8 Ball with a point system

[Push&Pool]

I posted something about this before but now I thought about and developed the whole idea way better. What would a version of 8 Ball played with a point system look like? Would you like to try it? These are the differences between that hypothetical game and classic 8 Ball:

- racking the balls and breaking just like in normal 8 ball
- the color which goes in first becomes your color
- all balls of your color you pocketed during the break bring 1 point
- opponent's balls you pocketed on the break bring neither positive or negative points
- scratching (or kicking CB off the table) at any time in the game is -1 point and BiH for the opponent
- you need to call pocket for every shot - balls you dropped in wrong pockets bring no points
- pocketing your ball straight into the pocket counts as 1 point
- for every rail or other ball (regardless of the color) your ball hits before being pocketed you get 1 additional point
- combo shots bring 1 point for the pocket, plus 1 point for every ball in the chain of deflection
- for pocketing your opponent's balls you get -1 point
- balls pocketed by jump shots count as 2 points
- if you completely miss your balls or no ball touches the rail, you get -1 point and the opponent has BiH (just like for scratching)
- pocketing the 8 ball before finishing your balls is a loss
- when you're on the 8 ball, you need to choose/call a pocket every turn (hitting the wrong one is a loss)
- when pocketing the 8 ball, same rules for pointing apply as to any other ball, but the pocket itself counts as 3 points
- when the 8 ball is pocketed, the game ends and the player with more points (or less negative points) wins
- if 8 ball is pocketed ON THE BREAK, the player gets 10 points and the game continues until one player pockets all of his balls

Other rules - same as standard 8 ball

Don't get me wrong, I love classic 8 Ball, I grew up on it, and I wouldn't replace it for anything, but I'd like to see this game played as well. I feel this version would be even more challenging and interesting to watch. As more difficult shots bring more points, the player would need more skills and would have to gamble as well when attempting some crazy shots, especially when trying to turn the tide of the match. Classic 8 Ball rewards simplicity, but in this one more complex solutions would pay off more. I saw no balance issues or gaps in rules (I could be wrong though) so I think this would be a fair and challenging game.

EDITED RULES:

1. determining group of balls just like in standard 8 Ball (first shot after the break), but each ball the player makes (regardless of group) brings 1 point, except the 8, which scores 10, and obviously CB, which takes away a point

This way luck isn't a big factor anymore, and the player is still rewarded for pockets he/she made on the break

2. for rails bringing 1 point, that is changed to banks

3. Jump shots count as 2 points ONLY if there's an obstacle between the CB and the object ball

 

[hang-the-9]

You were doing OK except for the points and terminology. In 8-ball you don't go by "colors". There are only 2 balls of each color, a solid and a stripe not counting the 8. Unless you are using the set that was made only for 8 ball and does not have any numbered balls, which are pretty rare, at least in the US. Most matches I have seen from Europe are played using the normal sets.

" for every rail or other ball (regardless of the color) your ball hits before being pocketed you get 1 additional point"

Eh? who is going to watch and count this? Is brushing a rail on the way to a pocket count as a rail? What if it then hits the points 3 times? You get 4 extra points for almost missing while a good shot gets 1?

Aside from some odd terms you like to use, nothing really horrible about this game, it's basically a combination of 3-4 other games. I do like subtracting points for a scratch, hello 1-pocket.

 

[Push&Pool]

You were doing OK except for the points and terminology. In 8-ball you don't go by "colors". There are only 2 balls of each color, a solid and a stripe not counting the 8. Unless you are using the set that was made only for 8 ball and does not have any numbered balls, which are pretty rare, at least in the US. Most matches I have seen from Europe are played using the normal sets.

" for every rail or other ball (regardless of the color) your ball hits before being pocketed you get 1 additional point"

Eh? who is going to watch and count this? Is brushing a rail on the way to a pocket count as a rail? What if it then hits the points 3 times? You get 4 extra points for almost missing while a good shot gets 1?

Aside from some odd terms you like to use, nothing really horrible about this game, it's basically a combination of 3-4 other games. I do like subtracting points for a scratch, hello 1-pocket.

Sorry, by "colors" I meant stripes and solids. And yeah, I forgot this one:

- if a ball hits the rail inside the pocket shelf ("behind" the points of the pocket) of the pocket you called and then goes in, those touches don't bring additional points

All other rail hits do bring 1 point. Even if the balls deflects 20 times between the points of another pocket and then goes in in the pocket you called :grin:

 

[CreeDo]

It's a good start. I think good players will run out often and then the game just plays like normal 8-ball and all the points stuff won't matter then.
But if neither player is gonna run out then the points can come into play.
Some thoughts.

