GC3 table leveling

[book collector]

I read the RKC instructions and followed them correctly, "I believe".
I used a 4 foot level on the foot end of the bed frame (the highest end when just sitting on the legs } and put the Starrett level on top of it in the center .
The 4 foot level sits flat all the way across the framing but I can't get the Starrett level to be level on the ends of the end rail at the same time, when I move it to the right or left of the center of the end frame?.
Am I just supposed to get it level in the center ? and split the difference on the outsides?
The table is in my basement and it slopes from the outer walls to a drain near one end of the room.

 

[book collector]

I have the center of the table reading level at both ends.
Both ends of the end pieces of the table bow down at the outside edges .
So , I am high in the middle on both ends but level {in the center only). and I have the outside corners about equally off level.
I noticed that the side framing boards are a little higher than the end pieces in a couple of places , maybe as much as the thickness of a playing card.
It looks like I would have to sand the length of the inside of the sideboards to get them even.
I would sure apprecaite any help , I am not sure how much tolerance is ok , and can be fixed when I level the slates.

 

[bradsh98]

I have the center of the table reading level at both ends.
Both ends of the end pieces of the table bow down at the outside edges .
So , I am high in the middle on both ends but level {in the center only). and I have the outside corners about equally off level.
I noticed that the side framing boards are a little higher than the end pieces in a couple of places , maybe as much as the thickness of a playing card.
It looks like I would have to sand the length of the inside of the sideboards to get them even.
I would sure apprecaite any help , I am not sure how much tolerance is ok , and can be fixed when I level the slates.

The Gold Crown frames are pretty beefy, so you could sand the frame a little if you want to. The flatter surface you start with, the easier it will be to get your slates level. However, don't feel like you have to get it perfect. The frame will likely move a little under the load of the slates anyway. Get it as close as you feel comfortable messing with it, and you can take care of the rest when you shim the slates.

 

[book collector]

The Gold Crown frames are pretty beefy, so you could sand the frame a little if you want to. The flatter surface you start with, the easier it will be to get your slates level. However, don't feel like you have to get it perfect. The frame will likely move a little under the load of the slates anyway. Get it as close as you feel comfortable messing with it, and you can take care of the rest when you shim the slates.

Thanks, I'm getting the feeling that in the end , most of the slates will be resting only on the shims, am I correct or no?
Anyone can answer this question if they have experience.
Feel free to chime in even if you have never seen a table , plenty do in other threads! lol

 

[bradsh98]

Thanks, I'm getting the feeling that in the end , most of the slates will be resting only on the shims, am I correct or no?
Anyone can answer this question if they have experience.
Feel free to chime in even if you have never seen a table , plenty do in other threads! lol

That will be true, if you don't/can't even out the frame before you get the slates on it. Like I said before, the flatter surface you start with, the easier it'll be. Which basically means, less shimming you'll have to do. Ideally, you would start with a perfectly flat and level frame, and you could lay the slates on it, without having to shim at all. However, that never happens.

My experience with the GCIII frame is very limited, though I know it has some weaknesses. Realkingcobra has posted some clever fixes for strengthening the GCIII frame. You may want to research that before you get too far. That should help you with shimming the slates, and getting it level.

 

[book collector]

That will be true, if you don't/can't even out the frame before you get the slates on it. Like I said before, the flatter surface you start with, the easier it'll be. Which basically means, less shimming you'll have to do. Ideally, you would start with a perfectly flat and level frame, and you could lay the slates on it, without having to shim at all. However, that never happens.

My experience with the GCIII frame is very limited, though I know it has some weaknesses. Realkingcobra has posted some clever fixes for strengthening the GCIII frame. You may want to research that before you get too far. That should help you with shimming the slates, and getting it level.

Thanks again!

 

[book collector]

The guy I bought the level off was supposedly a machinist . he said the level had just been calibrated.
I spent 2 days chasing my tail around the table before I did some research and found out how to check the calibration.
It was off just enough to almost drive me nuts ! surprise surprise.
I did as one poster suggested and beefed up the frame with some steel brackets I got from Home Depot.
I noticed when I was leveling the table before that if I just barely leaned on any of the sides the level would move dramatically.
Now I can barely get it to wobble if I put my 200lbs on it.!
Thanks for that heads up!!
I now have the center slate about as level as it is going to get.
I can get everything perfect except 1 end is about 5 thousandths lower than everything else.
I have the screws in about 90% right now , when I finish tightening them , will I be able to shim that low corner up without throwing off the rest of the slate.? {Is there that much give in the slate? without cracking it ?}

I also put a ball on the slate . It will sit wherever I put it and if I give it a minute bump , it will roll a little and stop on it's own . {except that low corner}
I wish I had paid more attention over the years !
Any ideas /help is greatly appreciated.

