CTE/Pro One Practice Table Set Up 2

[(((Satori)))]

Interesting. Do you mean you use 2 different eyes for 2 lines or you just wanted to demonstrate that the picture changes when you move the eyes?

Why I am asking. I am trying to use the same strongest vision (vision center) from position up and when down and I am able to “see” 2 lines at the same time coming from my focal point and going through certain points ONLY for certain ball distances, which can be explained geometrically.

So instead I try to recognize the shape which connects CB edge, OB A, OB edge, CB Center and how I perceive it is not a symmetrical figure. In other words I do not try to be behind both lines at the same time or lines going out of my vision center.

At the same time these are not different shapes I can recognize them for different shots.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=307645


In post number 4 Stan says "Sometimes you right eye picks up one line and your left eye will perceive the other line."

He also says "When perceiving your visuals, you are not directly behind either line."

 

[rubell]

The diagram is simply a crude example to illustrate a simple point about perspective.

...


Like Nobcity and Mohrt and others I have marked up the table to insure as much objectivity as possible while learning the physical and visual approach required.

Understood. Thanks.

I like marking the table too, adds more consistency in training.

 

[rubell]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=307645


In post number 4 Stan says "Sometimes you right eye picks up one line and your left eye will perceive the other line."

He also says "When perceiving your visuals, you are not directly behind either line."

Yes, I read it some times ago. I tried to aim like that and went to some inconsistencies. I have my right eye dominat but at near sight my left eye sees better and frequently takes a function of the dominant eye. When I used 2 different eyes rather than one (or strongest visual center), it was hard for me to understand which eye is dominant at that moment and the shot ofter was drastically off, specially for long shots where I could miss the object ball at all. Therefore I ended up using the same visual center for both, aiming and shooting positions. It allows me to be more aware with what eye I aim and not trigger switching eye dominance with different distances.

I also saw your question about cross dominance. What works for me is aligning more to the side. Let me explain. Let's say you bend 12 o'clock to shoot. Then your body interferes with the cue. Let's say you are right handed. Then if you bend approximately 11 o'clock, the body will not interfere with the cue anymore and it will be aligned to the right eye. Then let's say you bend 10 o'clock, the cue will be aligned with the opposite eye. The numbers 11 and 10 are just figuratively speaking to understand the concept. In reality it is what it is according to the shooter's vision. For me it is a completely different hip-body movement than with the same-eye-hand-side case (I can shoot with both hands but play better with the cross-dominant one).

I saw some forum participants misunderstood your questions in the thread but I understand these questions very well. Sometimes it was very frustrating. I had to deal with these kind of problems for a long time until I figured out what worked for me the best and I tried probably all combinations before.

The short answer is one can shoot with one eye only and still use the system. The rest of questions will disappear. I think these questions are universal and not system specific.

By the way, while I am a relatively new to CTE, few days ago I tried to win the ghost in 8 ball using CTE Pro One only (no "cheating" with other systems) and I won. I pocketed all 8 balls with 6 regular shots, one one-rail and one three-rails shot. Well, my CB control is not where I want yet, so technically I could avoid these bank shots but using CTE Pro One allowed me to compensate my mistakes with bank and across table shots.

 

[rubell]

The diagram is simply a crude example to illustrate a simple point about perspective. When you physically move the photoreceptors and the lenses, your eyes, then the perception changes. It has to. While you can certainly imagine two lines flowing to parts of two objects from many body positions there is only one spot where you are also physically in line with those lines perceptually and precisely. One spot where those lines are essentially emanating from your eyes to connect you with the two objects.

I do not know the exact mechanics here as relates to vision center and dominant eyes I only know what I have observed in my own use of this method so far. Like Nobcity and Mohrt and others I have marked up the table to insure as much objectivity as possible while learning the physical and visual approach required.

For me using one line, the Cte line was huge in cutting down perception errors and using two lines really dials me in.

John, you did a very good job with explanation how your aim using CTE Pro One, very clear! I like it.

