Questions regarding the weight of a Cue (Schon)

ViolatorDM

ViolatorDM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Say I want to order a cue, a Schon for example, online... So I visit the online shop, have a look at the available cues and I'm interested in a 19oz Cue... I'm placing the order and I'm now waiting for the Cue to be sent to me...

All is well and good, but, the online shop is unable to find the Cue I want to order with a weight of 19oz...

What are they going to do? Are they going to order one from Schon or are they going to "play" with the weight so as to bring it down from 19.5oz to 19oz?

Also, what are they "supposed" to do? Are they supposed to ask for a Cue from Schon to my specifications or is Schon allowing the retailers to play about with the weight screw?

And if the weight screw IS tampered (cut, removed, changed, whatever), isn't this going to affect the weight distribution of the Cue?



Dimitris
 
Great Question but wait for all answers

Great Question but wait for all answers



ViolatorDM said:
Say I want to order a cue, a Schon for example, online... So I visit the online shop, have a look at the available cues and I'm interested in a 19oz Cue... I'm placing the order and I'm now waiting for the Cue to be sent to me...

All is well and good, but, the online shop is unable to find the Cue I want to order with a weight of 19oz...

What are they going to do? Are they going to order one from Schon or are they going to "play" with the weight so as to bring it down from 19.5oz to 19oz?

Also, what are they "supposed" to do? Are they supposed to ask for a Cue from Schon to my specifications or is Schon allowing the retailers to play about with the weight screw?

And if the weight screw IS tampered (cut, removed, changed, whatever), isn't this going to affect the weight distribution of the Cue?



Dimitris
Click to expand...
 
Well, I think your question is best asked of Schon - we are cuemakers of our own cues, not cue dealers for Schon.
However, that said, changing out a weight bolt is a 5 minute task and is a common maintenance operation to bring the weight of a cue to a customer's satisfaction.
1/2 oz of weight in the butt of the cue is not going to drastically affect the weight distribution of that cue.
My 2 cents,

Gary
 
weight balance

May I add that since you have not yet played with the cue and are not familiar with it'd prior balance, you won't know if there is a difference.
It is not something you should be concerned over. It's an off the rack cue, not a custom built cue.
 
GBCues said:
Well, I think your question is best asked of Schon - we are cuemakers of our own cues, not cue dealers for Schon.
However, that said, changing out a weight bolt is a 5 minute task and is a common maintenance operation to bring the weight of a cue to a customer's satisfaction.
1/2 oz of weight in the butt of the cue is not going to drastically affect the weight distribution of that cue.
My 2 cents,

Gary
Click to expand...

Hey Gary,

Regardless if the question is about a Schon Cue, I don't really think that this question is specific to Schon Cues as I'm also not convinced that removing the bolt is a trivial or maintenance thing to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the Cue already has the weight distribution to the front, wouldn't removing the 0.5oz bolt automatically mean that the weight will shift even more to the front, thus, affecting weight distribution?

As far as I understand, the weight bolt is there for a reason and also, the mechanics of the Cue were built having the weight bolt in mind. In my mind, the whole alignment of the Cue should be done with the weight bolt on, am I wrong? Otherwise it makes no sense, does it?

So to me the question still remains. Regardless if it is a Schon Cue or whatever, what is the proper/correct thing to do? Order one from the Cue maker to the specifications of the Customer or remove/alter the weight bolt and send it over to the Customer?


weegee3 said:
May I add that since you have not yet played with the cue and are not familiar with it'd prior balance, you won't know if there is a difference.
It is not something you should be concerned over. It's an off the rack cue, not a custom built cue.
Click to expand...

I started this thread because I've been burned in the past and I just want to make sure what the official procedure is, so as to know what to do if I order a Cue from a retailer and the retailer does not deliver what I asked for.

Roughly 8 years ago, I ordered a $700USD Cue from a very respectable online shop in the US. I ordered a 19oz Cue. They sent me a Cue that had a sticker for 19oz, but if you hold in, you'd swear it was over 20oz.

I used to have the exact same (19oz) Cue from 1993 to 2002. The Cue I had was perfect in every way. The weight distribution was 101% perfect for me (it was just a tiny bit to the front) and unless you put it on an electronic scale, you'd swear that the Cue felt like it was 18oz, no more than that. It just played like a dream!

Back to the "19oz" Cue I ordered; the weight distribution was "funny". I couldn't make out the weight distribution. Was it to the rear? Was it to the front? It seemed to be towards the rear but depending on where I was holding the Cue, it also felt as if the weight was towards the front. Then, while holding the Cue and trying to balance it on one finger near the linen wrap, the Cue would suddenly shift the weight to the front or rear, without being able to balance properly (I haven't worked at a circus but I am able to find the balance point on a Cue).

