Kamui Soft Black hardening up

hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have Kamui Soft tips on two cues. Both of them have 1/2 or more of their height left. Both are sounding and feeling hard, they make a thunk sound when hit now, and the feel is a lot harder than they were a few months ago. They also need a lot more scuffing/tapping to hold chalk well than before.

Is that normal for these tips?

They are not even close to being worn enough to be replaced but do not feel at all like they did for the first few months we used them.
 
Nature of the beast. All tips will eventually get hard, nothing you can do about it. The shorter they are the harder they get. Just like when they mushroom, they are just compacting down harder. The black ones seem to do it quicker than the brown ones from what I have seen.
 
hang-the-9 said:
I have Kamui Soft tips on two cues. Both of them have 1/2 or more of their height left. Both are sounding and feeling hard, they make a thunk sound when hit now, and the feel is a lot harder than they were a few months ago. They also need a lot more scuffing/tapping to hold chalk well than before.

Is that normal for these tips?

They are not even close to being worn enough to be replaced but do not feel at all like they did for the first few months we used them.
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I have the super soft on one of my shafts. I haven't noticed a difference in over a year with the same tip. Do you tend to hit the balls hard? The only reason I ask is that I would think that a lot of hard impact on the tip will eventually cause the leather to harden some.
 
Tips tend to hit harder the shorter they get simply because there is less cushion between the cue and the cue ball and because they become more compact the longer you play with them. IMHO tips straight out of the box tend to be too bouncy and need to be shaved down a little, but to each his own.
 
eddie0776 said:
Nature of the beast. All tips will eventually get hard, nothing you can do about it. The shorter they are the harder they get. Just like when they mushroom, they are just compacting down harder. The black ones seem to do it quicker than the brown ones from what I have seen.
Click to expand...

The tips I used before these stayed the same pretty much for the lifetime of the tip, maybe I need to swap from Kamui ones. They play great when new but I have no interest in changing out tips that often. My tips tend to last for a year or more, I only play a couple of times a week.

Wonder if I need to scuff them down some with a file to get the top layer of leather off again, maybe I'll try that and see how it works.

These are not very short at all, there are less than 1/2 down from new height.
 
hang-the-9 said:
The tips I used before these stayed the same pretty much for the lifetime of the tip, maybe I need to swap from Kamui ones. They play great when new but I have no interest in changing out tips that often. My tips tend to last for a year or more, I only play a couple of times a week.

Wonder if I need to scuff them down some with a file to get the top layer of leather off again, maybe I'll try that and see how it works.

These are not very short at all, there are less than 1/2 down from new height.
Click to expand...

I agree, at 20 bucks a pop they should last you a while. Just out of curiosity, is the tip installer burnishing the tip? If so this could be your problem. These tips (and most laminated tips) are not supposed to be burnished according to Kamui.
 
hang-the-9 said:
The tips I used before these stayed the same pretty much for the lifetime of the tip, maybe I need to swap from Kamui ones. They play great when new but I have no interest in changing out tips that often. My tips tend to last for a year or more, I only play a couple of times a week.

Wonder if I need to scuff them down some with a file to get the top layer of leather off again, maybe I'll try that and see how it works.

These are not very short at all, there are less than 1/2 down from new height.
Click to expand...

When I had an Elk Master that I really liked (ususally becasue it was softer than normal), I would push up on it with my thumb when ever I was not at the table. I think this kept it from compacting as fast. Might work, but the Kamui is layered so it might cause a layer to seperate.

My Kamui SS was TOO soft at first. I had to remove a few layers. It does make a 'thonk' sound but it is playing fine except it appears to glaze over but seems to still hold chalk well enough.

Good Luck,
 
Cdryden said:
I agree, at 20 bucks a pop they should last you a while. Just out of curiosity, is the tip installer burnishing the tip? If so this could be your problem. These tips (and most laminated tips) are not supposed to be burnished according to Kamui.
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My cue Mike Webb put the tip on, the second one came with a Kamui from the factory. I don't know exactly how they were put on. I figure Mike would know what he's doing with those tips. I know that the Kamuis need a slower speed when turning them or they can come apart.
 
