Do the Aramith twins juice a cue ball???

[Bob 14:1]

I clean the cue ball every ten racks or so. I'm using a measle ball and Centennials, and ten month old 860. I vacuum the cloth weekly and brush the cloth about ever ten racks also.

If I clean the cue ball with either of the Aramith products alone, or in conjunction with each other, I notice a pronounced increase in my ability to draw.

I set an object ball at mid table with the cue ball about two diamonds away, I can consistently and with very little effort draw the cue ball back to the head rail and it frequently rebounds off the head rail.

With both products being branded by Aramith, the world's premier ball manufacturer, I'm finding it hard to believe that their own proprietary ball treatment is juicing my cue ball.

The Aramith Cleaner label even goes so far as to recommend using the cleaner "(Ideally after each game)". I wondering if this final instruction is to sell more product, or by having the user clean so frequently, they then may not notice this juicing effect??? BTW, not doing a hatchet job on these two products. They do an excellent job. I'm merely wondering what produces this radical increase in ball action.

I'd be very interested in your experiences or inputs. Thank you all!!! :thumbup:

 

[Ghosst]

I would never put a cueball in my juice, then there's no room for Vodka. When I put juice on my cueball it skids more often so I find that bad as well.

 

[barking4action]

I use a diamond ball clean and mcguires car wax and I have noticed the same effect. With a strong stroke it looks like the ball peels and for a moment then races ove a table and a half. Note to everyone. Clean your balls daily!

 

[Dopc]

I clean the cue ball every ten racks or so. I'm using a measle ball and Centennials, and ten month old 860. I vacuum the cloth weekly and brush the cloth about ever ten racks also.

If I clean the cue ball with either of the Aramith products alone, or in conjunction with each other, I notice a pronounced increase in my ability to draw.

I set an object ball at mid table with the cue ball about two diamonds away, I can consistently and with very little effort draw the cue ball back to the head rail and it frequently rebounds off the head rail.

With both products being branded by Aramith, the world's premier ball manufacturer, I'm finding it hard to believe that their own proprietary ball treatment is juicing my cue ball.

The Aramith Cleaner label even goes so far as to recommend using the cleaner "(Ideally after each game)". I wondering if this final instruction is to sell more product, or by having the user clean so frequently, they then may not notice this juicing effect??? BTW, not doing a hatchet job on these two products. They do an excellent job. I'm merely wondering what produces this radical increase in ball action.

I'd be very interested in your experiences or inputs. Thank you all!!! :thumbup:

I don't have a definitive answer to your inquiry, but will add my thoughts and opinions. I as well, do a daily or every other day vacuum of my 860hr and brush as needed or desired. I also built a DIY polisher and spent weeks getting it tweaked to near perfect effectiveness. What I mean by tweaking is getting it to actually polish the balls rather than just rolling the balls. Second, was keeping the balls from colliding with one another causing the collision dots many complain of with this setup. I'm very happy with it and the balls come out great after their daily cycles.
As for the Aramith polish, I think what you are experiencing has a couple factors to take into consideration. One, obviously a freshly cleaned & polished ball surface will for certain have less resistance to sliding on the cloth. After a short period of time on the playing surface, it will pick up chalk debris increasing that friction rate. No matter how much you clean the cloth, there is still a significant amount of chalk that resides within the cloths fibers.
The second factor is the Aramith cleaner itself. I know it's frowned upon if not against the rules to use any sort of cleaning agent which has any "Wax" or synthetic "Wax" (aka silicone) in its formulation. This wax is frowned upon due to causing to much ball sliding or skid, thus altering the intended playability factor. In addition, anything applied to the balls surface will be short lived and inevitably transfered to the cloth in a short period of time.
With that said, whether it's rumor or stated on the bottle ( to lazy to get up and read the bottle, sorry), I know the Aramith product is supposed to contain no "WAX" in its formulation. However, I don't think it takes scientific analysis to conclude that it certainly has a "Carnuba wax" smell to it. I strongly believe it does indeed have "Wax" in it. That's just my hillbilly opinion and not based on any scientific evidence.
So in closing, I think what you are experiencing is a combination of both of these factors. Both a freshly polished smooth ball surface, and in addition a small amount of wax on the balls surface, both decreasing the balls friction against the cloth, thus allowing for an increase in your balls draw rate. Also, this affect is typically short lived and only lasts for a short period of time as the surface wax is removed and the ball picks up some chalk debris from the cloth.
Of course this is all just my hillbilly opinion and may be as far from the correct truth as possible, so take it with a grain of salt.

