can you name the Top Pros that use majority center ball??

you can do this intentionally and control it during your pre shot routine.

ENGLISH! said:
I like that statement.

Science is everywhere but most greats in their field don't learn by numbers & equations. They learn to 'feel' what they do. Tennis, golf, throwing a baseball or a football, even running backs in football, dribbling & shooting a basketball. No equations & no numbers, just 'feel' & art. Why do so many think pool is different?
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That's exactly right, pool's a way of self expression and an art form, like music, art and martial arts.

It all comes down to touch and feel. The reason a system is necessary is to release your conscious mind so you can get "in touch" with your feel.

I teach players to be 90% visual and stay there until they align their tip to an exact part of the cue ball. Then, and ONLY then do they glance at the object ball, and by this time they have their visual sense down to 10% and the feel/touch up to 90%.

One of the best ways to increase on sense is to decrease another. This naturally happens when someone loses their eye sight, however, you can do this intentionally and control it during your pre shot routine.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I can relate, the natural tenancy is to use outside english, it's what our minds tell us to do. Like many other things in life, what our minds want and what really works is two very different things.

It takes (approximately) 3 weeks to change a habit on the average according to leading specialists. I believe this is a good amount of time to develop a different style. If you constantly don't "follow through" you will consistently get no results. This is true for me, you and everyone else on this planet.

If you ever want to give something 3 weeks I will help you every day if necessary. I help people every day with their games and it might as well be you. My days are going to be numbered after this month. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

I've heard the 3 weeks concept as well, but what I was never able to find out was how long each day must you play? 12 Hours? 2 Hours? Any idea?
 
Landon Shuffett and Stevie Moore. They don't play CCB 100% but the vast majority of the time they do.
 
We recommend 3 hours straight the first day, then an hour or two a day

FranCrimi said:
I've heard the 3 weeks concept as well, but what I was never able to find out was how long each day must you play? 12 Hours? 2 Hours? Any idea?
Click to expand...

We recommend 3 hours straight the first day, then an hour or two a day is fine for three weeks. Don't settle for anything but contacting the pocket in the center using the TOI. This is the only way that you know it's calibrated correctly.

I can see it working with someone right away, but I"ve been watching for it many years to rate players "speed". Now I'm on their side and it's useful to be able to help quickly and efficiently.
 
JB Cases said:
Well, all techniques are only as good as your mastery of them. I can hand you the best hammer in the world but if you don't practice your technique you will hammer your thumb quite a bit and the master carpenter next to you will drive more nails and drive them home neater and faster than you with a lesser hammer.

I can only really relate this to jump cues. I sold thousands of them over the years and demonstrated them at shows and taught people to jump. I can tell you that without a doubt a LOT of those people were buying it as a crutch thinking that it worked by itself. They thought no problem I will just use the magic cue and jump out of safeties. Didn't bother to practice or really learn to control it.

The result was that a lot of those players, some whom I knew personally, would sell out a lot even if they managed to make the jump and a good hit. They were flailing with a precision tool.

The people who really practiced learned to make controlled jump shots and ended up winning matches for themselves and their team. I can't tell you the amount of people who came to me at the big tournaments who thanked me for teaching them HOW to use it and MAKING them practice until I was sure they had it down.

After reading your thread I went to the table and decided to do a little experiment on position play with TOI. Using a relatively shallow cut I wanted to see if I could put the cue ball in all the same places with TOI as I could using spin. Not only could I but I could do it more reliably. It's funny but just a little to much spin makes the cueball over run the position by a couple balls in some situations even if your speed was dead on.

I shot center ball to see what happens and was surprised to find out that on some shots I hit dead center and got one reaction which was expected but on others where I was SURE that I had hit center I actually got a little outside spin and that totally blew the position.

But with TOI I was able to use speed and just high/low/center to get where I wanted to go. I personally believe that CJ's advice on favoring one side of center, inside just a hair is the nuts because of the fact that being off towards the outside just brings you back to center and being off a little to the inside doesn't seem to hurt as much. That's with just a little messing with it on one shot. I have a long way to go if I want to say I really know how to do it though.

Anyway that's my book report.
Click to expand...


So you messed with it on one shot for a little while and then wrote a book report? I shudder to consider the length of your post if you put in 2 hours plus per day for 3 weeks. Not that having enough data or info to have statistical significance has ever hampered you before.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I can relate, the natural tenancy is to use outside english, it's what our minds tell us to do. Like many other things in life, what our minds want and what really works is two very different things.

It takes (approximately) 3 weeks to change a habit on the average according to leading specialists. I believe this is a good amount of time to develop a different style. If you constantly don't "follow through" you will consistently get no results. This is true for me, you and everyone else on this planet.

