Valley Table H*ll

S

StuartTKelley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So over the last year or so I feel like, well I know, my game has come up and I'm playing pretty strong most of the time...

(in league pool and whenever I play outside of league...not gambling, not against pros..road players...let's leave all the comparisons out and "what is strong") Just talking about my little world here....

I'm an APA 7 in 8ball..7 in 9ball, was an 8 for a while and had some success but happy to be a 7 again...

Over the last month or two I've been playing great at my home location, in house league. We have AE Schmidt drop pocket tables 8 and 9 ft. I love playing on these though the tables are in need of some tlc.....not perfect but oh well....not affecting my game.

However, I play in NAPA at another location and we play on very nice Valleys, yes, but Valleys....After an awesome 8ball, 5-0 rackless win on Wednesday against a strong 6, only one break and run but a pretty flawless match at my home APA location. ..on to last night...

So last night for NAPA, Valley tables...I go play 9ball against a decent 5 in APA...couldn't beat me on Diamond or Schmidt...he beats me 3-1. I didn't play well and he was impressed with himself...first match I lost in a while and to a player that couldn't beat the players I've been beating soundly on the big tables....So I think I'm done with Valleys....might play 8ball on them but 9 is out for good....ridiculous....I offered to play him in a race for to 5 or 7 for $100 on the 9ft GC or at my home location but he declined though he said he thought he had a chance...... I beg to differ based on my performance of late.... He's a friend of mine but he needs to respect my ability ...just because he plays on Valleys and does well doesn't prove much to me.....

Valley tables are a different world and I don't like it....to me it proves little
 
leto1776 said:
Rads more like you had an off night,than anything else.
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Well that does happen to me, it happens less and less these days...but sure that's a possibility. The only difference I saw in my playing "equation" is that I played on a Valley last night for the first time in a long time and it just so happens the first loss I've had in a while....I think there is a direct link to my great playing and playing on bigger tables and Diamonds....I lose on Valleys much more often than on bigger and better tables....

Is there not a possibility that I am right about this? And I mean for me.....Personally I am a different player on the big tables....totally different...you'll meet a different player in me on a Valley...I can't help it...part mental for sure but mostly equipment in my opinion
 
sounds like you've defeated yourself on the Valley's before you even began. I have come to like them. Hated them at first but almost all the bars here have them so just go used to them if you want to play where they have them.
 
All we have where Im from are Valley 7ft tables.....I got pretty good at running out on them went to a couple out of town tournaments on big tables and learned how bad I played in a hurry. The little table really is sooooo much easier to make balls on it really does even out the difference in 2 players if they are anywhere close to the same speed.
 
Valleys can be a skill level equalizer, it allows the lower level players to close the gap a bit IMHO. I have a 9' Diamond at home and when I play league on a 7' barbox, those pockets look like 5 gallon buckets. Problem is, your opponent is also playing those same forgiving pockets. The poor position play can often be made up by pocketing more balls by the lower skilled player. I find this is more true in 9 ball than 8 ball as the table is less crowded. Once you get 3 or 4 balls off the table, it can really come into play.

I find the best way to play against lower level skill players on the bar boxes is to utilize more safeties. Particularly look for lock down safeties earlier in the rack. Don't start your run until you've gotten the position you need to have a high % chance. Most (not all) lower level players are pretty poor at kicking. You'll end up with ball in hand more often which should be enough for you to win.
 
nobcitypool said:
Valleys can be a skill level equalizer, it allows the lower level players to close the gap a bit IMHO. I have a 9' Diamond at home and when I play league on a 7' barbox, those pockets look like 5 gallon buckets. Problem is, your opponent is also playing those same forgiving pockets. The poor position play can often be made up by pocketing more balls by the lower skilled player. I find this is more true in 9 ball than 8 ball as the table is less crowded. Once you get 3 or 4 balls off the table, it can really come into play.

I find the best way to play against lower level skill players on the bar boxes is to utilize more safeties. Particularly look for lock down safeties earlier in the rack. Don't start your run until you've gotten the position you need to have a high % chance. Most (not all) lower level players are pretty poor at kicking. You'll end up with ball in hand more often which should be enough for you to win.
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Good advice and I agree 100%. I probably need to change my strategy on these tables, especially in 9ball.
 
This is purely my opinion. "playing strong" includes being able to adapt to conditions which includes table.

There is also a very big possibility that he plays much better on a valley than the other tables you mention because it is an easier table. If you do not play much on a valley your game may be more even on all tables because you play on the tougher ones.

I like the tougher tables much more myself but will play on pretty much anything.
 
I think the real culprit here is the short race, not the table.
You know you'd beat him on any equipment in a race to say, 10.
But 9 ball has a lot of luck in it and so anything can happen in just 4 games.

