Slow Death of pool

Takumike said:
I'm not an expert about pool, but I have an opinion about this from the perspective of a newcomer to the game. I've caught "the pool bug" this past year and can't seem to get enough of it...online, reading about it (the literature is very slender, which is too bad since I'm a big reader), going to pool rooms, playing it, takings lessons, etc.

I *love* to watch the matches online, but I have one STRONG reaction to the material that's out there that I'd like to register. I don't actually mind the single camera; I realize that having two cameras and a handheld isn't feasible for many events, many venues, or many producers.

But please, please, please, pool people...you've GOT to get better announcers!!!

The voice commentary on the matches I've watched goes from very good (Mark Wilson is my favorite so far, although several I've heard were great), to just so atrociously bad that it borders on the surreal.

Just a few typical sins:
--Talking only about what the shooter might do next. Why not just wait and see, and provide some ANTICIPATION for what we're about to see, instead of just trying to second-guess it constantly?
--Not being quiet when there's nothing to say. It's not necessary to fill every second with jabber.
--Talking about other events, people, news, etc. Yeah, you sprinkle stuff like this in...but SPARINGLY. Going off on it for three racks' worth of play is absurd.
--Not talking to the public, just to other experts. And yet....
--Not knowing the score or even the name of one or the other of the players. This is just so amateurish you wouldn't believe it if SNL did a lampoon of it. But half the time the announcers have no idea what the score is. Or don't bother mentioning it.
--Talking to people on the chat and not even telling the YouTube audience WHAT THE QUESTIONS ARE. Are these productions considered to be only for the real-time chat audience with no thought to people who will watch the match later? I watched a positively Kafkaesque match the other day. Almost Dadaist. The announcer kept answering chat questions without repeating the question, so the effect watching the match on YouTube was a series of long silences followed by bizarre non-sequiturs that had nothing at all to do with the match. It was entertaining, in a parallel world kind of way, but not relevant at all.

And speaking of which, the biggest sin....

--NOT TALKING ABOUT THE MATCH. WTF? It's really, really strange to a newcomer to the sport than an announcer can talk for twenty minutes and not say a single thing about what is happening on the table. Ignoring big shifts in momentum, disastrous misses, anything. You get the feeling one of the players could pull out a gun and shoot the other and the announcer wouldn't say a word about it. Fifteen minutes later the announcer would pause and say, "Nothing much seems to be happening at the table. Somebody must be taking a pretty long break. Why are all those policemen in the audience today?"

I understand that good sports announcing is difficult, and I understand that there are lots and lots of things that could be done to improve the visibility and publicizing of pool, but in my humble opinion this would be a very, very good place to start...cultivate the good announcers, develop some new ones, and try to establish a few standards.

Pool needs a Bud Collins, never mind a Chris Collingsworth.

Mike
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I agree. I cannot stand to watch most of the live streams out there because the announcers just ruin it for me. They seem to feel that the broadcast is a private party for them and their little bands of chat buddies. This seems to be especially true of the FREE streamers. While it may be their right to present their stream any way they want since they are offering it for free; they present nothing at all that will promote the sport beyond their already existent little audience. For instance: they do not properly introduce the contestants to the audience by giving some background on them and telling what they did to lead up to the current event, but instead, assume that everyone listening already knows everything about the players and that they just tuned in to listen to meaningless small talk from the announcers, and to participate in the worthless banter that goes on between them and the chat room.

The PPV streamers are a little more professional than the free streamers (and that's probably because they are getting paid for their broadcast), but not by a whole lot. Most of them still have a long way to go before they will be able to attract anything more than the die-hard pool groupies. The Bonus Ball crew came the closest to getting it right.

Other than Bonus Ball, about the only way I can watch a live stream is to mute the sound, turn off the chat, and just keep an eye on the scoreboard (if they'll even be so kind as to keep THAT current).

Roger
 
Yeah it's really hard to overstate how much being in Gary probably affected this tournament turnout. People who aren't from around here who have never be to or through Gary may not fully grasp this.
 
Crawlers said:
Pool isn't dying or dead. I'm 23 and captain of a team currently in first place. Not a single person is over 30 on my team and I have a full eight players. Since I've done this I've inspired two other young people to form their own separate teams and are eagerly awaiting the beginning of next season.

All you old pool hall guys need to go to the most popular bar in town with tables. Run the table on some of these college kids and light a fire under their ass!
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YEP! :thumbup:
No attraction = no new audience
 
Push&Pool said:
There you go: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4376869#post4376869

There's more, but I don't have the time to search for it at the moment.
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So the tangible things you mentioned are installing pool tables in schools, fast food joints and more bars. Let me ask you this, how do you go about doing that? What fast food place is going to give up seating for a pool table? What school is going to pay maintenance on a pool table? What bar is going to choose a pool table over a coin operated dart board?