If you ever want to give something 3 weeks I will help you every day if necessary. I help people every day with their games and it might as well be you. My days are going to be numbered after this month. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

ok.. ill take you up on that
 
JB Cases said:
Well, all techniques are only as good as your mastery of them. I can hand you the best hammer in the world but if you don't practice your technique you will hammer your thumb quite a bit and the master carpenter next to you will drive more nails and drive them home neater and faster than you with a lesser hammer.

I can only really relate this to jump cues. I sold thousands of them over the years and demonstrated them at shows and taught people to jump. I can tell you that without a doubt a LOT of those people were buying it as a crutch thinking that it worked by itself. They thought no problem I will just use the magic cue and jump out of safeties. Didn't bother to practice or really learn to control it.

The result was that a lot of those players, some whom I knew personally, would sell out a lot even if they managed to make the jump and a good hit. They were flailing with a precision tool.

The people who really practiced learned to make controlled jump shots and ended up winning matches for themselves and their team. I can't tell you the amount of people who came to me at the big tournaments who thanked me for teaching them HOW to use it and MAKING them practice until I was sure they had it down.

After reading your thread I went to the table and decided to do a little experiment on position play with TOI. Using a relatively shallow cut I wanted to see if I could put the cue ball in all the same places with TOI as I could using spin. Not only could I but I could do it more reliably. It's funny but just a little to much spin makes the cueball over run the position by a couple balls in some situations even if your speed was dead on.

I shot center ball to see what happens and was surprised to find out that on some shots I hit dead center and got one reaction which was expected but on others where I was SURE that I had hit center I actually got a little outside spin and that totally blew the position.

But with TOI I was able to use speed and just high/low/center to get where I wanted to go. I personally believe that CJ's advice on favoring one side of center, inside just a hair is the nuts because of the fact that being off towards the outside just brings you back to center and being off a little to the inside doesn't seem to hurt as much. That's with just a little messing with it on one shot. I have a long way to go if I want to say I really know how to do it though.

Anyway that's my book report.
Click to expand...


hmm ... gonna have to try that myself so i can get it solidify...

thanks for being the test subject...
 
Mitchxout said:
Stevie is the best I've ever seen at rolling his cueball.

I believe Larry Price (RIP) belongs on this list as well.
Click to expand...

old popeye... ah man didnt know he passed away ... went on the road with him years ago when i lived in Atlanta... he was a nut...
 
There is a player review of Jose Garcia vs Tony Robles playing a near perfect set of 9 ball... This accustats tape is a must own and shows how a strong 14.1 player simplifies the game of 9-ball... Watching Jose flawlessly float the cue ball into line is a beautiful watch... This is one of the tapes I view before playing... Gets my mind right, I feel as if I can get into stroke without ever hitting a ball... To my surprise, Jose is very articulate and well spoken... Seems like a great guy to hang out with... Chose family life and running a room over this beautiful, brutal game... Which was the right choice imho...



If you are looking for center ball, players with strong 14.1 backgrounds is where you should look... I'm just now getting into 14.1 after 15+ years of mostly rotation.... I continue to stumble right around 30 but feel I'll break 50 sometime this year.... :cool:

Garcia vs Robles link below

http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/st...PNAME=Jose+Garcia+vs.+Tony+Robles*+(PR)+(DVD)
 
Last edited:
Playin4Dinner said:
There is a player review of Jose Garcia vs Tony Robles playing a near perfect set of 9 ball... This accustats tape is a must own and shows how a strong 14.1 player simplifies the game of 9-ball... Watching Jose flawlessly float the cue ball into line is a beautiful watch... This is one of the tapes I view before playing... Gets my mind right, I feel as if I can get into stroke without ever hitting a ball... To my surprise, Jose is very articulate and well spoken... Seems like a great guy to hang out with... Chose family life and running a room over this beautiful, brutal game... Which was the right choice imho...



If you are looking for center ball, players with strong 14.1 backgrounds is where you should look... I'm just now getting into 14.1 after 15+ years of mostly rotation.... I continue to stumble right around 30 but feel I'll break 50 sometime this year.... :cool:

Garcia vs Robles link below

http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/st...PNAME=Jose+Garcia+vs.+Tony+Robles*+(PR)+(DVD)
Click to expand...

Thanks... ill check out the video..
 
nobcitypool said:
So you messed with it on one shot for a little while and then wrote a book report? I shudder to consider the length of your post if you put in 2 hours plus per day for 3 weeks. Not that having enough data or info to have statistical significance has ever hampered you before.
Click to expand...

I was ONLY giving my observation of comparing it to ONE SHOT with different spins.

THE POST was about spending the TIME to master a technique not about TOI itself necessarily.

This isn't about data. It's about gathering experience with a method and committing to it.

IF I had 2 hours a day for three weeks to practice any method I would become a monster with that method and I would write a novel about my experience. While I don't understand your bitterness I totally respect your right to be bitter and biting to me.