Dopc.

 

[CreeDo]

They have a disclaimer on sites that sell the product that says:
Important notice: The Aramith liquids are silicone free

So I don't think it uses any friction reducing stuff.
Maybe you're using too much? Supposed to be just a drop per ball.

Maybe you just have a good stroke and clean equipment reveals it

 

[Bob Jewett]

The surfaces of the balls get scuffed during play. That increases the friction between the ball and the cloth and kills draw. If you polish the balls you remove those scuffs and the balls are more slippery. At some tournaments the balls are polished before every match. The cue ball should be shiny and not have any blue chalk marks/scuffs/miscues on it -- as close as you can get to a new ball. Wax or silicone is a temporary way to make the ball act like new or beyond new and is amusing but shouldn't be used for regular play.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

I use a diamond ball clean and mcguires car wax and I have noticed the same effect. With a strong stroke it looks like the ball peels and for a moment then races ove a table and a half. Note to everyone. Clean your balls daily!

You mean that you have to have a freshly cleaned and polished ball to get draw action like that?

 

[lfigueroa]

I clean the cue ball every ten racks or so. I'm using a measle ball and Centennials, and ten month old 860. I vacuum the cloth weekly and brush the cloth about ever ten racks also.

If I clean the cue ball with either of the Aramith products alone, or in conjunction with each other, I notice a pronounced increase in my ability to draw.

I set an object ball at mid table with the cue ball about two diamonds away, I can consistently and with very little effort draw the cue ball back to the head rail and it frequently rebounds off the head rail.

With both products being branded by Aramith, the world's premier ball manufacturer, I'm finding it hard to believe that their own proprietary ball treatment is juicing my cue ball.

The Aramith Cleaner label even goes so far as to recommend using the cleaner "(Ideally after each game)". I wondering if this final instruction is to sell more product, or by having the user clean so frequently, they then may not notice this juicing effect??? BTW, not doing a hatchet job on these two products. They do an excellent job. I'm merely wondering what produces this radical increase in ball action.

I'd be very interested in your experiences or inputs. Thank you all!!! :thumbup:

Just running them through a polisher, with the residual product in the machine, the balls will move much more easily for the first 30 to 60 minutes. The CB will draw very easily and if you're playing 14.1 the balls will open up like a bag of spilt popcorn.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bob 14:1]

As a mid level player at best, my draw stroke is still my weakest stroke to execute consistently. I had my all time high run of 52 last week, so I won't be joining the tour any time soon. :wink:

Do players with a very high skill level still experience the fall off in draw when playing on, say your local public tables, which aren't maintained to a high level?

The reason I ask, is that many YouTube videos show players demonstrating the draw technique, and if the cloth condition is any indicator of the condition of the balls, then I've got a long upward road to perfecting my draw shot under less than stellar conditions.

I'm just confused by how easily I can draw after cleaning the cue ball, but I want it to be a result of my skill and not from any extraneous factors...

Perhaps a more specific example is needed. If I run a line of balls from side pocket to side pocket, and shoot from behind the head spot, should drawing the cue ball to rebound off of the head rail be almost an automatically make-able shot for the better player regardless of table and or ball conditions???? :shrug:

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Do players with a very high skill level still experience the fall off in draw when playing on, say your local public tables, which aren't maintained to a high level? ...

Yes. The physics is the same for all players. Of course the better players have great, steaming piles of draw available because they can hit the ball quite low, accurately and hard, so they will still be able to draw in situations where beginners will find it impossible.

 

[Ghosst]

Yes. The physics is the same for all players. Of course the better players have great, steaming piles of draw available because they can hit the ball quite low, accurately and hard, so they will still be able to draw in situations where beginners will find it impossible.

Aside from the diagonal corner-to-corner, where does a beginner find it impossible to make a draw shot? I can see the 4-rail draw being hard for 99% of players but that's more of a trick shot than something required in an actual game.

