Vaccum Stabilizer

vacuum stabilizing

i seen that a while back,good luck with that.i've been doing some stabilizing for awhile now,and there is a bit more to it than that.
 
Thanks for the input. I dont know a lot about it only that vacuum preasure pull the resins in or something like that.
 
treed said:
i seen that a while back,good luck with that.i've been doing some stabilizing for awhile now,and there is a bit more to it than that.
Click to expand...

Yep lot more than that. Like 4000 PSI .... Of PRESSURE. I'm sure the PVC will hold that. Then there is the stabilizing solution.......
 
Vacuum pulls the air out. After vacuum is released solution soaks into wood. I've been wanting to make one of those as well. I'm thinking 2" steel pipe with a pressure testing valve should work fine. I don't see why 4000 psi would be necessary. Ambient pressure is 14.7 psi. Bring it down far enough and the air should look for a new home.
 
shankster8 said:
How does 4000 psi of pressure enter into stabilizing wood? Thanks
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Stabilizing can be a combo of vacuum first, then release it and then introduce pressure to 'assist' in the fluid being pushed into the wood. Then while under pressure, the curing is done. This holds the fluid in the wood and prevents it from draining out before it can be cured. It is amazing how much more fluid can be pushed into a piece of wood by this method. The expensive part is to have a pressure tank that can handle the pressure AND heat up to the correct temp for the curing.
Dave
 
Stabilizing wood

Iv'e been doing stabilizing for several years now and have made most of the mistakes (I hope). This is kind of what I have learned:
You need a good vacuum pump. DO NOT buy one from Harbor Freight. They are cheap and I mean cheap. Buy a GAST.
Make your tanks from 1/4" acrylic tubing 5 or 6" in diameter. The lengths are optional. I have 16" 18" and 20" tanks. Cut a top and bottom out of 1" thick acrylic. Cut a ledge on the top and bottom pieces so they fit snugly part way into the tank. Cut an O-ring groove for the top and tap 1/4-20 NPT for a fitting.
CA glue the bottom into the tank.
Make up a 6 ft hose to attach the pump to the tank. Somewhere on the line place a valve so you can open the line to atmospheric pressure. I use quick release fittings on both ends of the hose.
Make a piece of chicken wire for the bottom of the tank to keep the wood off the bottom. Make a piece for the top to keep the wood from floating to the top. Make a basket for small pieces.
I use Cactus Juice. Place wood in cylinder and hold in place with the wire.
Add juice to cover the wood plus 2". Open your atmospheric (air) valve and
start your pump. Slowly close the valve to reduce foaming. Vacuum should reach 30". Keep it at 30" until all bubbles disappear then hold vacuum another 15 minutes. Open the valve and notice the drop in level of the resin.
Spalts will take more resin that say bamboo. Let sit in the resin 15 minutes then remove and let air dry overnight. Oh, I always put a cup hook in one end of the wood for easy removal from the tank and hanging. There is no need for air pressure to be introduced into the tank for further resin penetration. 14 psi of atmosphere is enough for 1 1/2" pieces. The resin will
displace the vacuum and the atmospheric pressure will reinforce it.
Wrap in aluminum foil and bake at 200 degrees for 90 minutes. DO NOT use
your house oven as it makes a stink of toxic vapors. I bought an induction
oven from WallMart on line that holds an 18" piece for $100.
Remember, you are stabilizing CUE wood not knife handles. Your goal is to beautify and make a unusable piece of wood usable--not to create a block of plastic that looks somewhat like wood.
As a side note: Years ago I worked as a diesel mechanic for Cummins in LA.
They also had a branch in Las Vegas. On the shop wall in LAS VEGAS was a sign that said "WE DON'T CARE HOW THEY DO IT IN LA". With that said good luck with your project.
 
Sounds like you guys have it all figured out.........LOL :thumbup:

Cue wood is thicker and longer than "knife wood" whatever that is.....therefore more mass and harder to stabilize. Please tell me what knife wood is again ???

No pressure = not enough penetration. All you have to do is look at the weight.

BIG difference between pro and homebrew.... sorry those are the facts.

Maybe we should pull up some pictures of some dyed pieces that have been posted here on the board that were done in pvc cylinders ???? You know where the dye didn't go all the way thru the pieces ???????
 
shankster8 said:
I see no mention of 4,000 psi pressure on that website. Why?
Click to expand...

Here's my take on it; I do not need 100% evacuation of air in wood used for my cues. I still want wood to be wood. I want it stabilized enough for me to machine but not so much that it is something that looks like wood but is more of a filler.