I was only trying to help the OP with his own struggles relating my own experiences with different aspects of the game. Conversationally. Your attacking me really doesn't add to the conversation or help the original poster but whatever drives you to do it is your own thing to deal with with.

Do you have anything constructive to offer on the topic?
 
CJ Wiley said:
This is from something we call "pinning" the shots. We hit it with the center of the TOP of our tip. The cue must be angled down slightly so the top of the tip hits a half tip or tip below center, however I favor the inside of center to control the deflection. The "pinned" shot has a different sound to it, it's more high pitched and the cue ball reacts with much more response.

Buddy Hall did it extremely well, he would just touch the cue ball and it would draw back several feet. This is from precision, not power, and it's not done with center ball.
Click to expand...

Just like a golf ball. I did not know this was possible. However, it does explain a lot. If I understand this correctly, a very firm tip is better for this. I don't want to say hard because that implies unyielding like a rock.
 
it's like describing what an almond tastes like.....you have to experience

ChopStick said:
Just like a golf ball. I did not know this was possible. However, it does explain a lot. If I understand this correctly, a very firm tip is better for this. I don't want to say hard because that implies unyielding like a rock.
Click to expand...

It's about hitting the cue ball with the right "pool cue angle" to hit a smaller part of your tip. This isn't going to followed by a scientific explanation, I can show someone how to do it and they can tell by the sound something's different, however, it's a combination of reasons why. I don't think I'll get into trying to explain it in writing, it's like describing what an almond tastes like.....you have to experience most things in pool to really "get it" and make it yours. 'The Experience {of the Game} is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
It's about hitting the cue ball with the right "pool cue angle" to hit a smaller part of your tip. This isn't going to followed by a scientific explanation, I can show someone how to do it and they can tell by the sound something's different, however, it's a combination of reasons why. I don't think I'll get into trying to explain it in writing, it's like describing what an almond tastes like.....you have to experience most things in pool to really "get it" and make it yours. 'The Experience {of the Game} is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

I understand. Is it something you can put in a video?
 
JB Cases said:
I was ONLY giving my observation of comparing it to ONE SHOT with different spins.

THE POST was about spending the TIME to master a technique not about TOI itself necessarily.

This isn't about data. It's about gathering experience with a method and committing to it.

IF I had 2 hours a day for three weeks to practice any method I would become a monster with that method and I would write a novel about my experience. While I don't understand your bitterness I totally respect your right to be bitter and biting to me.

I was only trying to help the OP with his own struggles relating my own experiences with different aspects of the game. Conversationally. Your attacking me really doesn't add to the conversation or help the original poster but whatever drives you to do it is your own thing to deal with with.

Do you have anything constructive to offer on the topic?
Click to expand...


Bitter? LMAO! Get your monster ego under control and grow a thicker skin. If you thought that was an attack, you have lived a very sheltered life.
 
JB Cases said:
I was ONLY giving my observation of comparing it to ONE SHOT with different spins.

THE POST was about spending the TIME to master a technique not about TOI itself necessarily.

This isn't about data. It's about gathering experience with a method and committing to it.

IF I had 2 hours a day for three weeks to practice any method I would become a monster with that method and I would write a novel about my experience. While I don't understand your bitterness I totally respect your right to be bitter and biting to me.

I was only trying to help the OP with his own struggles relating my own experiences with different aspects of the game. Conversationally. Your attacking me really doesn't add to the conversation or help the original poster but whatever drives you to do it is your own thing to deal with with.

Do you have anything constructive to offer on the topic?
Click to expand...


I really appreciate your insight.. we all have the same purpose here... to better understand the game and play the best we can..
 
nobcitypool said:
Bitter? LMAO! Get your monster ego under control and grow a thicker skin. If you thought that was an attack, you have lived a very sheltered life.
Click to expand...

I feel awful that I have some how caused you to be negative to me. My deepest apologies for whatever set you off. I will try very hard to act in such a way that you never feel the need attack me.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
 
"Pinning the Cue Ball"

ChopStick said:
I understand. Is it something you can put in a video?
Click to expand...

The Topic that keeps being requested is my thoughts on the Pool Stroke and how the wrist/hand/fingers are used to maximize precision and power. The "Pinning" technique is part of this knowledge. It allows you to get the most cue ball reaction with the least visible movement from the arm.

The target is the cue ball, this is apparent because it's what we actually contact with the tip. What's not apparent is how to maximize that tip contact (by cocking your wrists/cue before the shot) to get the most effective results of "Pinning the Cue Ball". You can see the extreme example of this in the masse' shot and there's some incredible reactions possible.
 
AGree with CJ

I've been around pool for well over 50 years and I agree with CJ that none of the top players use center ball a lot even though most of them would say they do ( so they could continue beating everyone) !
 
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