I hadn't noticed, to be honest. Guess I wasn't focused on that aspect.
Looks like real short shorts though, not underwear. ??
'Pendulum' Stroke 'Sweet Spot' ?
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I hadn't noticed, to be honest. Guess I wasn't focused on that aspect.
Looks like real short shorts though, not underwear. ??One last time---the pendulum stroke is called that because it resembles a pendulum when viewed from the elbow. The elbow should not move much if at all, and the forearm swings. Hence, pendulum resemblance. It does NOT refer to the action of the actual pool cue.
How level the cue stays with a pendulum stroke is dependent on what type of grip you use. And, that's all it is. It is not an indicator of what type of stroke you are using.
How level the cue stays with a pendulum stroke is dependent on what type of grip you use. And, that's all it is. It is not an indicator of what type of stroke you are using.
I hadn't noticed, to be honest. Guess I wasn't focused on that aspect.
What that video is --- is ridiculous.
Are you calling the content ridiculous, or just don't like the guy showing it?
I can't get past the underwear.
I had that same problem more often than I liked in my younger years.
Okay,
Neil, I quoted you for the content but this is really directed to anyone.
Who would like to differentiate a true pendulum stroke from a true piston stroke?
I had thought in the past that some were praising a piston stroke while calling it a pendulum stroke & now from these videos it seems even more apparent, at least to me.
What is the defining difference between the two?
Thanks to anyone who undertakes the chore.
Regards to All,
Violinists use a bow stroke that hinges at the elbow similar to a pure pendulum stroke, only sideways. They must keep the bow going perfectly straight for the entire 24" of bow travel, not just a 2" sweet spot. If they fail to do this they will end up playing on the string adjacent to the one they intend to play on.
How is this accomplished? The answer is in the wrist, as was pointed out above regarding the pool stroke.
How is this accomplished? The answer is in the wrist, as was pointed out above regarding the pool stroke.
Thanks,
I appreciate your attempt to help.
But...to just say it is the wrist is not a real answer. The normal wrist action actually accentuates the slope of the arc as the arm swings like a pendulum. I don't play violin but I think they have some movement of the upper arm from the shoulder available to them.
Thanks again,
Thank you again Sir,
By that simple 'definition', there are many different 'pendulum' strokes depending on grip & wrist actions just as long as the elbow does not drop.
I have learned a few things from this thread.
Nothing that I will take to the tabel to help my game but I am a bit enlightened as to the lack of specifics in stroke delineations.
By this simple definition, if one intends to use a pendulum stroke but the elbow moves, then it was not a pendulum stroke. Just what it would be, I am not sure, but it would not be a pendulum stroke.
Pool is well behind golf.
I am amazed at how difficult it was to get to a conclusion.
Thank you again for all of your help.
Regards & Best Wishes,
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I have always thought that one of the main advantages of the so called pendulum stroke is that with no elbow drop fewer muscle groups are used in pocketing balls and moving the cue ball to the desired spot. It has definitely helped my game--and frankly that is all I am interested in.
Thanks to all.
Thanks to all.
Gary,
I totally agree with you that the results for each individual should obviously be the bottom line regardless of what the stroke actually is or what it is or is not 'called'.
I also feel that it does not matter whether or not the elbow moves or stays still as long as the cue & the tip send the cue ball where intended & with an amount of vertical, horizontal, or combined spin that one wants to put on the ball so the results including where & how the cue ball goes after colliding with the object balls &/or the rails is as intended.
I feel that it is best accomplished most consistently if the cue & the tip is moving into & through the cue ball along a straight line path.
With my new found 'simple' definition of what constitutes 'pendulum' strokes apparently that can be accomplished with one such stroke but I now feel that the 'grip' that one uses along with their 'pendulum' stroke is vitally crucial to obtaining the desired consistency.
I feel that one's goal should be to get the cue & the tip to move in a straight line during the stroke. If that means that the elbow has to drop due to the grip that one is using, so be it. Or...one should change their grip to incorporate the required accomodating 'grip action'.