If you're a 7/borderline 8, you should need one or two innings to finish any rack.
And running two racks in a row is out of the question, if you get good tight racks and break well.

I also dislike barboxes but you gotta outgrow the mindset that it's the table's fault.
I mean, if he ran all three racks... ok. But I bet it wasn't like that.
I bet at some point you gave up control of the table by either missing a ball
or playing a safe where he could see the object ball and didn't even have to bank it.

At your level with a small table and big pockets, neither of those should happen.
And it's kind of shitty sportsmanship to take it personally when you lose and then woof at him
to play a hundred dollar set, even when you know he's like 3 speeds below you.

Let him enjoy and be happy about his win, he doesn't have to respect your ability,
he didn't join league to respect StuartTKelley's ability... he signed up to have fun
and challenge himself against better players.
 
Doc Holliday said:
All we have where Im from are Valley 7ft tables.....I got pretty good at running out on them went to a couple out of town tournaments on big tables and learned how bad I played in a hurry. The little table really is sooooo much easier to make balls on it really does even out the difference in 2 players if they are anywhere close to the same speed.
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I think it can be a big adjustment going from a bar box to a big table and not a fun one at first for sure. I do think the small tables with big pockets over inflate the ability of lower skill level players.....For me, I just struggle with them a lot of the time....sometimes I'll play lights out on them but not often...
 
CreeDo said:
I think the real culprit here is the short race, not the table.
You know you'd beat him on any equipment in a race to say, 10.
But 9 ball has a lot of luck in it and so anything can happen in just 4 games.

If you're a 7/borderline 8, you should need one or two innings to finish any rack.
And running two racks in a row is out of the question, if you get good tight racks and break well.

I also dislike barboxes but you gotta outgrow the mindset that it's the table's fault.
I mean, if he ran all three racks... ok. But I bet it wasn't like that.
I bet at some point you gave up control of the table by either missing a ball
or playing a safe where he could see the object ball and didn't even have to bank it.

At your level with a small table and big pockets, neither of those should happen.
And it's kind of shitty sportsmanship to take it personally when you lose and then woof at him
to play a hundred dollar set, even when you know he's like 3 speeds below you.

Let him enjoy and be happy about his win, he doesn't have to respect your ability,
he didn't join league to respect StuartTKelley's ability... he signed up to have fun
and challenge himself against better players.
Click to expand...

You are right here, I did make silly mistakes. Part due to lack of inspiration part circumstances, part just me. It's just too easy for a player at his level to make balls on those tables. I was a bit rude afterwards and probably shouldn't have gotten cocky or defensive. I agree, I feel bad about how I acted. Usually I'm a gracious winner or loser.
 
StuartTKelley said:
However, I play in NAPA at another location and we play on very nice Valleys, yes, but Valleys....After an awesome 8ball, 5-0 rackless win on Wednesday against a strong 6, only one break and run but a pretty flawless match at my home APA location. ..on to last night...

So last night for NAPA, Valley tables...I go play 9ball against a decent 5 in APA...couldn't beat me on Diamond or Schmidt...he beats me 3-1. I didn't play well and he was impressed with himself...first match I lost in a while and to a player that couldn't beat the players I've been beating soundly on the big tables....So I think I'm done with Valleys....might play 8ball on them but 9 is out for good....ridiculous....I offered to play him in a race for to 5 or 7 for $100 on the 9ft GC or at my home location but he declined though he said he thought he had a chance...... I beg to differ based on my performance of late.... He's a friend of mine but he needs to respect my ability ...just because he plays on Valleys and does well doesn't prove much to me.....

Valley tables are a different world and I don't like it....to me it proves little
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Sounds like you were a sore loser. It sure does prove something. It proves that you aren't always going to win when you think you will. Not a very good feeling for the ego to handle and it's showing here. Quit crying, man up, play the game and accept that the results are based upon both your performance and your opponent's. The bolded part above makes me think you're ego hasn't faced enough better players and has gotten a little too big.

...
"You are right here, I did make silly mistakes. Part due to lack of inspiration part circumstances, part just me. It's just too easy for a player at his level to make balls on those tables. I was a bit rude afterwards and probably shouldn't have gotten cocky or defensive. I agree, I feel bad about how I acted. Usually I'm a gracious winner or loser."
...
Easy for a player of his level.. what, harder for a player of your level? Rude afterwards to a friend? You've pretty much confirmed what I said above and more.
 
easymoney1 said:
This is purely my opinion. "playing strong" includes being able to adapt to conditions which includes table.

There is also a very big possibility that he plays much better on a valley than the other tables you mention because it is an easier table. If you do not play much on a valley your game may be more even on all tables because you play on the tougher ones.

I like the tougher tables much more myself but will play on pretty much anything.
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I agree with this.