These are honest questions. I mean kids at school are going to steal balls and spill soda on a table. Somebody would need to manage the table.

If a bar doesn't already have a pool table there is probably a good reason for it.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
So the tangible things you mentioned are installing pool tables in schools, fast food joints and more bars. Let me ask you this, how do you go about doing that? What fast food place is going to give up seating for a pool table? What school is going to pay maintenance on a pool table? What bar is going to choose a pool table over a coin operated dart board?

These are honest questions. I mean kids at school are going to steal balls and spill soda on a table. Somebody would need to manage the table.

If a bar doesn't already have a pool table there is probably a good reason for it.
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Tell you something funny about fast food places. They don't want you hanging around, eat and get out. I was told this when a friend of mine was managing a Taco Bell. I was there and mentioned how uncomfortable the booths were. They are molded plastic. First thought is they are easier to clean, but that is not why. They have figured out a person can only sit there for about 15 minutes before it becomes to uncomfortable to keep sitting there. They don't want people sitting for an hours discussing the world sipping a soda because they have no where to go right now. 15 minutes and they are gone.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
So the tangible things you mentioned are installing pool tables in schools, fast food joints and more bars. Let me ask you this, how do you go about doing that? What fast food place is going to give up seating for a pool table? What school is going to pay maintenance on a pool table? What bar is going to choose a pool table over a coin operated dart board?

These are honest questions. I mean kids at school are going to steal balls and spill soda on a table. Somebody would need to manage the table.

If a bar doesn't already have a pool table there is probably a good reason for it.
Click to expand...

Well, getting tables in bars, fast foods and restaurants is purely up to the owners. If they have enough room and someone introduces them to the advantages of attracting the crowd by offering cheap pool or even low-fee tournaments for everyone, the same crowd which will spend tons of money on drinks and other stuff once they come, they make consider the fact it could be both interesting and good for the business.

In schools, they already have table tennis and some other games, and the equipment mostly doesn't suffer too much damage. If the government won't fund it, then at least private schools need to be introduced to the concept of teaching kids pool. There's just too many stuff going on in the state schools so making pool their priority right now is quite unlikely.

Still, private pool clubs where instructors are going to teach everyone, from kids to adults, just like people learn volleyball, swimming, karate and chess today, would be a great futuristic concept for pool. I would be even better if those clubs could act somewhat like pool halls when there are no learning groups, so everyone could come and play for hopefully little money (the main profit would come from the learners).

These are all just some of the ideas...
 
Answers

TheNewSharkster said:
So the tangible things you mentioned are installing pool tables in schools, fast food joints and more bars. Let me ask you this, how do you go about doing that? What fast food place is going to give up seating for a pool table? What school is going to pay maintenance on a pool table? What bar is going to choose a pool table over a coin operated dart board?

These are honest questions. I mean kids at school are going to steal balls and spill soda on a table. Somebody would need to manage the table.

If a bar doesn't already have a pool table there is probably a good reason for it.
Click to expand...

I know of a country where someone has managed to put pool tables into more than 200 schools over the period of the last 10 (ten) years. Of course, some of the tables did not survive, some must have been transferred to other locations due to lack of interest. But overall, it produced astonishing effects :rolleyes: :p

I happened to live in this country ;) :thumbup:
Not all kids steal balls or spill soda (or the other way round :D )
Some teachers are actually able to talk some sense into kids - it is called: dedication ;)

Also, I heard of other people in other countries doing so too...

So, is it really impossible ???
 
Push&Pool said:
Well, getting tables in bars, fast foods and restaurants is purely up to the owners. If they have enough room and someone introduces them to the advantages of attracting the crowd by offering cheap pool or even low-fee tournaments for everyone, the same crowd which will spend tons of money on drinks and other stuff once they come, they make consider the fact it could be both interesting and good for the business.

In schools, they already have table tennis and some other games, and the equipment mostly doesn't suffer too much damage. If the government won't fund it, then at least private schools need to be introduced to the concept of teaching kids pool. There's just too many stuff going on in the state schools so making pool their priority right now is quite unlikely.

Still, private pool clubs where instructors are going to teach everyone, from kids to adults, just like people learn volleyball, swimming, karate and chess today, would be a great futuristic concept for pool. I would be even better if those clubs could act somewhat like pool halls when there are no learning groups, so everyone could come and play for hopefully little money (the main profit would come from the learners).

These are all just some of the ideas...
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Private clubs is a terrible idea. The idea is to make pool more accessible, not less. If it were private people would need to complete a application and pay membership fees in order to play. Not good.