 

[UpMySleeves]

I really enjoy the feedback and explainations given on this technique. I don't have a pool table at home, and can only practice for 1-2 hours per week. I am getting OK results but still there is a bit of confusion.

I used a pool game app on my phone to try and align a cut to the left corner pocket. First of all, I don't know if I should aim to A, B or C. I chose B given that it looks like a medium thick cut. I drew a CTE line and ETB line for each shot, and would like to know from you guys, which "perception" looks like the best to make the shot? As mentionned before, the trouble for me is that I can see both lines from many different angles, so it's hard to find an exact position.

I understand after finding that exact Perception, there is a Pro one sweep (or pivot). That is why the blue line going to the cue ball isn't the shot line, but the line to a fixed CB from which I will judge my sweep or pivot.

I hope I am not too confusing. I know I will get some "Buy the DVD replies" and honestly I will once I have enough money. For now, your help and the online youtube Vids are my only resource.

Thanks!

P.S It's a big image, so you can get close up to the shot

 

[Gerry Williams]

Looks more like A with a left sweep as you have diagrammed it. Good luck with the system.

Gerry

I really enjoy the feedback and explainations given on this technique. I don't have a pool table at home, and can only practice for 1-2 hours per week. I am getting OK results but still there is a bit of confusion.

I used a pool game app on my phone to try and align a cut to the left corner pocket. First of all, I don't know if I should aim to A, B or C. I chose B given that it looks like a medium thick cut. I drew a CTE line and ETB line for each shot, and would like to know from you guys, which "perception" looks like the best to make the shot? As mentionned before, the trouble for me is that I can see both lines from many different angles, so it's hard to find an exact position.

I understand after finding that exact Perception, there is a Pro one sweep (or pivot). That is why the blue line going to the cue ball isn't the shot line, but the line to a fixed CB from which I will judge my sweep or pivot.

I hope I am not too confusing. I know I will get some "Buy the DVD replies" and honestly I will once I have enough money. For now, your help and the online youtube Vids are my only resource.

Thanks!

P.S It's a big image, so you can get close up to the shot

 

[nobcitypool]

The diagrams make it hard to tell. From my perception, working from top left to bottom right, it appears that the OB is progressively moving slightly to the right making the cut a little thinner with each shot.

I think the top left is A with a right sweep to thicken the shot slightly. The bottom right looks like A with a left sweep to thin it out slightly. I can't tell from the diagrams where the transition from right to left sweep occurs. I'm guessing more of the shots are left sweeps than right sweeps. BTW, the shots that are left sweeps could also be made with ETB and a right sweep to thicken it slightly.

 

[UpMySleeves]

Sorry about the quality of the diagram, it seems the forum downscaled it so it makes it hard to view the detailed edges of CB and OB. However, when you say that it appears the OB moves, it doesn't. I just changed the view around the CB, just as if I were shifting my eyes from left to right while standing behind the shot, trying to find my "perception". These are all from the same shot, and thus, should all use the same visuals. My (and other CTE beginers') big problem is to know exactly where to stand.

It seems the 5th and 6th image both have a good chance of making the ball using a left sweep (Left sweep is from left to right, or right to left?) I know I used ETB here and probably should've used ETA. Man I can't wait to get the DVD so this is all cleared out!

 

[rubell]

Sorry about the quality of the diagram, it seems the forum downscaled it so it makes it hard to view the detailed edges of CB and OB. However, when you say that it appears the OB moves, it doesn't. I just changed the view around the CB, just as if I were shifting my eyes from left to right while standing behind the shot, trying to find my "perception". These are all from the same shot, and thus, should all use the same visuals. My (and other CTE beginers') big problem is to know exactly where to stand.

It is understandable. The perspective on the picture is different from how human eyes see. The diagrams are close enough to start working at table though. I think the only way is to actually try it and calibrate the way so you do not feel pivot/sweep adjustments.

Here is what I mean. Let's say you draw a perfect picture of balls 1 diamond apart, the CB close to you. Well, is it the same picture when the balls are still 1 diamond apart but the CB is 6 diamonds from where you are and you have to use a mechanical bridge? No. It is different. You will not be able to adjust visuals exactly the same way. However, in both positions you will be able to recognize the visuals like they are the same (confusing?).

