None of that "comes naturally" to top players. It's learned spending hundreds,if not thousands of hours at the table.
Now the John vs. Lou poll removed
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None of that "comes naturally" to top players. It's learned spending hundreds,if not thousands of hours at the table.
I don't know if you can take 10 players with average ability and make them world class players. Guess it depends on what average is. Not only do they have to put the same practice time in just for making shots. They have to put in so much more for cue ball control. How to understand layouts, jumping, kicking, breaking and playing stiff safes. All which comes naturally to top players. I don't know about aiming systems but I do think they can help. Same with kicking and banking systems. However they are all systems that are just natural to top players. These 10 players would have to master everything that comes natural to others.<--No problem, its only 'One Pocket'...CJ will 'fast track' them, in just a few weeks !
None of that "comes naturally" to top players. It's learned spending hundreds, if not thousands of hours at the table.<--(probably more like tens of thousands)
Good Eye, jburke and leto ! :thumbup:..Always satisfying to see common sense, well articulated..Right Jay ?
PS..Plenty of time for our hero though..If he spends 10 hrs/day, for the next few months..He'll have OVER 600 HRS. in
(but, "scientific studies" have shown, that he is a fast learner
)
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There is one thing missing from this equation, that may be the single most important factor in the making of a champion. I call it HEART! Try to quantify that. I defy anyone to tell me how to teach a player to have a strong heart, if he doesn't already have one. "Deliberate Practice" or anything else can't make a man grow balls!
To add to this, in my 40+ years of experience ALL the champions I've seen have been able to play under pressure. This point was touched on here in an earlier post but I can't stress it enough. Probably the winner of this match will be decided by who has the most heart. That's my opinion anyway.
I agree. I also equate heart with desire.
I also know I have more heart than my opponent.
Top players also use systems. What you think comes natural does not come natural. A pro told me today that every professional was an average player once.
I think you're talking to the wall.
edit: I meant to quote smimp13, not Jay.
Not going to happen in just one year. However, that does not mean that given a few more years that it could not happen. Just working on the mental aspect, which is actually what holds many back, could easily take more than a year, but it could be done with enough time.
Brings to mind Michael Euphemia....possibly the best practice player ever. Yet, he never truly learned the mental aspect of competition and almost always faltered in competition. Who knows how great he could have been with proper mental training??
One thing is for sure: JB doesn't have the heart that he thinks he does.
About two years ago, JB and I were discussing playing a double match in One Pocket and in chess. Given that he thought I would be the favorite in the chess match, he wanted me to spot him a Queen and a Rook too. If you play any chess at all, you know that those are overwhelming odds to overcome. In chess, as in most other sports of skill, the stronger opponent is going to win because they have more talent, knowledge, skills, et cetera. After all, they worked hard to get to where they are at today.
A good player like Lou will rise to the occasion by performing up to expectations on the pool table. A weaker player like JB, will fall apart under pressure due to their lack of heart, skill and talent. Instead, players like JB will try to make up for their deficiencies by trying to bluster and intimidate their opponents on the chat forums.
oh o, now u went n deed it
The fact that you are willing to bet what ever and not get called, lets me know you are not the underdog in this match anymore. I have never seen you or Lou play, if there is any video of both of you playing in a pressure game, I would like to see it and then I would make a bet.
Yet, he backed it up wanting to bet 20,000 more! That is doing a little more than just woofing.
i'd comment, but it'd turn this into a conversation about poker
What? If I asked you for a spot in chess it wasn't because I don't have heart. But I don't recall the conversation. How about providing a link so we can all see the conversation and the context?
We will see what happens in the pool match. You might be right. On the other hand I might outrun the nuts, not that a person like you even understands that term. I am certain you never gave up the nuts in your life nor outran them. So you talking about heart is about as silly as Dick talking about civility.
Hey Neil, when I mentioned the full year it definitely might not be enough. I was throwing out a length of time rounded. Some people take a lot longer to develop the mental toughness required to play at a high level. Others obtain that easier. For me when I was 17-18 a buddy and mine used to do a race to 3 for $5 and then play multiple sets. It was fairly cheap and made us focus a bit because even though the money wasn't huge, there was money on the line. That and $5 tournaments where I actually focused and didn't just socialize were great for me game. On the other hand others who might do a test like this, will not fully understand the difference between practice, training, and playing. It could take year(s) to become a master at this which lets be honest....if you have proper fundamentals that is all great, but if you have no mental game you are toast in the pool world at the higher levels.
T-minus about 5 months and I hope to be out in Vegas for a couple of WSOP events...booyah!
Actually I have not been playing all my life. If one totals the amount of time put in practicing and playing then it is not very much for 30 years. And more of that time was spent playing than practicing.
What I achieved with all that sporadic bad practice and occasional playing was a decent level. Imagine if I had been serious, really really serious about it.
Yesterday I had a choice. Four hours of intense instruction with a top notcher where I can spend money or gamble with people around my level where I could earn money. Pro instruction no brainer right?
Not for most of my life. Earlier in life I would have rather been in action myself than to take instruction or study a good match.
So this "you have been playing all your life and are still an average player" is nonsense and exactly makes the point I have been making all along.
The fact is I had not ever really put in the time. To some degree sure so I could get to the level I got to but even that was not good deep practice.
So really another way to look at it is out of 30 years I might have a total of 3-4 years of solid play in. And those are three banger years not three years of being mentored by a top player.
Think about it and what difference it makes.
What I achieved with all that sporadic bad practice and occasional playing was a decent level. Imagine if I had been serious, really really serious about it.
Yesterday I had a choice. Four hours of intense instruction with a top notcher where I can spend money or gamble with people around my level where I could earn money. Pro instruction no brainer right?
Not for most of my life. Earlier in life I would have rather been in action myself than to take instruction or study a good match.
So this "you have been playing all your life and are still an average player" is nonsense and exactly makes the point I have been making all along.
The fact is I had not ever really put in the time. To some degree sure so I could get to the level I got to but even that was not good deep practice.
So really another way to look at it is out of 30 years I might have a total of 3-4 years of solid play in. And those are three banger years not three years of being mentored by a top player.
Think about it and what difference it makes.
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John, you may have missed my late 'PS' in post #231..
PS..Plenty of time for our hero though..If he spends 10 hrs/day, for the next few months..He'll have OVER 600 HRS. in
And don't forget.."SCIENTIFIC STUDIES" have shown, that he is a fast learner
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John, you may have missed my late 'PS'..
I did not miss it. But it is a fact that every hour of solid deep practice pays off with a much higher degree of skill.
If you spend your time trying to learn something instead of clinging to the 50s you might understand that.
But I think you do understand it. I would bet that if you were not arguing with me and I came to you for lessons you would be able to improve my game significantly.
In fact you have said if you were coaching me you would bet on me. You and every other old timer knows the value of coaching because all of you had signals worked out to be able to coach weaker players in partners games.
So it seems to me that most of your arguing is simply being obnoxious for sport. I am certain that you have no doubt in your heart that a champion like yourself could turn a motivated decent player into a world class player if the student were truly dedicated
Sure I could,...in about 20 years, maybe ! (Not every one works as fast as CJ) :sorry:
Well you were never as good as CJ is so it takes you longer.
My mistake, I thought we were talking about One Pocket...Not '2 shot foul' nine ball !
(I would love to have had CJ, to thump on back in the day, he played one pocket under Earl !)
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Be careful guys, you're walking on thin ice right now.