How did poker blow up in the last 10-15 years? My opinion is Chris Money Maker was a big part of it. The no-name guy winning the world series of poker. It gave people the idea they could do the same thing. Pool needs something like that. Some sort of story to make it really exciting. Perhaps a new hit movie? Maybe higher ratings for the mosconi cup could lead to more TV coverage. Or maybe we need some no-name to pull off a win at the US open.
 
It's not the game's fault, it's been reduced from "chess" to "tic tac toe"

Mr. Bond said:
Every market is different, so it always does better in some places than in others.
In a depressed economy the the first things to suffer are the service industries, luxuries and entertainment. And its always been that way.

lol Pool is not dying. Public popularity does go up and down but its not dying.
For example, go over to the calendar section on this website. There are scads of events literally every week, all over the country.(and world) And thats only the ones we know about. There are plenty more.


I'll put it this way, do you know how long the game of chess has been around?
According to one source, 3 million chess sets are sold every year.
But how often do you hear about it, or see it on TV? Not much at all.
Just like chess, people will always play pool and billiard games, forever and ever, amen.
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That's because they haven't changed all the chess rules to "one foul, piece anywhere on the board". :groucho:

It's not the game's fault, it's been reduced from "chess" to "tic tac toe"

tic_tac_toe_complete_svg.png
 
pooler said:
I know of a country where someone has managed to put pool tables into more than 200 schools over the period of the last 10 (ten) years. Of course, some of the tables did not survive, some must have been transferred to other locations due to lack of interest. But overall, it produced astonishing effects :rolleyes: :p

I happened to live in this country ;) :thumbup:
Not all kids steal balls or spill soda (or the other way round :D )
Some teachers are actually able to talk some sense into kids - it is called: dedication ;)

Also, I heard of other people in other countries doing so too...

So, is it really impossible ???
Click to expand...


Impossible? No
Unlikely? Yes

At the end of the day kids will be kids and what school is going to spend budget on this?
 
The Ultimate Pocket Billiard Marketing Plan (for those that don't want to play)

TheNewSharkster said:
Impossible? No
Unlikely? Yes

At the end of the day kids will be kids and what school is going to spend budget on this?
Click to expand...

The answer to marketing the game to kids is simple - MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THEM

It's more than reverse psychology, it's what drives all of us "being told what we can't do"....'The Game is the Teacher'

th
 
CJ Wiley said:
The answer to marketing the game to kids is simple - MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THEM

It's more than reverse psychology, it's what drives all of us "being told what we can't do"....'The Game is the Teacher'

th
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It basically already is. I can't speak for all parts of the country but around here we have just a few pool halls. The only other option is playing at a bar and you have to be 21 to get in.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
Yeah it's really hard to overstate how much being in Gary probably affected this tournament turnout. People who aren't from around here who have never be to or through Gary may not fully grasp this.
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The majestic star brings in millions of dollars a month. sombody is going there. ITS A CASINO for christ sake. I see your from Indy, that says alot in its self. Gary is not somewhere id build a house but the place is packed with people from all over the chicago land area. But Im sure you hate chicago too.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Private clubs is a terrible idea. The idea is to make pool more accessible, not less. If it were private people would need to complete a application and pay membership fees in order to play. Not good.

How did poker blow up in the last 10-15 years? My opinion is Chris Money Maker was a big part of it. The no-name guy winning the world series of poker. It gave people the idea they could do the same thing. Pool needs something like that. Some sort of story to make it really exciting. Perhaps a new hit movie? Maybe higher ratings for the mosconi cup could lead to more TV coverage. Or maybe we need some no-name to pull off a win at the US open.
Click to expand...

No, you got the idea wrong. It would basically be poolhalls like we have today, at least same price per hour, preferably lower. But you could pay monthly fee to actually train pool together with other people (maybe in different groups like children, adolescents, adults) with the help of instructors. The fee shouldn't be any higher than what we pay today for stuff like martial arts and basketball. You'd have a training two or three times a week (maybe more often if you paid a little more, like in most gyms). Those who want could also play in teams representing their clubs and competing against other clubs. With time some successful clubs could become famous and respected, get a lot of supporters, as well as TV/internet coverage and sponsors. New players would arise from their clubs, like they do in soccer, volleyball and basketball today. Imagine all the positive competition between the clubs, fight for prestige and first place in a national/international league or something like that.
 
I spent hours playing on with my imaginary friends. ;)

TheNewSharkster said:
It basically already is. I can't speak for all parts of the country but around here we have just a few pool halls. The only other option is playing at a bar and you have to be 21 to get in.
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I know and I'm sorry to hear that my friend.....luckily, in my town we were allowed to go in the pool hall at 7 years old and that's when I started.

There were several places I wanted to go that I wasn't allowed though...and it got me in some "hot water" ...... I also had a miniature table at my house that I spent hours playing on with my imaginary friends. ;)
 
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