Again, this is just me... You can do what you want. I'm not here to judge.;)
 
shankster8 said:
That looks like a neat design, and reasonably priced. I see no mention of 4,000 psi pressure on that website. Why?
Click to expand...

Because none of those chambers can handle it. Bottom line is the wood is either stabilized (meaning the stabilizing fluid had gone all the way thru the wood) or it's not. Penetration of an eighth of inch is NOT stabilized. If it doesn't go all the way thru then why bother?

This has been tested over and over again.
 
meridianblades said:
Because none of those chambers can handle it. Bottom line is the wood is either stabilized (meaning the stabilizing fluid had gone all the way thru the wood) or it's not. Penetration of an eighth of inch is NOT stabilized. If it doesn't go all the way thru then why bother?

This has been tested over and over again.
Click to expand...

I don't want to start a pissing contest and quite frankly I could care less what
any others think or does. With that said, I have stabilized plenty of wood and have gone thru about 24 gallons of resin. Some of the wood I have stabilized
was the size of a 2X4 and hard curly maple. It has been cut open and despite
what some say it was stabilized clear thru. The whole idea is to replace the air
that was in the wood with resin.
 
ratcues said:
If you are going to get into stabilizing your own wood, buy one of these chambers as opposed to wasting your time and money trying to build your own. I had a little influence on the design and it is what I currently use.

http://www.turntex.com/index.php?pa...egory_id=144&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=121
Click to expand...

When I built my chambers these were not on the market. Had they been I
would of bought theirs for sure. You can hardly make one for what they charge.
I like the idea of being able to screw it down to a board. I have three chambers in a 5-gallon bucket to keep them from tipping over.
 
QMAKER said:
It has been cut open and despite what some say it was stabilized clear thru.
Click to expand...

I have the same experience. I run an .850" gun drill through some pieces. If I wasn't able to get a uniform evacuation, the wood would not be machinable.

Larry, don't confuse uniform with complete. I know what you are saying and I totally understand but, as I've stated before, cue makers do not need 100% evacuation and I think the cue plays better that way.
 
ratcues said:
I have the same experience. I run an .850" gun drill through some pieces. If I wasn't able to get a uniform evacuation, the wood would not be machinable.

Larry, don't confuse uniform with complete. I know what you are saying and I totally understand but, as I've stated before, cue makers do not need 100% evacuation and I think the cue plays better that way.
Click to expand...

Ryan and Bob,
The pictures that have been posted here DO NOT show pieces that have been "stabilized clear thru".... sorry they don't. They are splotchy, the dye barely makes it thru the surface of the wood, and that was spalted maple, one of the softest woods we deal with. That means the dye / stabilant was NOT deposited into the cells of the wood......because...(wait for it).... there was not enough pressure to do so. If the stabilant doesn't penetrate all the way thru then it is not stabilized.

As far as the technical process, I suggest you contact either Ken Mcfall or Mike Ludemann and have talk with them about the whole process. They are professionals, and do this for a living. There is a whole lot more to it than "evacuating air" from a piece of wood. In the end, the wood is either stabilized or is it isn't. I don't care if we are talking about guitars, cues, knives, pens or whatever the wood will be crafted into at a later time, the wood is either stabilized or it is not.
 
meridianblades said:
The pictures that have been posted here DO NOT show pieces that have been "stabilized clear thru".... sorry they don't. They are splotchy, the dye barely makes it thru the surface of the wood,
Click to expand...

What pictures? You cannot make a blanket statement for everyone that does their own wood by a couple of pics someone posted. Bob and I are talking from experience and I can tell you that there are many, many other cue makers doing their own wood as well. I know I am getting to the middle of my blank because I can test it. I can machine it. If it were only at the surface, I would not be able to work with it, period.
 
i ran into problems like this

when i first started azb, its the old " if you don't do it my way its wrong " and thats bullshit. i am really no expert into stablizing ebony thats 6 inbches thick, because i have never done it and will never try.

BUT

i bought a vaccum pump on ebay for almost nothing, built a home made tank i used the same system i used when casting gold jewelry in my store, same principle. i used acryloid b72 and stabalized a few shafts. it worked perfect and the wood was sealed all the way into the center.

i once had a guy tell me that i could not build pool cues with a wood pin in the butt.


PLEASE don't try to tell me i cannot do something that i can do. thats all from me about this subject !!!!!!!!!!
 
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