 

[bradsh98]

The guy I bought the level off was supposedly a machinist . he said the level had just been calibrated.
I spent 2 days chasing my tail around the table before I did some research and found out how to check the calibration.
It was off just enough to almost drive me nuts ! surprise surprise.
I did as one poster suggested and beefed up the frame with some steel brackets I got from Home Depot.
I noticed when I was leveling the table before that if I just barely leaned on any of the sides the level would move dramatically.
Now I can barely get it to wobble if I put my 200lbs on it.!
Thanks for that heads up!!
I now have the center slate about as level as it is going to get.
I can get everything perfect except 1 end is about 5 thousandths lower than everything else.
I have the screws in about 90% right now , when I finish tightening them , will I be able to shim that low corner up without throwing off the rest of the slate.? {Is there that much give in the slate? without cracking it ?}

I also put a ball on the slate . It will sit wherever I put it and if I give it a minute bump , it will roll a little and stop on it's own . {except that low corner}
I wish I had paid more attention over the years !
Any ideas /help is greatly appreciated.

Machinist levels are really sensitive, and can be knocked out of calibration very easily. I always check mine before every use.

As for leveling the slates, you should have no problem shimming them up. You can flex a SLATE quite a bit. Brunstone, isn't as flexible (there is another active thread, currently, that discusses that). If you follow the leveling instructions that Glen wrote, you should be fine. It can be a pain, but just make sure you double or even triple check everything. And don't forget to shim under the center of the slates, along the support brace. They can sag, in time, if they aren't supported across the center.

 

[book collector]

Machinist levels are really sensitive, and can be knocked out of calibration very easily. I always check mine before every use.

As for leveling the slates, you should have no problem shimming them up. You can flex a SLATE quite a bit. Brunstone, isn't as flexible (there is another active thread, currently, that discusses that). If you follow the leveling instructions that Glen wrote, you should be fine. It can be a pain, but just make sure you double or even triple check everything. And don't forget to shim under the center of the slates, along the support brace. They can sag, in time, if they aren't supported across the center.

Thanks again Geoff , you have been a tremendous help,
I had planned on putting shims everywhere I could after I once get it level and ready for cloth . I will just put them in enough to not come loose , but not enough to raise the slate.

 

[bradsh98]

Thanks again Geoff , you have been a tremendous help,
I had planned on putting shims everywhere I could after I once get it level and ready for cloth . I will just put them in enough to not come loose , but not enough to raise the slate.

I'm a little confused. I think you are talking about under the center of the slates? If so, you are correct. You can check with the level. As Glen suggests, you can use a 4 foot, or longer, level, with a utility blade under each end. Put the machinist level on top, to get a more accurate reading. Place one end of the level on a spot that you know to be level with the plane of the playing surface, and place the other end where you place each shim (along the center support). It can be a pain with just one person, because you have to crawl out from under the table to check the level.

 

[fastone371]

The guy I bought the level off was supposedly a machinist . he said the level had just been calibrated.
I spent 2 days chasing my tail around the table before I did some research and found out how to check the calibration.
It was off just enough to almost drive me nuts !

Im not sure if you are aware but to check your level just put it on something very close to being level, take a reading, then turn it 180 degrees, take a reading, then see how they compare. There should be an adjusting screw for bubble adjustment to correct any discrepancies. The more careful you are checking the calibration the more accurate your results will be. Its a good habit to check your level before each use.

 

[bradsh98]

The guy I bought the level off was supposedly a machinist . he said the level had just been calibrated.
I spent 2 days chasing my tail around the table before I did some research and found out how to check the calibration.
It was off just enough to almost drive me nuts !

Im not sure if you are aware but to check your level just put it on something very close to being level, take a reading, then turn it 180 degrees, take a reading, then see how they compare. There should be an adjusting screw for bubble adjustment to correct any discrepancies. The more careful you are checking the calibration the more accurate your results will be. Its a good habit to check your level before each use.

It is important to note that it must be turned EXACTLY 180 degrees, and in the EXACT location of the first reading. The easiest way to achieve this, is to place the level in the corner of a square. Rotate the level so that it reads 'level', butt the square up against two edges of the level, hold the square in place, pick the level up and rotate it 180 degrees, butting it against the square, and take another reading. Turn the adjustment screw until it reads the same in both directions.

 

[ROB.M]

Post

Machinist levels are very sensitive tools, especially when the slate and level or the piece your working with is not room temperature or staple temps.

I let my starrett machinist level or levels sit on the slate for awhile to equal out the temperature.

The starrett 98 model is as sensitive as the skin on the bottom of your nut sack and that's no joke - well to temperate and touch that is- quick and even slight tempeture change will no doubt alter the reading.
If you pocess or own a starrett 98 or equlivant level; rest the tool on a level area to get a staple reading of the vial, place your fingers or hand at one end of the vial tube assembly for a few moments and watch the vial move/ the steel temp of the base from end to end differing will also alter the reading.
The base of the level is made of seasoned steel the vial is made of glass and the vial carrier/tube assembly is made of plated brass, the older levels are plated in nickel which makes them even more sensitive to temperature change.
every time you pick up the level and the two temperatures of you and the steel are not the in the same neighborhood you take a chance of altering the reading of the level. That's why there are fat steaks on the body of the level for you to pick it up by but carried differently to prevent from dropping the tool hence the finger holes in the frame.

