVERLOAD!!!!
I can play a solid B speed regardless of which one i use but i cant get consistent... after 20 yrs of play... it is disheartening...
Thanks
Thanks everyone for the response...
I was just asking if there is a chance to play at a AAA/pro speed and use 90% center and if there are pros that do. i would like to watch some videos to improve...
I believe that Allen Hopkins may have done this(am i right CJ?).... but not alot of videos online of him anymore...
well anyways.... back to the day job....
I was just asking if there is a chance to play at a AAA/pro speed and use 90% center and if there are pros that do. i would like to watch some videos to improve...
I believe that Allen Hopkins may have done this(am i right CJ?).... but not alot of videos online of him anymore...
well anyways.... back to the day job....
Thanks.. good input... i use outside for that reason, but i miss to many balls... hmmmmmm
I guess you like to play for money. I do as well. I can tell you that if you try any of these methods for a day or two and then try to use them gambling you will most likely lose.
You have got to commit and make it part of your game like nothing you have ever done before.
No matter who I play now, for 10 a game or $300 a game I use CTE on every shot. I won't use TOI until I understand it completely and have immersed myself into it. On my table in the shop it's pretty sweet but I know I am not ready to use it in action.
Not sure I know what you mean by "'high-low' CB player.
Don't we all hit high sometimes and low sometimes?
Yang is known to not use a lot of side compared to other Taiwanese pros. He stays on the vertical access to control the amount the top, stun, and draw spins to manage the cue ball's angles and paths coming off the object ball. This is a good way to play if you are playing on very tight tables because it diminishes the amount of squirt you have to deal with. That's the condition Yang and the other Taiwanese pros train on. It's not as effective if you're playing on loose pockets where pocketing is relatively easy.
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I have tried them all... cte - toi --- pro one-- 4 strokes of the monk- center ball, only outside...
i just cant find the one that is for me... the decisions are impossible.. and that is why i have struggled for over 20yrs as a b player.. crazy....
That is precisely why i brought this up... i always play more solid on tight tables using center....
Thank you for clarifying. Very helpful answer.
On tight tables it's not so much using spin as it is creating angles. I learned that very quick playing on a triple shimmed Diamond with snooker-like pockets.
I can relate, the natural tenancy is to use outside english
I can relate, the natural tenancy is to use outside english, it's what our minds tell us to do. Like many other things in life, what our minds want and what really works is two very different things.
It takes (approximately) 3 weeks to change a habit on the average according to leading specialists. I believe this is a good amount of time to develop a different style. If you constantly don't "follow through" you will consistently get no results. This is true for me, you and everyone else on this planet.
If you ever want to give something 3 weeks I will help you every day if necessary. I help people every day with their games and it might as well be you. My days are going to be numbered after this month. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I can relate, the natural tenancy is to use outside english, it's what our minds tell us to do. Like many other things in life, what our minds want and what really works is two very different things.
It takes (approximately) 3 weeks to change a habit on the average according to leading specialists. I believe this is a good amount of time to develop a different style. If you constantly don't "follow through" you will consistently get no results. This is true for me, you and everyone else on this planet.
If you ever want to give something 3 weeks I will help you every day if necessary. I help people every day with their games and it might as well be you. My days are going to be numbered after this month. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Well, all techniques are only as good as your mastery of them. I can hand you the best hammer in the world but if you don't practice your technique you will hammer your thumb quite a bit and the master carpenter next to you will drive more nails and drive them home neater and faster than you with a lesser hammer.
I can only really relate this to jump cues. I sold thousands of them over the years and demonstrated them at shows and taught people to jump. I can tell you that without a doubt a LOT of those people were buying it as a crutch thinking that it worked by itself. They thought no problem I will just use the magic cue and jump out of safeties. Didn't bother to practice or really learn to control it.
The result was that a lot of those players, some whom I knew personally, would sell out a lot even if they managed to make the jump and a good hit. They were flailing with a precision tool.
The people who really practiced learned to make controlled jump shots and ended up winning matches for themselves and their team. I can't tell you the amount of people who came to me at the big tournaments who thanked me for teaching them HOW to use it and MAKING them practice until I was sure they had it down.
After reading your thread I went to the table and decided to do a little experiment on position play with TOI. Using a relatively shallow cut I wanted to see if I could put the cue ball in all the same places with TOI as I could using spin. Not only could I but I could do it more reliably. It's funny but just a little to much spin makes the cueball over run the position by a couple balls in some situations even if your speed was dead on.
I shot center ball to see what happens and was surprised to find out that on some shots I hit dead center and got one reaction which was expected but on others where I was SURE that I had hit center I actually got a little outside spin and that totally blew the position.
But with TOI I was able to use speed and just high/low/center to get where I wanted to go. I personally believe that CJ's advice on favoring one side of center, inside just a hair is the nuts because of the fact that being off towards the outside just brings you back to center and being off a little to the inside doesn't seem to hurt as much. That's with just a little messing with it on one shot. I have a long way to go if I want to say I really know how to do it though.
Anyway that's my book report.
line on the center (vertical axis) of the cue ball and one says "MAKE IT" and ......
Everyone thinks I'm teaching something so vastly different from center ball, however it's just a "hair" of difference.
If the thing than hurt me in my pool game is me missing my target on the cue ball, then doesn't make sense to just intentionally miss it, however in a controlled manner? The reason is if you miss one side of center it deflects right and if you other side it deflects left. This is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.
It's like if there's a line on the center (vertical axis) of the cue ball and one says "MAKE IT" and other says "MISS IT", wouldn't it be better to favor the "MAKE IT" side of the cue ball, then if you miss it you still "make it", just not exactly in the center.
I"m aiming at the center of the pocket every time, however, I"m ALIGNING to the part of the pocket closest to the object ball. TOI covers this process and as a result gives me a bigger "pocket zone".
Everyone thinks I'm teaching something so vastly different from center ball, however it's just a "hair" of difference.
If the thing than hurt me in my pool game is me missing my target on the cue ball, then doesn't make sense to just intentionally miss it, however in a controlled manner? The reason is if you miss one side of center it deflects right and if you other side it deflects left. This is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.
It's like if there's a line on the center (vertical axis) of the cue ball and one says "MAKE IT" and other says "MISS IT", wouldn't it be better to favor the "MAKE IT" side of the cue ball, then if you miss it you still "make it", just not exactly in the center.
I"m aiming at the center of the pocket every time, however, I"m ALIGNING to the part of the pocket closest to the object ball. TOI covers this process and as a result gives me a bigger "pocket zone".
Well Stated & I would agree, but then TOI is another option.
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I like that statement.
Science is everywhere but most greats in their field don't learn by numbers & equations. They learn to 'feel' what they do. Tennis, golf, throwing a baseball or a football, even running backs in football, dribbling & shooting a basketball. No equations & no numbers, just 'feel' & art. Why do so many think pool is different?