 

[Dopc]

Perhaps a more specific example is needed. If I run a line of balls from side pocket to side pocket, and shoot from behind the head spot, should drawing the cue ball to rebound off of the head rail be almost an automatically make-able shot for the better player regardless of table and or ball conditions???? :shrug:

In my opinion, Absolutely without a doubt. I would think it would take some extremely unrealistic conditions to not allow a cue ball to draw the shot you've described. It's all in the stroke, you don't have to hit it awfully hard either, a good medium stroke "Through" the cue ball should get it done, unless there are some equipment issues out of the ordinary which does not sound like the case. Don't be afraid to use as much low english as you can without miscuing. Experiment with it until you find that sweet spot. Also, try to keep the cue as close to level as possible.
Work on hitting through the cue ball and not punching or jabbing at it. Loosen up your arm muscles and just let your arm flow through the cue ball, as well as a little light flick of the wrist timed just right. Tight muscles and a firm death grip will hinder the stroke and kill the action your looking for in this shot.
Hope I was able to put it into understandable wording. Good luck and keep working at it, You'll get it eventually.
If your having troubles, move a little closer to the object ball until it starts to happen for you, then increase the distance as you gain confidence.

Dopc.

Edit: or did I completely mis-understand the entire point of the question at hand?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Aside from the diagonal corner-to-corner, where does a beginner find it impossible to make a draw shot? ...

It depends on the beginner, of course. Watch some SL-2/3s in league play.

 

[Fatboy]

I use a diamond ball clean and mcguires car wax and I have noticed the same effect. With a strong stroke it looks like the ball peels and for a moment then races ove a table and a half. Note to everyone. Clean your balls daily!

thats how i have my kit set up at home. However i clean the balls after about 10 hours of play. Which recently hasnt been often

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
Perhaps a more specific example is needed. If I run a line of balls from side pocket to side pocket, and shoot from behind the head spot, should drawing the cue ball to rebound off of the head rail be almost an automatically make-able shot for the better player regardless of table and or ball conditions???? :shrug:

Here is a set of drills. "Better players" can do the 5th-level draw drill (Diagram 5-C) out to position 3 on most tables with a 50% success rate.

http://sfbilliards.com/progpract.pdf

Many players have a problem getting to position 5 on 1-C.

 

[Bob 14:1]

In my opinion, Absolutely without a doubt.

Dopc.

Edit: or did I completely mis-understand the entire point of the question at hand?

No, you nailed it! I really appreciate your well thought out and informative responses!

 

[Bob 14:1]

Yes. The physics is the same for all players. Of course the better players have great, steaming piles of draw available because they can hit the ball quite low, accurately and hard, so they will still be able to draw in situations where beginners will find it impossible.

Thank you Mr. Jewett for taking the time to respond. It's a real treat to hear from one of the masters of the game.

From the fundamentals enumerated, I'm well on my way with all of them. Hopefully someday everything will gel for me. BTW, great pdf. I printed it out months ago and use it often to guide me!

 

[CreeDo]

Perhaps a more specific example is needed. If I run a line of balls from side pocket to side pocket, and shoot from behind the head spot, should drawing the cue ball to rebound off of the head rail be almost an automatically make-able shot for the better player regardless of table and or ball conditions?

To just get the draw (nevermind making it) is pretty easy for an experienced player.
Should be able to do that 100% in typical pool hall conditions. No need for any juice.

To do it and never miss... well, you need a decent straight stroke.
Still not difficult, but it can be rattled.

You shouldn't need to strain to draw the ball in the situation you describe.
For me, strain starts at trying to draw from about 2/3rds or 3/4s of the length of the table.
I can do it, but I need to focus on my tip placement and actually try,
whereas from half a table away I can just sort of step up and whack it.

Think your issue is part stroke and maybe your cloth or balls slow down rapidly...
using any hand chalk?

 

[Fatboy]

cylop balls are more reactive than aramith balls, so the physics are different. Same for who ever uses them.

thats a nice diagram Bob, you have done great work!!!

 

[Bob 14:1]

To just get the draw (nevermind making it) is pretty easy for an experienced player.
Should be able to do that 100% in typical pool hall conditions. No need for any juice.

To do it and never miss... well, you need a decent straight stroke.
Still not difficult, but it can be rattled.

You shouldn't need to strain to draw the ball in the situation you describe.
For me, strain starts at trying to draw from about 2/3rds or 3/4s of the length of the table.
I can do it, but I need to focus on my tip placement and actually try,
whereas from half a table away I can just sort of step up and whack it.

Think your issue is part stroke and maybe your cloth or balls slow down rapidly...
using any hand chalk?

Nah, I always wear a glove. I think I'm close having paid close attention to all the tutorials. Someday things will just click for me. Thank you for your great responses.