By the simple definition, it has become apparent to me that a certain 'grip action' must happen in a pendulum stroke for the cue & tip to consistenly move in a straight line.
For that straight line movement to ocurr in one of the 'pendulum' strokes something else must move with it. A 'normal' loose wrist action that would go along with a 'pendulum' swing of the arm due to the momentum actually goes against getting the cue to stay more level & straight. That is, unless a 'grip action' accomodates it to nuetralize the up & down movement that a pendulum movement creates.
So... with all of that being said I feel any instruction regarding a pendulum stroke should focus on this accomodating 'grip action'.
This brings up the question of what is more simple. Is it the 'grip action' or is it an elbow drop as the cue goes back, a scissor action.
Sorry for attaching all of this to your post. The thoughts just flowed out due to the focus of the last couple of days.
Again I agree with you. It is all about one's individual results & whatever gets it done for each individual.
I am very glad you have found what works for you.
Regards & Best Wishes,
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The wrist hinges "backwards," like a piston on a rod. An overly loose grip isn't neccessary. :thumbup:
We both agree that Happy Gilmore's mechanics are fine as long as he makes his shots and gets his position. I'm sure we both agree that the more conventional they are the better.
What do you base this on? How accurately does a stroke have to be straight for a player to be consistent?
I really don't understand all the fuss. Pendulum stroke has been defined so many times. If you don't understand it, or it's benefits, that's okay. If you think a piston stroke is better because it works for you, that's fine as well.
I'll put it another way.
If two players have perfect repeatable (100% of the time) strokes, and one is pendulum, and the other is piston. They could go back and forth shooting the same shots, and there would never be a difference in what the CB does. Provided each shot they shoot that's the same, is shot with the same speed, same alignment, and same contact area on the CB. So therefore if you already play well using one type, there wouldn't be much of a point to switching.
What it all comes down to is personal preference. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep an open mind and be willing to try something new. I tried dropping my elbow and practiced that way for a few months. Now I don't do it anymore, or if I do, it's very minimal, and not on every single shot.
I'll put it another way.
If two players have perfect repeatable (100% of the time) strokes, and one is pendulum, and the other is piston. They could go back and forth shooting the same shots, and there would never be a difference in what the CB does. Provided each shot they shoot that's the same, is shot with the same speed, same alignment, and same contact area on the CB. So therefore if you already play well using one type, there wouldn't be much of a point to switching.
What it all comes down to is personal preference. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep an open mind and be willing to try something new. I tried dropping my elbow and practiced that way for a few months. Now I don't do it anymore, or if I do, it's very minimal, and not on every single shot.
Please keep in mind that a 'normal' wrist movement from the momentum of the arm swing which would be 'natural' would accentuate the inclined slope angle of the cue.
A 'normal' wrist action does not in any way off set the angle created by the arm swinging up.
If one grabs the cue tight with no 'grip action' or 'feathering' open then the angle is dependent on the arm swinging up. If the arm & butt end connected to it swing up then the tip moves down & vise versa.
It would take a 'reverse' wrist action to counter the up swing of the forearm.
Keep in mind that the point of this thread was to find out how & what biomechanism would allow or make the cue & tip move in a straight line for several inches.
It has become apparent that with a fixed elbow the mechanism is a 'grip action' that without such the butt of the cue would raise up which makes the tip go down & vise versa.
Apparently there are many 'pendulum' strokes. A pendulum stroke is ANY stroke where the elbow does not move during the stroke.
There can be a 'pendulum' stroke with or without wrist action & there can be a pendulum stroke with or without a 'grip action'. The key is that any stroke where the elbow does not move is a 'pendulum' stroke.
Your wrist comment may or may not be applicable depending on an accomodating 'grip action'.
I hope you can see the biomechanics.
Regards,
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What point are you trying to make. Are you saying that it is easier to judge a curving tip than a tip moving in a straight line?
Regards,
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