I play with a Wizard hard and cut it down to about half. I put it on a couple of months ago and it plays perfect now. I prefer my tips on the hard side, most people dont and like the softer feel of the Kamui soft.
 
hang-the-9 said:
My cue Mike Webb put the tip on, the second one came with a Kamui from the factory. I don't know exactly how they were put on. I figure Mike would know what he's doing with those tips. I know that the Kamuis need a slower speed when turning them or they can come apart.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the heat generated from the friction can break down the glue that binds the layers. Burnishing can generate a lot of heat. A lot more than shaping in fact. You should be able to look at the sides of the tip and see if they have been burnished. Are the sides straight or tapered towards the end of the tip slightly?
 
This is the exact tip I own on my cue. I will have to look at it closer when I get home. I haven't noticed it getting hard yet (couple of years), but I havent shot a ton with it either.
 
Could it be the leather has dried out? I came across a Le Pro one time it had dried out so much it felt and even sounded like a wood chip hitting the ball.
 
JohnPT said:
Could it be the leather has dried out? I came across a Le Pro one time it had dried out so much it felt and even sounded like a wood chip hitting the ball.
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Leather seems OK, when I used a tip tool on them they did not flake off. Would be odd that it happened to both tips that came from two sources, and not to my other tips that were treated the same way as these. So it should not be anything like leaving them in the cold or heat for days.
 
Many people are fooled by the ratings on the Kamui blacks. They run about 2 ratings harder than other tips.

To compare the Kamui to a Moori rating it would be something like this:
SS=medium
S=hard
M=very hard
H=break tip

So if you like a Moori medium get a Kamui black SS or brown Medium.
 
Cdryden said:
I agree, at 20 bucks a pop they should last you a while. Just out of curiosity, is the tip installer burnishing the tip? If so this could be your problem. These tips (and most laminated tips) are not supposed to be burnished according to Kamui.
Click to expand...

I did not know this, how come you're not supposed to burnish them, you will lift the layers?
 
Cdryden said:
Yeah, the heat generated from the friction can break down the glue that binds the layers. Burnishing can generate a lot of heat. A lot more than shaping in fact. You should be able to look at the sides of the tip and see if they have been burnished. Are the sides straight or tapered towards the end of the tip slightly?
Click to expand...

Both are straight, but I also use a hand burnisher to straighten them out a bit after I scuff them. The Ultimate Tip Tool thing, but I do not push it on the tip hard and I do not do it often at all.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Both are straight, but I also use a hand burnisher to straighten them out a bit after I scuff them. The Ultimate Tip Tool thing, but I do not push it on the tip hard and I do not do it often at all.
Click to expand...

Maybe it has something to do with it, but if you are not generating too much heat then it's probably something else.
 
mnShooter said:
Many people are fooled by the ratings on the Kamui blacks. They run about 2 ratings harder than other tips.

To compare the Kamui to a Moori rating it would be something like this:
SS=medium
S=hard
M=very hard
H=break tip

So if you like a Moori medium get a Kamui black SS or brown Medium.
Click to expand...

This is correct. As I like to say, Kamui doesn't make a "Soft" tip. Their tips start at "Hard" and get harder.
 
It seems I have fake kamuis.... they don´t last 2 months, I have a Black S on my playing cue and It´s driving me crazy. It became really hard and I miscue a lot with it, I used the gator grip, 80 grit sand paper and nothing seems to work. Some in here will say it´s the stroke, but I practiced full table length draw with my break cue (Phenolic) and no miscues at all, this kamuis are being a pain in the neck.

The brown ones feels better, but they mushroom a lot too. Maybe I´m getting fake kamuis..........
 
TSW said:
This is correct. As I like to say, Kamui doesn't make a "Soft" tip. Their tips start at "Hard" and get harder.
Click to expand...

I always thought they said it was 1 step different, not sure though. I wouldn't say they start at hard though. I don't consider the super soft tip hard by any means. Medium is a fair statement though.

why on earth did they feel that they needed to reinvent the scale? Seems like gimmicks to me.
 
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