If you are as strong as you say you are then you should be able to adapt.

When you said 'he needs to respect my ability' I laughed btw. You come off as sounding kind of jerky.

You also start off by saying that you are strong for your area but that we shouldnt compare you to pros or road players.

I for one do not know how strong of an area you play in so I can't say how strong you actually are.


My suggestion for you would be to keep on practicing and get to that next level. It sounds like you have plateaued for the moment. The problem with all of us is that we are unable to see the next level of play until we are there.

Then we look back and realize how little we actually knew.
 
Banks said:
Sounds like you were a sore loser. It sure does prove something. It proves that you aren't always going to win when you think you will. Not a very good feeling for the ego to handle and it's showing here. Quit crying, man up, play the game and accept that the results are based upon both your performance and your opponent's. The bolded part above makes me think you're ego hasn't faced enough better players and has gotten a little too big.

...
"You are right here, I did make silly mistakes. Part due to lack of inspiration part circumstances, part just me. It's just too easy for a player at his level to make balls on those tables. I was a bit rude afterwards and probably shouldn't have gotten cocky or defensive. I agree, I feel bad about how I acted. Usually I'm a gracious winner or loser."
...
Easy for a player of his level.. what, harder for a player of your level? Rude afterwards to a friend? You've pretty much confirmed what I said above and more.
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I have faced plenty of strong and stronger players and guess what, I am good at pool....I just am. I've lost and won my fair share. Do I take losing to a player that has no business beating me? NO..do you?

And you aren't proving much by throwing slanted comments my way either .....I'm sure you've never been rude to a friend...couldn't have been! sure.

If a table makes no difference then I guess I'm just wrong.

The only player or type of player I have seen where a table wasn't a factor was a guy here who plays pro speed (no names) and he can play on anything with any cue....
 
zpele said:
I agree with this.

If you are as strong as you say you are then you should be able to adapt.

When you said 'he needs to respect my ability' I laughed btw. You come off as sounding kind of jerky.

You also start off by saying that you are strong for your area but that we shouldnt compare you to pros or road players.

I for one do not know how strong of an area you play in so I can't say how strong you actually are.


My suggestion for you would be to keep on practicing and get to that next level. It sounds like you have plateaued for the moment. The problem with all of us is that we are unable to see the next level of play until we are there.

Then we look back and realize how little we actually knew.
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I play in Virginia...we have a lot of strong players here. I can't say stronger than other areas because I don't play anywhere else but we aren't weak for sure. I do know I can get better and I'm always trying.

I was jerky last night, yes. I am not a jerk though. I acted like one and we all have. I am not proud of it.
 
StuartTKelley said:
I have faced plenty of strong and stronger players and guess what, I am good at pool....I just am. I've lost and won my fair share. Do I take losing to a player that has no business beating me? NO..do you?

And you aren't proving much by throwing slanted comments my way either .....I'm sure you've never been rude to a friend...couldn't have been! sure.

If a table makes no difference then I guess I'm just wrong.

The only player or type of player I have seen where a table wasn't a factor was a guy here who plays pro speed (no names) and he can play on anything with any cue....
Click to expand...

I'm not throwing "slanted" comments your way. You're acting high and mighty and I'm calling you on it. "No business beating (you)".. that's a laugh. So, any time you're 60/40 to beat somebody, you win 100% is what you're suggesting. That's just stupid. Play enough games and you'll lose to plenty of people that "shouldn't" beat you and you'll figure out that there's almost always a valid reason for it.

I'm a 7/9, not that it means jack, because I consider myself a B player. A 7/7 to me means that you're just starting to figure out how to really play. I said it before and I'll say it again, your ego's getting a bit far ahead of you.

Unless the person is a 2 or a 3, you'd better keep that "no business beating me" stuff in check, because it makes you sound like a jerk. The more you respond, the more you keep repeating it, though..
 
StuartTKelley said:
I have faced plenty of strong and stronger players and guess what, I am good at pool....I just am. I've lost and won my fair share. Do I take losing to a player that has no business beating me? NO..do you?

And you aren't proving much by throwing slanted comments my way either .....I'm sure you've never been rude to a friend...couldn't have been! sure.

If a table makes no difference then I guess I'm just wrong.

The only player or type of player I have seen where a table wasn't a factor was a guy here who plays pro speed (no names) and he can play on anything with any cue....
Click to expand...

For curiosity's sake can you tell me your speed in the A-D ranks? A 6 usually only ranks about a B-C speed so your probably no where near as good as you think you are. Unless you sandbag.

I would be careful saying you are good at pool on this site unless you actually are and have the credentials to back it up. There are many on this site that will eat you up and spit you out before they have their first coffee if you think you are better than you are.

I would also be careful how you respond from here on out as you are turning yourself into a really good mark.
 
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