What I mean you do not have to memorize all possible millions ball positions on the table, with practice you will be able to recognize it even if you did not shoot it before. Btw, I found that imagining a line to the the CB ball core works better for me when I align than if I do it like on the picture.

Another tip for calibration is, let's say you captured a visual, then if it still does not work for both sweeps, it means the visual is off.

Man I can't wait to get the DVD so this is all cleared out!

The DVD2 is a huge boost in learning the system and goes beyond the questions you ask. It covers many questions you will ask once this question will be clear for you.

Talking from my learning experience. ... After few weeks of CTE Pro One training I won 8 ball ghost few times and this was on a 7 feet table with crowded balls! What I liked about the system when I recently went to a 9 feet one pocket table with small pockets, whatever I practiced on the 7 feet table worked well there as well.

Good luck!

 

[UpMySleeves]

Awsome! Thanks very much for your explaination. I understand what you mean now, and yes for me, it's very encouraging that shots will be the same regardless of the table being 7ft or 9ft. I am in the market to buy a table to practice but I want an exact 2x1 table in order for CTE to work. I saw some good deals with 7x4 tables but passed lol

I'll let you guys know my progression (in a different thread) when I get better

 

[nobcitypool]

Understood now that you explained it. Stan has some videos up covering this fairly well, I apologize, I don't have the specific link. Look back on some of the threads, I'm sure you can locate it.

I think the simplest thing is to get yourself aligned as if you were going to move down into the shot hitting it dead straight. In this case, slowly move a bit left as if you're "circling" the CB until you see ETA. You could also do the same until you see CTE. Now, move slightly until you have the perception of both (ETA, CTE). Now you have it. Move into the shot with the appropriate sweep for the cut you need. If you're practicing it and can't tell, try one. If you miss by 1/4 diamond or more, you likely made the wrong sweep.

I will confess to not being able to tell very well from most of the diagrams I see on here. That one looks like it is close to the transition point. What I've found that works best for me when in doubt is that I find the correct perception, then move my head right or left a little as if I were moving into the ball. In most cases, after moving my head, I can tell if that sweep would put me on the correct aim line to pocket the ball. Now I move back to make sure I have the correct visual, then just make the correct sweep into the ball.

This is the part of CTE/Pro One that takes a lot of table time. It is very easy to make a mistake as the distance between CB and OB can change the perceptions/sweeps that are needed. There is no "definitive" explanation that covers it precisely, it takes practice time to work it out on your own. More and more shots will become automatic as your time spent at the table practicing increases.

Another tip is to take a striped ball (not perfect unless it is the old Centennial ball I think) and place it with the stripes vertical facing the CB. This will assist you in learning your ETA and ETC visuals.

 

[JB Cases]

Awsome! Thanks very much for your explaination. I understand what you mean now, and yes for me, it's very encouraging that shots will be the same regardless of the table being 7ft or 9ft. I am in the market to buy a table to practice but I want an exact 2x1 table in order for CTE to work. I saw some good deals with 7x4 tables but passed lol

I'll let you guys know my progression (in a different thread) when I get better

Where do you find a 4*7 foot pool table? Almost all tables are twice as long as they are wide.

 

[mohrt]

Where do you find a 4*7 foot pool table? Almost all tables are twice as long as they are wide.

I think CTE will work swimmingly with any table made up of perfect squares with pockets at the corners. Any configuration of 1x1, 2x1, "L" shape, etc. would exhibit the exact same mathematical lines to connect to pockets. The rails would just bounce you to opposite pockets, just as they do now. Not every pocket would have a CTE solution (same as it is now), but many would. BTW this is my own hypothesis, but it makes sense and I think it would hold true.

 

[UpMySleeves]

Where do you find a 4*7 foot pool table? Almost all tables are twice as long as they are wide.

I looked on kijiji for used tables and some would say 4x7. I'm not sure however if these are outside dimensions.