I decided to take the Cue to a Cuemaker and repairman here in Greece, so as to put it on an electronic scale. It turned out that the Cue had a sticker of 19oz, but it was actually a 20oz Cue. Also, the weight distribution was indeed to the rear-end of the Cue and not to the middle or front. The weight bolt inside it was a cut-in-half 1oz bolt (so it was a 0.5oz weight bolt).

So, according to what I saw, the Cue I ordered was originally a 20.5oz Cue and the retailer cut the weight bolt in the middle and brought it down to 20oz. We put a new 1oz weight bolt in the Cue and all of a sudden, weight distribution shifted exactly to the middle.

The Cue was still a bit too heavy for me, so I decided to modify the Cue, remove the bolt totally and bring it down to 19.5oz. Still, the Cue I'm playing with it just not the Cue I used to play with and definitely not what I ordered.

For the sake of clarification, the Cue I bought was NOT a Schon Cue!

This is why I'm asking this question; to find out what the official procedure is and what a retailer is supposed to do!

Being an engineer myself (in Computer Science), I strongly believe that when you're building something and if you're trying to build something perfect, everything you put into something you build is there for a reason.

And from that perspective, I'm really interested to find out what Cuemakers think regarding the weight distribution and what a retailer should do in a situation like the one I'm describing.
 
ViolatorDM said:
Hey Gary,

Regardless if the question is about a Schon Cue, I don't really think that this question is specific to Schon Cues as I'm also not convinced that removing the bolt is a trivial or maintenance thing to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the Cue already has the weight distribution to the front, wouldn't removing the 0.5oz bolt automatically mean that the weight will shift even more to the front, thus, affecting weight distribution?

As far as I understand, the weight bolt is there for a reason and also, the mechanics of the Cue were built having the weight bolt in mind. In my mind, the whole alignment of the Cue should be done with the weight bolt on, am I wrong? Otherwise it makes no sense, does it?

So to me the question still remains. Regardless if it is a Schon Cue or whatever, what is the proper/correct thing to do? Order one from the Cue maker to the specifications of the Customer or remove/alter the weight bolt and send it over to the Customer?




I started this thread because I've been burned in the past and I just want to make sure what the official procedure is, so as to know what to do if I order a Cue from a retailer and the retailer does not deliver what I asked for.

Roughly 8 years ago, I ordered a $700USD Cue from a very respectable online shop in the US. I ordered a 19oz Cue. They sent me a Cue that had a sticker for 19oz, but if you hold in, you'd swear it was over 20oz.

I used to have the exact same (19oz) Cue from 1993 to 2002. The Cue I had was perfect in every way. The weight distribution was 101% perfect for me (it was just a tiny bit to the front) and unless you put it on an electronic scale, you'd swear that the Cue felt like it was 18oz, no more than that. It just played like a dream!

Back to the "19oz" Cue I ordered; the weight distribution was "funny". I couldn't make out the weight distribution. Was it to the rear? Was it to the front? It seemed to be towards the rear but depending on where I was holding the Cue, it also felt as if the weight was towards the front. Then, while holding the Cue and trying to balance it on one finger near the linen wrap, the Cue would suddenly shift the weight to the front or rear, without being able to balance properly (I haven't worked at a circus but I am able to find the balance point on a Cue).

I decided to take the Cue to a Cuemaker and repairman here in Greece, so as to put it on an electronic scale. It turned out that the Cue had a sticker of 19oz, but it was actually a 20oz Cue. Also, the weight distribution was indeed to the rear-end of the Cue and not to the middle or front. The weight bolt inside it was a cut-in-half 1oz bolt (so it was a 0.5oz weight bolt).

So, according to what I saw, the Cue I ordered was originally a 20.5oz Cue and the retailer cut the weight bolt in the middle and brought it down to 20oz. We put a new 1oz weight bolt in the Cue and all of a sudden, weight distribution shifted exactly to the middle.

The Cue was still a bit too heavy for me, so I decided to modify the Cue, remove the bolt totally and bring it down to 19.5oz. Still, the Cue I'm playing with it just not the Cue I used to play with and definitely not what I ordered.

For the sake of clarification, the Cue I bought was NOT a Schon Cue!

This is why I'm asking this question; to find out what the official procedure is and what a retailer is supposed to do!

Being an engineer myself (in Computer Science), I strongly believe that when you're building something and if you're trying to build something perfect, everything you put into something you build is there for a reason.

And from that perspective, I'm really interested to find out what Cuemakers think regarding the weight distribution and what a retailer should do in a situation like the one I'm describing.
Click to expand...

Sorry but with the weights and descriptions you just presented something is dead wrong in your equations. If by taking a 1/2 ounce off of the weight bolt in the rear by the dealer affects the cue in a discernable way it would be moving the balance point forward, not towards the rear. By making the bolt in the rear of the cue heavier, the balance point will shift toward the rear of the cue.

