American legs weak on foreign soil? Or simply not good enough?

I heard the French had a strong team but accidentally surrendered out of habit before arriving at the tournament.
 
SakuJack said:
I think it says a lot that if you were to hold a US vs. UK Mosconi Cup type event, the UK team would be (in my opinion) favourites.

Given the differences in population that's pretty staggering, and that's without considering how few people in the UK play American pool with any kind of regularity.
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Your opinion doesn't "say a lot" if it's your opinion.

If there were a "US vs. UK Mosconi Cup type event," which there already pretty much is, then it would be a coin flip. The problem is the format. UK players can't hang in long races. Darren Appleton admits to it on multiple streamsed events.
 
DAVE_M said:
Your opinion doesn't "say a lot" if it's your opinion.

If there were a "US vs. UK Mosconi Cup type event," which there already pretty much is, then it would be a coin flip. The problem is the format. UK players can't hang in long races. Darren Appleton admits to it on multiple streamsed events.
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lol, a coin flip. We have a couple of hundred serious American pool players in the UK (serious as in owns their own cue and plays somewhat regularly), tops. It says a lot that you see it as a coin flip.

And who cares about long races? Practically every serious tournament is contended over short races these days.
 
SakuJack said:
lol, a coin flip. We have a couple of hundred serious American pool players in the UK (serious as in owns their own cue and plays somewhat regularly), tops. It says a lot that you see it as a coin flip.

And who cares about long races? Practically every serious tournament is contended over short races these days.
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A couple hundred? We have hundreds of thousands. What's your point?
 
DAVE_M said:
A couple hundred? We have hundreds of thousands. What's your point?
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That's my point.

What is pool in America doing wrong if hundreds of thousands of players translates into a national team that is (at best) equal in quality to a country where American pool is about as niche a sport as you can get and has well under 1% of the active players America does?
 
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SakuJack said:
That's my point.

What is pool in America doing wrong if hundreds of thousands of players translates into a national team that is (at best) equal in quality to a country where American pool is about as niche a sport as you can get and has well under 1% of the active players America does?
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So your point is that the UK is better...:rolleyes:
 
BasementDweller said:
I could be wrong here but…

There are two paths to becoming a championship level pool player. The first path is where you are constantly in the fire, gambling and competing each and every day. If you win you eat that day. If you lose - you don't. These types of players are constantly gambling and working on their games because they know if they continue to improve they will have more money in their pocket. When a player follows this path, they are concerned with winning first. From the time they first pick up a cue they are concerned with matching up and winning. Winning is great but it can come with a price.

Anyway, this path works just fine in the Philippines and it worked in the past in the U.S. But something changed in the past 10-20 years here. Top tier players can't find enough action to keep themselves motivated anymore. Of course there's still the occasional big money match, but for the most part, top players aren't matching up much anymore. It's even more difficult for the new players that are trying to take this path to success. Everyone from the guy that picked up a cue yesterday, to the local shortstop, and even up to the top regional guys are all known. Everyone's speed is well documented. Couple that, with the fact that everybody is looking for an edge and what you get is -- the death of the big time money players.

Now, take it a step further -- in a large percentage of the U.S., if you can run out a rack of 8 ball on a bar table you will be considered by many to be a great player. 50 years ago, the bar table was thought of as a complete joke. Now a days it's legit. Now, I'm not saying that the bar table can't be challenging and there certainly are bar table monsters amongst us. All I'm saying is that the standard - when it comes to what is considered to be great pool, has most certainly gone down hill.

Lastly, the end result of the gambling and bar table world that we live in is a bunch of top level players that have all learned to out run their inconsistent fundamentals. Who cares about fundamentals right? After all, all roads lead to Rome don't they? I'm not so sure they do anymore. Yeah, it still works for those guys that have the luxury of lining up action each and every night or simply through absolute raw determination (think SVB) but for the rest of the guys it seems to me that these fundamental errors tend to show up more in these short race tournaments that you find in most of the international events.

Here are just a few of the little things that I’ve noticed some of our top level players having to deal with: One stroking the ball. In other words, getting down on the ball and not following through on their routine, but instead just quickly pulling the trigger only to fire the ball into the rail. I watched several of our players do this during a recent Mosconi Cup. Ouch! There are several top U.S. players that apparently have to pay conscious attention to the position of their wrist while they are playing. Ever watched Stevie Moore play? He probably has the most curled wrist position of any player I’ve ever seen. Even our great Johnny Archer has a weird curled wrist. However, it doesn’t seem to slow him down. How about the creepers? These are the guys that creep up on the shot. Mike Dechaine does this on just about every shot. Even our greatest current player – SVB has a hitch in his stroke from bringing his cue back too fast on his backstroke. How do guys end up like this? I think from gambling early and often. In an attempt to beat the guy in front of you, you try anything and everything. “Let’s see, maybe if I curl my wrist this way and stand that way, the ball will go in and I will leave with the cash”. 20 years later they work out a lot of the kinks but some remnants of poor fundamentals still remain and they seem to show up at the most inopportune times.

