snooker aiming vs pool aiming
- Thread starter jackpot
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Accurately ;-)
Ya think??? I thought that was a bar box ronnie was running out on, sure looked that easy to me:smile::smile::smile:
There have been some posts on thesnookerforum regarding aiming. All of the players there use either back of the ball aiming, ghost ball or fractional aiming, generally nothing too exotic. They use these methods as more of beginning guide to finding the angle. Rather they obsess to varying degrees over mechanics and fundamentals. It is not generally advised in snooker to use helping english, though I have heard Graeme Dott plays every shot with a little bit of side. Not consistent inside or outside english as CJ proposes, Graeme apparently uses whatever form of english that feels right for the shot. But if that's true, he is the exception rather than the norm.
.it must be easy,
He can do it left handed just as well....it must be easy, right?
ronnie o'sulliven left handed snooker
He can do it left handed just as well....it must be easy, right?
ronnie o'sulliven left handed snooker
how hard can it be to poke a ball in a hole with a stick
For snooker players, generally side (english) would be used as a last resort for position play, let alone altering the resultant angle of the impact between object ball and cue ball. So I doubt any snooker players aim with a "touch of anything".
Thanks Dave, i truly used to believe what you just posted; but it turns out to be after 30 years of playing that the tip contact point while warming up and pausing is not really where it ends up at when tip contacts the CB; sure it is extremely close, but certainly not at the exact spot intended every time. The unfortunate truth as CJ said and others the tip could go to right, left, top, bottom of the intended CP at impact, or slightly before; especially if you have, small tip, soft tip, long bridge, and your tip is say more than 2" from CB during pause, loose/hard grip, and other factors.
With snooker tip being 8 and 9 mm, i will be highly surprised if snooker players are not using TOI. I was shocked of how Shane use english on CB, watch his interview from TAR.
I am not saying you are wrong, i am saying i just discovered i was wrong after 30 years of play. It takes years to really know if you are wrong or not in pool without having a good coach to guide you.
Played snooker since I was 6 and never adjusted the angle with side when I could see the potting angle. I've spoken with some of the great players of the game and none of them have ever mentioned adjusting the angle with spin.
That being said, they do throw balls with side when they can't get to the potting angle with plain ball. Comes up rarely, but it happens.
When it comes to aiming in snooker you will be hard pushed to find a player that knows of CTE, SEE or anything else other than ghost ball, fractional and parallel aiming systems. They tend to just visualise the shot, and rely on past experience to know what pots the ball. Attention is paid to the stroke and stance rather than how to aim. If you have a stroke you can replicate over and over, its easier to understand why you miss, so you can adjust your aim next time rather than wondering if it was your stroke or your aim that let you down.
That being said, they do throw balls with side when they can't get to the potting angle with plain ball. Comes up rarely, but it happens.
When it comes to aiming in snooker you will be hard pushed to find a player that knows of CTE, SEE or anything else other than ghost ball, fractional and parallel aiming systems. They tend to just visualise the shot, and rely on past experience to know what pots the ball. Attention is paid to the stroke and stance rather than how to aim. If you have a stroke you can replicate over and over, its easier to understand why you miss, so you can adjust your aim next time rather than wondering if it was your stroke or your aim that let you down.
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One of the most talented and enjoyable players I have ever seen. I really enjoy watching him play.
I'm naturally right handed. An old friend of mine told me years ago to learn to play left handed........and I do. Best advise I ever got. It kinda freaks people out when I switch to left rather than use a bridge to shoot right handed.
Thanks for the post CJ. :wink:
John
I took snooker coaching when I was 18, and all snooker players are told to use center ball striking as much as possible. The main reason being that the distances involved can be large and if use english, the cue ball will go off its intended path, especially over larger distances.
Also in snooker, you want to focus your positional play mostly in the bottom half of the table around the black and the pink. That requires soft stun shots and draw shots and simple follow. You aren't going from one end of the table to the other for position on your next shot.
Also, there is not much traffic on the table compared to pool. So you don't have to use english as much to alter the path of the cue ball.
As far as aiming, most of the players I know use the most trusted system. Good fundamentals and hit a million balls
I am not buying any of this thread except what was said regarding Ronnie O.
or long shots best played with center ball. How do you suppose a player gets good on the next shot? Center ball? I doubt it. Just because the table is a little bigger,pockets smaller, etc the game remains the same. the balls are still round. do you guys ever watch a u tube video or anything? Snooker requires every bit as much spin as pool. They just do it that much better.
me.
or long shots best played with center ball. How do you suppose a player gets good on the next shot? Center ball? I doubt it. Just because the table is a little bigger,pockets smaller, etc the game remains the same. the balls are still round. do you guys ever watch a u tube video or anything? Snooker requires every bit as much spin as pool. They just do it that much better.
me.
I grew up playing snooker and while all this center (centre for Brits and Canadian's) ball stuff is "mostly" true on long shots etc...you can bet your life they all use "English/side" to move the cue ball around.