Most factory cues are manufactured so that they weigh between 17-18 ounce with no weight bolt. They then add weight bolts in different lengths (weight) so that the cue will then weigh what they want from 17-21 ounce or so.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
Sorry but with the weights and descriptions you just presented something is dead wrong in your equations. If by taking a 1/2 ounce off of the weight bolt in the rear by the dealer affects the cue in a discernable way it would be moving the balance point forward, not towards the rear. By making the bolt in the rear of the cue heavier, the balance point will shift toward the rear of the cue.

Most factory cues are manufactured so that they weigh between 17-18 ounce with no weight bolt. They then add weight bolts in different lengths (weight) so that the cue will then weigh what they want from 17-21 ounce or so.

Dick
Click to expand...

They couldn't care less what the balance point or sweet spot ( weight ) of their cues.
I've seen 5" long weight bolts.
The OP has custom cue taste but likes production cues.
The dealer did what's best for him. Switched the sticker .

Dimitris, easy solution is to order a cue to your liking.
 
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rhncue said:
Sorry but with the weights and descriptions you just presented something is dead wrong in your equations. If by taking a 1/2 ounce off of the weight bolt in the rear by the dealer affects the cue in a discernable way it would be moving the balance point forward, not towards the rear. By making the bolt in the rear of the cue heavier, the balance point will shift toward the rear of the cue.

Most factory cues are manufactured so that they weigh between 17-18 ounce with no weight bolt. They then add weight bolts in different lengths (weight) so that the cue will then weigh what they want from 17-21 ounce or so.

Dick
Click to expand...

I don't know for a fact what the retailer did. I'm just trying to explain how the Cue felt in my hand.

The repairman showed me that the way was indeed to the rear and when he removed the half-bolt and added what appeared to be the "original" 1oz bolt, the weight distribution changed to a dead-center.

But still the Cue was too heave for me so I removed the bolt all together and the cue came down to 19.5oz including the original shaft that the Cue came with or with a Predator 314 that I bought together with the Cue.

After removing the bolt completely, the Cue did feel a lot lighter, with the weight distribution to the front, but the fact of the matter remains; I did NOT order such a Cue and what happened is that the Cue was altered beyond the alignment that was performed by the Cuemaker.

So my question still remains; what is a retailer supposed to do, when the Cue that was ordered is not in his stock but there is a Cue available close to what was ordered. Is he supposed to alter the weight bolt in some way or is he supposed to order a new Cue by the Cuemaker, to the specifications of the person ordering the Cue?
 
ViolatorDM said:
I don't know for a fact what the retailer did. I'm just trying to explain how the Cue felt in my hand.

The repairman showed me that the way was indeed to the rear and when he removed the half-bolt and added what appeared to be the "original" 1oz bolt, the weight distribution changed to a dead-center.

But still the Cue was too heave for me so I removed the bolt all together and the cue came down to 19.5oz including the original shaft that the Cue came with or with a Predator 314 that I bought together with the Cue.

After removing the bolt completely, the Cue did feel a lot lighter, with the weight distribution to the front, but the fact of the matter remains; I did NOT order such a Cue and what happened is that the Cue was altered beyond the alignment that was performed by the Cuemaker.

So my question still remains; what is a retailer supposed to do, when the Cue that was ordered is not in his stock but there is a Cue available close to what was ordered. Is he supposed to alter the weight bolt in some way or is he supposed to order a new Cue by the Cuemaker, to the specifications of the person ordering the Cue?
Click to expand...
Since factories do it that way too, why can't he cut the bolt down himself ?
 
First of all, balancing the cue on your finger is not really the way to do it...it's kind of tippy. Try a string with a loop; it works much better this way.

"So my question still remains; what is a retailer supposed to do, when the Cue that was ordered is not in his stock but there is a Cue available close to what was ordered. Is he supposed to alter the weight bolt in some way or is he supposed to order a new Cue by the Cuemaker, to the specifications of the person ordering the Cue?"

Great question.

Buying a production cue is like buying a suit off the rack. If you like the way it fits, great. But if it is not quite right, it can be tailored to your personal taste, which of course takes it a nice step higher and, short of custom made, is the best you can do.

Same with cues. Altering the weight bolt to taylor it to your taste is the next best thing to custom made. As mentioned above, cues are built with that in mind, so that an off-the-rack cue can be personalized to suit your taste by adding or removing weight.

You might even want to get some extra weight bolts of various weights so you can experiment and really dial it in for yourself.

Robin Snyder
 
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JoeyInCali said:
They couldn't care less what the balance point or sweet spot ( weight ) of their cues.
I've seen 5" long weight bolts.
The OP has custom cue taste but likes production cues.
The dealer did what's best for him. Switched the sticker .

