Killing The Cue Ball

Sloppy Pockets

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is the textbook way to limit CB sideways motion during a draw? I seem to have read contradicting things about killing the CB when using a draw stroke on a cut shot. Straight draw, outside spin, inside spin have all been mentioned. I have iffy results with all of these methods.

I see the pros shooting at a slight cut and drawing the ball straight back. I may be mistaken, but I believe I once saw Hendry use what looked like extreme low inside to actually make the CB draw in the other direction (cut to the right, CB draws back to the right). Is this possible, and if so, how do you accomplish this, and what are the extremes of cut angle within which this can be done?
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
What is the textbook way to limit CB sideways motion during a draw? I seem to have read contradicting things about killing the CB when using a draw stroke on a cut shot. Straight draw, outside spin, inside spin have all been mentioned. I have iffy results with all of these methods.

I see the pros shooting at a slight cut and drawing the ball straight back. I may be mistaken, but I believe I once saw Hendry use what looked like extreme low inside to actually make the CB draw in the other direction (cut to the right, CB draws back to the right). Is this possible, and if so, how do you accomplish this, and what are the extremes of cut angle within which this can be done?
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"Delayed masse" is a standard technique. One example is shooting a spot shot and getting the cue ball to stop on contact with the object ball. This technique was the topic of a long discussion here. It is probably most used by top balkline players who, for example, have to drive the first ball straight ahead but get the cue ball to go sideways to the second object ball.

Lou Butera used to demonstrate the technique in his exhibitions where he would have the last two object balls in a 14.1 rack near each other but the position would be on the wrong side of the "key" ball. He would cut the ball in, the cue ball would go for a short distance and then reverse and come back for break position.

As for simpler shots with a nearly flat cue stick, we did an experiment at a billiard expo one time (with Fred Agnir and John Barton, as I recall) and the result was that plain draw was as good as draw with side. When the cue ball is very close to the object ball this may change -- in our tests they were about a foot apart.

If you are going to try the elevated shot, start with easy shots and not so much elevation and shoot softly. You can get remarkable action shooting softly on this shot.
 
Are you talking about a shot like this?

h0QOxGjyPkD63IjAgMlZ.png
 
Thanks, Bob. That's along the lines of what I'm talking about. I hadn't thought about adding elevation as well as spin. I'll take this to the table later and see if gets me what I'm trying to accomplish, which is more of a finesse shot as opposed to one where I'm trying to really move the CB
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Thanks, Bob. That's along the lines of what I'm talking about. I hadn't thought about adding elevation as well as spin. I'll take this to the table later and see if gets me what I'm trying to accomplish, which is more of a finesse shot as opposed to one where I'm trying to really move the CB
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Here is Mike Page's video explanation of this kind of shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZAqHno_Kr4
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Yes, that is what I was trying to do. I was thinking it was some sort of throw effect, so I was trying to do it with side alone. I see now that the CB reaction is coming from the applied masse and occurs after contact with the OB rather than at contact. Thanks again.
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If there is some cue-ball curve before contact, it helps as well.

For shots that are close, "helping" side spin is sometimes enough to stop the cue ball but still take the object ball at a small angle, but the cue ball has to be very close to the object ball. A diamond is too far. At some point you have to use the other side of spin and elevate. I think the best drill to learn this with is the "ring around the side" drill. Here is an explanation: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2001-04.pdf

See also: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html
 
Bob Jewett said:
If there is some cue-ball curve before contact, it helps as well.

For shots that are close, "helping" side spin is sometimes enough to stop the cue ball but still take the object ball at a small angle, but the cue ball has to be very close to the object ball. A diamond is too far. At some point you have to use the other side of spin and elevate. I think the best drill to learn this with is the "ring around the side" drill. Here is an explanation: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2001-04.pdf

See also: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html
Click to expand...

More stuff! I love it.

It seems I have been under the spell of some bad information regarding CB-OB collisions. Probably some pretty sloppy observing as well. Apparently, what I think I see when watching great players may not be all that is happening for a given shot. I see something remarkable and automatically assume I can't do it because I lack the skill. But what if I'm wrong about everything that really happened? Maybe it can't be done at all.

Food for thought...
 
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