Note a couple of things for those who are not familiar with playing on heavy nap:
You don't think top caliber snooker players don't spin the ball. Go to youtube and go check Jimmy White or Alex Higgins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dBTngKnX1Q
Nick B
Note a couple of things for those who are not familiar with playing on heavy nap:
- Shot played up table is kind of like playing slighty up hill...soft balls will fall towards the side
- softly spun balls will walk against the nap and actually swearve backwards to what you expect
- Balls will not spin off the rails as much as they would on a pool table (this is due to the flat faced rails)
- Heavy cloth is easier to draw/follow than on a pool table so draw is used more often for shape
You don't think top caliber snooker players don't spin the ball. Go to youtube and go check Jimmy White or Alex Higgins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dBTngKnX1Q
Nick B
Last night I played on some tight chinese 8 ball tables, basically miniature snooker tables. Could not make a ball using a snooker cue using cte to aim with. I switched to a pool cue and not only immediately started making my shots but I had several great outs. I cut a ball into the side from an impossible position in the last game and ran out from there. As Vince said it TCOM they were about to build me a trophy wall. So I don't know anything about snooker but I can report that CTE aiming with snooker sized balls and pockets works really well.
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here is a link to a thread I put up in april on the same subject.
give it a while to get going.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=317840
give it a while to get going.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=317840
One important factor to consider in pool and snooker balls & CB sizes, their weight, cloth friction, and speed of the shot. It is a balance act and takes experience to ensure OB direction after collision. Both pool and snooker pro players do not baby balls to the holes, they hit them with speed to ensure # 1 swerve is not a factor "much", and OB throw is at minimal. Snooker IMO requires higher CB speed, and more sides english (tip offset) (not bottom or top) than pool for same shot angle/distances to cancel or almost cancel throw due to higher cloth friction, even though OB & CB is lighter in weight. Swerve in snooker is very dangerous and cue elevation is a huge issue, this is why chin touches cue so each shot have consistent stance, in turn cue elevation, not necessarily for aiming- IMO.
naji:
First, it would be really helpful if you actually play snooker before commenting on things like snooker players' aiming, fundamentals, ability to actually hit where they're aiming, etc. I say this, because it's obvious you've never played snooker, or if you have, you haven't studied it seriously. It's very easy to create hypotheses on things you "see" but haven't experienced, but until you have the experience, it's just that -- hypothesis.
Second, snooker players OBSESS over their fundamentals, and they OBSESS over hitting the ball exactly where they want -- most often centerball / center axis. This isn't like pool where a loosey-goosey stance where the body is angled over the cue, and there's a certain margin of error built-in to every shot via the much looser pockets, chiseled-face pockets, and closer distances. This isn't like pool where it's easy to implement "adjustments" (BandAids) for those "just in case I don't cut the ball enough / too much" instances. In snooker, you either hit the ball exactly where you intend -- and make the shot if your aim was correct -- or you don't and you miss.
As a reader exercise, I ask that you watch an entire snooker match from start to end. Not just "reel highlights" of Ronnie e.g. switching hands from shot to shot. I mean actual matches where you get to see the opening break, and the subsequent "come with it" shot from the other player (which is most often a nearly entire length of the table shot). Watch as the camera gets down in front of the player and behind the object ball, so that you can see how the player lines up (aligns him/herself to the cue), and how the cue is lined-up to the cue ball. Watch how the player feathers the cue (takes practice strokes), and then fires. Tell me if you see any variance in how the cue is delivered vs. the practice strokes. (You won't.)
Compare this to pool players, and sure (of course!), you can see variance -- especially in players who, e.g., line-up (and take practice strokes) low on the cue ball, but then "come up" on the delivery to hit the cue ball where they really intend to. You will never see this in snooker. Never. (I should qualify this by saying "at least in the semi-pro and pro ranks." Of course you may see this from a pool player trying to play snooker, but then that's an entirely different animal, and the potting abilities will show it, too.)
^^^This (especially the bolded part). If we're going to use forum posts and questions as an example, compare the sheer number of folks asking about fundamentals vs. "aiming," and you'll see the landslide favor in fundamentals. Questions about aiming in snooker do exist, yes, but they are a trickle compared to the torrent about fundamentals. Fundamentals are where all that accuracy is at -- being able to deliver the cue at your aim point. Not "where is the aim point," nor "how do I compensate and build-in a BandAid for my slop in my fundamentals."
-Sean
Your assumptions are wrong, i played 5 years of snooker, and 30 years of pool, and every other week i shoot and practice on a 6x12 snooker table. It is ok not to agree with me, in fact it will be boring if everyone agrees with everyone else, then we would not write and talk to each other. I stand by what i said take it or leave it; plus most likely this is how you shoot and do not know it. It takes years to know what you are doing in pool.
Example, look at how pros break in 9 ball, their tip is extremely low, where does the CB go, it stays at middle of the table, why? a home work for you.
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