So, I mentioned that there are two paths to playing championship level pool. The second path seems to be what the Europeans and many of the Asians (excepting the Filipino’s) are doing and that is focusing on fundamentals first and winning second.

When you follow this path, from the first moments you pick up a cue your goal is not necessarily to beat someone, but instead it’s to become proficient at something or hopefully even get great at it. If you want to become a snooker champion you can’t just walk into a snooker club and ask for a 50 point spot, put some money on the light, and get started. It doesn’t work like that. At least I don’t think it does. Instead you have to put in the time, and figure out how to cue first using proper fundamentals. Practice…practice…practice. Only then do you begin to compete seriously. Now of course, not all European pool players have a significant background in snooker, but it’s my hypothesis that even the pool culture is greatly influenced by this fundamentals first, win second mindset. When I watch the majority of the Europeans play, I just don’t see the small fundamental errors that I pick up on when I watch the U.S. players.

This sort of sums up my take on the matter. The real question becomes what can we do about it? I’m not really sure anything can be done about it overnight. I think there will always be a somewhat active gambling scene inside the U.S. But I’m not so sure it will ever be strong enough to create loads of championship level players like it did in the past. So I think early instruction will be the key, but I just don’t have much hope for that happening any time soon. Pool halls are closing left and right and the only place left to play is going to be in bars. Most kids aren’t going to get any early instruction in these places. All that will remain will be the odd kid here or there that is trained in their parent’s basement. I’ll see what I can do in this department. For all the other kids – they’re screwed.
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What he said.. :thumbup:
 
A young kid growing up in America, who has good hand eye coordination, athletic ability and desire, has too many other sports to keep him busy than spending time with this broken game. That kid can play a variety of sports for free and get his competitive Jones on. Unless something changes, pool is dead in the USA.
 
chevybob20 said:
A young kid growing up in America, who has good hand eye coordination, athletic ability and desire, has too many other sports to keep him busy than spending time with this broken game. That kid can play a variety of sports for free and get his competitive Jones on. Unless something changes, pool is dead in the USA.
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This I will agree with.
 
I am scratching my head in pure despair with such argument...

chevybob20 said:
A young kid growing up in America, who has good hand eye coordination, athletic ability and desire, has too many other sports to keep him busy than spending time with this broken game. That kid can play a variety of sports for free and get his competitive Jones on. Unless something changes, pool is dead in the USA.
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...but of course:
In the UK - they only play Polo and Pool (uhmm... and Snooker)
In the rest of Europe - it is just Football (pardon me - Soccer) and, of course, Pool...
Occasionally, Ski Jumping (but that is silly, is it not???).
Not sure about the rest of the World :)

Summing up - young kids outside America have not too many other sports to keep them busy...
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Poor Kids... :scratchhead: :D
 
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pooler said:
...but of course:
In the UK - they only play Polo and Pool (uhmm... and Snooker)
In the rest of Europe - it is just Football (pardon me - Soccer) and, of course, Pool...
Occasionally, Ski Jumping (but that is silly, is it not???).
Not sure about the rest of the World :)

Summing up - young kids outside America have not too many other sports to keep them busy...
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Poor Kids... :scratchhead: :D
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lol, I thought the same thing when I read that.
 
voiceofreason said:
Are you saying that there are no other sport choices for people in other parts of the world and/or that pool features higher up the list?

This makes no sense..
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Especially when the myriad of active pool players (in comparison to other countries) has already been mentioned in this thread.
 
The Only True Way To Play

All Europe players must Bet their OWN vs SVB...

Did I stutter? A minute ago it was like York Hall up in this motha f#cka now its as quiet as Kevin Trudeau (IPT). :boring2:

No but seriously... Bet Your Own, Longer Race, Change USA line up to:
1 SVB
2 Hatch
3 Corey
4 Earl
5 Nevel

With Bartram as an alternate/coach.

I bet all the high fiving and screaming stops and turns into some blank stares at one another during scotch doubles.
 
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IamCalvin06 said:
All Europe players must Bet their OWN vs SVB...

Did I stutter? A minute ago it was like York Hall up in this motha f#cka now its as quiet as Kevin Trudeau (IPT). :boring2:

No but seriously... Bet Your Own, Longer Race, Change USA line up to:
1 SVB
2 Hatch
3 Corey
4 Earl
5 Nevel

With Bartram as an alternate/coach.

I bet all the high fiving and screaming stops and turns into some blank stares at one another during scotch doubles.
Click to expand...

What is this obsession with "Bet Your Own" amongst American pool fans?
 
This is how we see the the rest of the world over here

voiceofreason said:
I think all Americans have to bet and/or wear hats by law
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world-accordign-to-USA.jpg
 
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