Dimitris, easy solution is to order a cue to your liking.
Click to expand...

See, this is what I mean :D

Say I order a Cue which will be double the value of the Cue I ordered... What am I supposed to do if they do send me a Cue, so f*cked up as the previous one I ordered? It goes without saying that I will most definitely NOT going to order from the same online store ever again!

But what would you do? Would you risk it or not?

I'm hoping to get a definite answer from Schon, stating what the retailer should do or should not do, so as to have some kind of proof in my hands, in the event that I do order a Cue and the Cue I receive is not what I ordered...

Again, the Cue I ordered back then was NOT a Schon Custom Cue!
 
one other point is my Schon's weight bolt is glued in. So you have to heat it up to get it out
 
JoeyInCali said:
Since factories do it that way too, why can't he cut the bolt down himself ?
Click to expand...

This is what I'm trying to figure out. If what the retailer did was the same thing that the Cuemaker or factory would do, then I should quit my nagging and accept that what was done was the correct thing.

Maybe I'm just overreacting because as I explained, I used to play with the same Cue from 1993 - 2002 and I was expecting to receive the exact same Cue.

I'm not saying that I'm not wrong, I'm just trying to figure things out!
 
Hungarian said:
one other point is my Schon's weight bolt is glued in. So you have to heat it up to get it out
Click to expand...

What I ordered back then was not a Schon and the weight bolt was not glued in. It appeared to be cut in half, judging by the edges at the finish of the weight bolt.
 
carguy said:
First of all, balancing the cue on your finger is not really the way to do it...it's kind of tippy. Try a string with a loop; it works much better this way.

"So my question still remains; what is a retailer supposed to do, when the Cue that was ordered is not in his stock but there is a Cue available close to what was ordered. Is he supposed to alter the weight bolt in some way or is he supposed to order a new Cue by the Cuemaker, to the specifications of the person ordering the Cue?"

Great question.

Buying a production cue is like buying a suit off the rack. If you like the way it fits, great. But if it is not quite right, it can be tailored to your personal taste, which of course takes it a nice step higher and, short of custom made, is the best you can do.

Same with cues. Altering the weight bolt to taylor it to your taste is the next best thing to custom made. As mentioned above, cues are built with that in mind, so that an off-the-rack cue can be personalized to suit your taste by adding or removing weight.

You might even want to get some extra weight bolts of various weights so you can experiment and really dial it in for yourself.

Robin Snyder
Click to expand...

I was just trying to identify if the point of balance from the new Cue was the same as the one in my old Cue and it was not. The balance point on the new Cue was approximately 3 fingers towards the bottom of the Cue. Also, while I was able to balance my old Cue on my finger, I wasn't able to balance the new Cue in any way. This is what got me into thinking and decided to take the Cue to the repairman (plus the fact that the new Cue was playing quite crappy :mad:)
 
ViolatorDM said:
This is what I'm trying to figure out. If what the retailer did was the same thing that the Cuemaker or factory would do, then I should quit my nagging and accept that what was done was the correct thing.

Maybe I'm just overreacting because as I explained, I used to play with the same Cue from 1993 - 2002 and I was expecting to receive the exact same Cue.

I'm not saying that I'm not wrong, I'm just trying to figure things out!
Click to expand...

I'd hate to be your waiter at a restaurant.
 
ViolatorDM said:
This is what I'm trying to figure out. If what the retailer did was the same thing that the Cuemaker or factory would do, then I should quit my nagging and accept that what was done was the correct thing.

Maybe I'm just overreacting because as I explained, I used to play with the same Cue from 1993 - 2002 and I was expecting to receive the exact same Cue.

I'm not saying that I'm not wrong, I'm just trying to figure things out!
Click to expand...

I've always seen changing or modifying weight bolts on production cues as just a routine thing that many people want done. I do it all the time for customers on all kinds of cues. It's the single most straightforward thing one can do to taylor a cue to the player besides changing the tip.

I don't really see it as a big issue.

Robin Snyder
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'd hate to be your waiter at a restaurant.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahaha, no, it's not like that :D

Maybe I was disappointed because I expected a Cue like the one I used to have and what I got was not the same.

Also, I know nothing of the manufacturing process of a Cue!

However, I think you agree with me that what the retailer did was wrong! :thumbup:
 
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carguy said:
I've always seen changing or modifying weight bolts on production cues as just a routine thing that many people want done. I do it all the time for customers on all kinds of cues. It's the single most straightforward thing one can do to taylor a cue to the player besides changing the tip.

I don't really see it as a big issue.

Robin Snyder
Click to expand...

Would you change the weight of the Cue to match the weight that the Customer ordered and then change the sticker on it? :grin-square:
 
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