- Determining group by which ball goes in first:
Problematic because it requires you to watch like a hawk, sometimes two balls will go in
near simultaneously. People will get into arguments.

Also adds more luck to the game. You may get saddled with a group that sucks,
while the opponent has a very easy table. If you don't like open table,
the typical bar rule solution is - if you make balls in only one group, that's your group.
One of each = your choice. If you made more balls in one group than the other,
then your group is the one with the most balls potted.

Somewhat less important but worth mentioning: If you shoot the ball that goes in first, but two balls from the other group drop later, the opponent now has 2 fewer balls he can use to score points. He's already at a disadvantage by not breaking, and now he's penalized further.

- For the rail rule, as hang-the-9 said, you'd want to amend this to mean a bank or
2+ railer, rather than balls that just brush a rail.

- jump shots: this might encourage players to jump even when there's no obstacle in the way proficient jumpers may shoot every hanger as a jump shot to collect the extra point.

- 8 on the break would effectively be a win, the other guy I guess would have to do a bunch of trick shots to make up the points.

 

[zpele]

There is a reason that the APA scoring system doesnt use negative points.

It makes it harder to track and does not lend itself to writing on a piece of paper.

Also I do not think this type of system would work for ALL different skill levels.

That being said it also takes away many of the strategic shots that are played and used during a high-level safety rack.

 

[bdorman]

It's good try but I fear way too complicated to keep score.

My playing group is trying a new game (for us) where we play 9-ball with points: ball number = points scored -- 1 point for the one-ball, 2 points for the two-ball and so on. First player to 23 points (the majority of a possible 45 points) wins. The "excitement" comes from the fact that you can run the first 6 balls and only have 21 points...so don't miss the seven

But at least half the players are frustrated by this simple scoring system.

I can see using a points system for rotation games, especially in my group where no one is going to break and run out. I see less need for it in 8-ball.

 

[hang-the-9]

Sorry, by "colors" I meant stripes and solids. And yeah, I forgot this one:

- if a ball hits the rail inside the pocket shelf ("behind" the points of the pocket) of the pocket you called and then goes in, those touches don't bring additional points

All other rail hits do bring 1 point. Even if the balls deflects 20 times between the points of another pocket and then goes in in the pocket you called :grin:

That's impossible to keep track of without a camera for replay for most shots. I'd never play in any game that required me to watch what rail I brushed or how many times I hit a rail during a shot. You may as well say you get a point if your tip is in contact with the cueball for 1 millisecond and 2 for 2 milliseconds. You want more points for "fancy" shots like banks and jumps and combos, those are easy to see. Although most of the time you end up with those shots due to bad position, so you are rewarding for bad play LOL.

And the other posters are also correct, the scoring of a game will take as long as playing the game, and lead to way to many issues. Here is what I see your game's scoring to sound like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5ROhf5Soqs

 

[hang-the-9]

It's good try but I fear way too complicated to keep score.

My playing group is trying a new game (for us) where we play 9-ball with points: ball number = points scored -- 1 point for the one-ball, 2 points for the two-ball and so on. First player to 23 points (the majority of a possible 45 points) wins. The "excitement" comes from the fact that you can run the first 6 balls and only have 21 points...so don't miss the seven

But at least half the players are frustrated by this simple scoring system.

I can see using a points system for rotation games, especially in my group where no one is going to break and run out. I see less need for it in 8-ball.

You're just playing Rotation with 9 balls

 

[Push&Pool]

Good point there, I think these changes would make the game better and simpler:

1. determining group of balls just like in standard 8 Ball (first shot after the break), but each ball the player makes (regardless of group) brings 1 point, except the 8, which scores 10, and obviously CB, which takes away a point

This way luck isn't a big factor anymore, and the player is still rewarded for pockets he/she made on the break

2. for rails bringing 1 point, that is changed to banks

3. Jump shots count as 2 points ONLY if there's an obstacle between the CB and the object ball

I'd personally leave 8 bringing 10 points on the break but not win. It would be exciting for the other player to do everything possible to catch up.

I'd also leave negative points. I don't see why they'd be any harder to track than the positive ones