I think CTE will work swimmingly with any table made up of perfect squares with pockets at the corners. Any configuration of 1x1, 2x1, "L" shape, etc. would exhibit the exact same mathematical lines to connect to pockets. The rails would just bounce you to opposite pockets, just as they do now. Note every pocket would have a CTE solution (same as it is now), but many would. BTW this is my own hypothesis, but it makes sense and I think it would hold true.

That's what I think as well. Would be interesting to test because I had in mind that Stan specified a 2x1 ratio table. I think you are right that for shots that aren't banks, it should work...

 

[mohrt]

I looked on kijiji for used tables and some would say 4x7. I'm not sure however if these are outside dimensions.



That's what I think as well. Would be interesting to test because I had in mind that Stan specified a 2x1 ratio table. I think you are right that for shots that aren't banks, it should work...

banks work too. a bank just takes you to the "mirror" of the pocket you were headed to. same a 2x1.

 

[stan shuffett]

I looked on kijiji for used tables and some would say 4x7. I'm not sure however if these are outside dimensions.



That's what I think as well. Would be interesting to test because I had in mind that Stan specified a 2x1 ratio table. I think you are right that for shots that aren't banks, it should work...

Regulation tables are 2x1......essentially 2 squares consisting of 8 ninety degree angles.
Change the table dimensions and CTE can weaken to the point of being unusable.
Change the perceptions of real CTE but not the table and CTE does not work.
It is all about 2x1 tables.

If you took a 1 x 1 table and gave it 6 pockets which is what pool and snooker call for,you'd be up the creek with an incomplete system.

Stan Shuffett

 

[mohrt]

If you took a 1 x 1 table and gave it 6 pockets which is what pool and snooker call for,you'd be up the creek with an incomplete system.

Agreed, and a 1x1 table with six pockets would not be comprised of perfect squares with pockets at the corners.

 

[8pack]

This system has come a long ways.. I'm sure some where down the road you guy's will figure out the 1x1 ... 3x1 ....10 x4 thing out.A halfball hit at 2 feet away is a halfball hit no matter how you look at .:wink:

 

[JB Cases]

This system has come a long ways.. I'm sure some where down the road you guy's will figure out the 1x1 ... 3x1 ....10 x4 thing out.A halfball hit at 2 feet away is a halfball hit no matter how you look at .:wink:

That's right. But like the diamond system - it doesn't work out if the dimensions change. Sure a half-ball hit is a half ball hit. But if you move the pocket then a half-ball hit doesn't go to the pocket. If you are on a half ball hit that does go to a pocket though and you rotate the table 45 degrees then most likely the same half ball hit then takes the ball to another pocket. That's the essence of this as I see it.

We aren't talking about half-ball hits here. We are talking about visual perceptions leading to shot lines. The ACTUAL hit is determined by the line you get down on. This system works perfectly on the 2:1 rectangle and in any right angle. I showed a guy CTE on the fold up table at my booth for about 45 minutes using a Pepsi can, a cup and a water bottle. I hit the Ghost Ball line dead center EVERY TIME no matter what shot he set up.

 

[8pack]

That's right. But like the diamond system - it doesn't work out if the dimensions change. Sure a half-ball hit is a half ball hit. But if you move the pocket then a half-ball hit doesn't go to the pocket. If you are on a half ball hit that does go to a pocket though and you rotate the table 45 degrees then most likely the same half ball hit then takes the ball to another pocket. That's the essence of this as I see it.

We aren't talking about half-ball hits here. We are talking about visual perceptions leading to shot lines. The ACTUAL hit is determined by the line you get down on. This system works perfectly on the 2:1 rectangle and in any right angle. I showed a guy CTE on the fold up table at my booth for about 45 minutes using a Pepsi can, a cup and a water bottle. I hit the Ghost Ball line dead center EVERY TIME no matter what shot he set up.

We can only create the rite perception if we have rite dimensions.Sounds pretty silly.....you can line up on any 2 objects sitting on any type of surface . Whats in the back ground only gives you the rite perception..(a horse ..dog ...popcan....pocket)Shouldnt matter you should be able to hit it.