Once you own a few thousand dollars worth of starrett 98 machinist levels you'll learn a thing or two about them..... That is if you check your levels for calibration!



Enjoy your frustration

Rob.M

 

[book collector]

I finally got the center slate as good as I think it is ever going to get, no direction off more than the width of the levels markings, 1/64 th of an inch?
I was amazed at how easy it was to get the end slates even and level once you have the center correct.
I will let it sit a day or two and recheck , I'm in Ohio, so beeswax should be fine, from what I have read, to fill the seams ?
I'm thinking of using the glue to hold the cloth down ?
Any thoughts on that?
Also, if I make a mistake , can it be taken up and done again?

 

[bradsh98]

I finally got the center slate as good as I think it is ever going to get, no direction off more than the width of the levels markings, 1/64 th of an inch?
I was amazed at how easy it was to get the end slates even and level once you have the center correct.
I will let it sit a day or two and recheck , I'm in Ohio, so beeswax should be fine, from what I have read, to fill the seams ?
I'm thinking of using the glue to hold the cloth down ?
Any thoughts on that?
Also, if I make a mistake , can it be taken up and done again?

Beeswax will work fine for the seams. Just make sure you bond the seams together with super glue.

To bond the seams, you can use index cards, business cards, or even paper towel (folded into a couple of layers). It works best if you use a material that the glue will wick into. Materials with a glossy surface, such as playing cards, don't work very well. The width of the material isn't too critical, 2-3 inches is fine.

Slide the 'wicks' into the seam at 3-5 locations along the seam. Usually, one at the edge of the playing surface, on each side, and one in the middle. You could also split that span in half, to give you 5 total. Don't worry about them sticking up above the surface of the slate, because you'll shave them down after you glue them.

As for gluing the cloth down, you are correct in that it is more forgiving. Make sure you use a neoprene contact cement, and roll it on. Most aerosol contact cement doesn't have the holding power needed, for stretching Simonis. 3m-98 aerosol contact cement has quite a bit of holding power, but it is difficult to use, and makes a big mess. Better to roll it on.

 

[book collector]

Beeswax will work fine for the seams. Just make sure you bond the seams together with super glue.

To bond the seams, you can use index cards, business cards, or even paper towel (folded into a couple of layers). It works best if you use a material that the glue will wick into. Materials with a glossy surface, such as playing cards, don't work very well. The width of the material isn't too critical, 2-3 inches is fine.

Slide the 'wicks' into the seam at 3-5 locations along the seam. Usually, one at the edge of the playing surface, on each side, and one in the middle. You could also split that span in half, to give you 5 total. Don't worry about them sticking up above the surface of the slate, because you'll shave them down after you glue them.

As for gluing the cloth down, you are correct in that it is more forgiving. Make sure you use a neoprene contact cement, and roll it on. Most aerosol contact cement doesn't have the holding power needed, for stretching Simonis. 3m-98 aerosol contact cement has quite a bit of holding power, but it is difficult to use, and makes a big mess. Better to roll it on.

Thank you!

 

[book collector]

Ok, I got sick and couldn't do much for a while.
I have finagled and fiddled and finally got this table as level as I think I ever will , nothing I can find is off more than the thickness of a piece of paper.
I was so thrilled today that I bondoed the seams and then came back and read some of the new posts and realised I had forgotten to put something between the slates and superglue them , I spent all day sanding and cleaning and getting everything perfect, is the superglue important enough to open it back up, and put in, and redo all that work?
Also I just went to find instructions on how to install the Simonis 860 cloth and their website says only authorized mechanics can buy the dvd?
I am not sure if I will staple or glue, anyone have input as to which they would do in my place and why?
Thanks in advance.
I watched a local "pro" put the cloth on upside down on one, so I know I can't do any worse.

 

[fastone371]

I did not glue my GCII slates at all, going on 4 years with no problems, although the table sits on concrete. As far as Simonis DVDs, I bought mine from Seyberts.

 

[book collector]

I did not glue my GCII slates at all, going on 4 years with no problems, although the table sits on concrete. As far as Simonis DVDs, I bought mine from Seyberts.

Thanks very much.

 

[ROB.M]

Table

On the ends of the slate seam you might be able to stick paper in the gap, if you can fit paper in the gaps on the end shove in some paper and squeeze in liquid super glue.

Keep in mind that I'm assuming the face of the slate joint is clean and free of the filler last used to fill the seam last.
I do suggest you start over and use minimal amount of filler unless you've got really bad uneven seams that need to be feathered.

Best of luck.




Rob.M