Another 8-ball rules question

B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
If you're shooting the 8-ball and miss and scratch the CB, is that loss of game?

The rule (below) is unclear. It says "when pocketing the 8-ball". Do they mean any attempt to pocket the 8-ball, or only if the 8-ball is pocketed?


4.20 LOSS OF GAME
A player loses the game by committing any of the following infractions:
1. Fouls when pocketing the 8-ball (exception: see 8-Ball Pocketed On The
Break).
2. Pockets the 8-ball on the same stroke as the last of his group of balls.
3. Jumps the 8-ball off the table at any time.
4. Pockets the 8-ball in a pocket other than the one designated.
5. Pockets the 8-ball when it is not the legal object ball.
 
bdorman said:
If you're shooting the 8-ball and miss and scratch the CB, is that loss of game?

The rule (below) is unclear. It says "when pocketing the 8-ball". Do they mean any attempt to pocket the 8-ball, or only if the 8-ball is pocketed?


4.20 LOSS OF GAME
A player loses the game by committing any of the following infractions:
1. Fouls when pocketing the 8-ball (exception: see 8-Ball Pocketed On The
Break).
2. Pockets the 8-ball on the same stroke as the last of his group of balls.
3. Jumps the 8-ball off the table at any time.
4. Pockets the 8-ball in a pocket other than the one designated.
5. Pockets the 8-ball when it is not the legal object ball.
Click to expand...



If this is BCA rules then it is not a loss. BIH to your opponent.
 
BCA, VNEA are not loses certain bars you lose if you scratch and other bars you don't lose. Also depends on who your playing.


Reading my posts means you consent to my incorrect spelling and poor typing skills.
 
"real" rules are no loss unless you make the 8 ball and scratch. Missing and scratching is just BIH.

You're best bet is to miss the 8 ball and then corner hook the other guy when you're both on the 8. It's the most horrible way to lose.
 
The rule you are quoting has been obsolete since 1/1/2008.

The current applicable WSR is:

3.8 Losing the Rack
The shooter loses if he
(a) fouls when pocketing the eight ball;
(b) pockets the eight ball before his group is cleared;
(c) pockets the eight ball in an uncalled pocket; or
(d) drives the eight ball off the table.
These do not apply to the break shot.

While I will admit that (a) could have been written a little more succinctly, it takes quite a stretch of the lexicon to include an unsuccessful attempt to pocket the 8-ball.

The current BCAPL rule applicable to the specific OP question is Rule 2-10-a, and leaves absolutely no room for doubt:

You lose the game if you illegally pocket the 8-ball


:smile:
Buddy Eick
CSI National Head Referee
CSI Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League
bca_referee@yahoo.com

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* Unless specifically stated, the contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Unless specifically stated, no reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post.
* Neither I, nor any BCAPL referee, make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
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* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
 
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I'm not sure this is really clear. The way I understand the question, if the OP shoots at the 8 ball "and misses and scratches" (as if he miscues and never touches the 8 ball) is this loss of game?
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I'm not sure this is really clear. The way I understand the question, if the OP shoots at the 8 ball "and misses and scratches" (as if he miscues and never touches the 8 ball) is this loss of game?
Click to expand...



APA it is loss of game. Playing random people in a bar is most likely loss of game. BCA is not loss of game.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I'm not sure this is really clear. The way I understand the question, if the OP shoots at the 8 ball "and misses and scratches" (as if he miscues and never touches the 8 ball) is this loss of game?
Click to expand...

Hi Tennessee, Buddy's answer (and the newer 2012 rule book -- I was looking at an older version) makes it clear that if the 8-ball is not pocketed it is not loss of game.

The problem or misunderstanding is because the rule is written in the passive tense...always a no-no for clear writing. "1. Fouls when pocketing the 8-ball" Passive tense ("pocketing") rarely clarifies whether an action actually happened (i.e. does "pocketing" mean he pocketed the 8-ball or that he attempted to pocket the 8-ball?)

Active tense is much clearer: "Pockets the 8-ball and fouls."
 
bdorman said:
Hi Tennessee, Buddy's answer (and the newer 2012 rule book -- I was looking at an older version) makes it clear that if the 8-ball is not pocketed it is not loss of game.

The problem or misunderstanding is because the rule is written in the passive tense...always a no-no for clear writing. "1. Fouls when pocketing the 8-ball" Passive tense ("pocketing") rarely clarifies whether an action actually happened (i.e. does "pocketing" mean he pocketed the 8-ball or that he attempted to pocket the 8-ball?)

Active tense is much clearer: "Pockets the 8-ball and fouls."
Click to expand...

In the words of Wade Garrett..."Ex-actly right."
 
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