Experience always counts for something.
I have seen women born in the USA play, and I can't think of one that plays the speed of a top amateur male player.
Men vs. women
- Thread starter Donny Lutz
- Start date
Experience always counts for something.
I have seen women born in the USA play, and I can't think of one that plays the speed of a top amateur male player.
Any ten men
You misunderstand.
I said "any 10 American men" because there would be lots of disagreement on who the 10 best men are...
You misunderstand.
I said "any 10 American men" because there would be lots of disagreement on who the 10 best men are...
I have watched dozens of tournaments of both the women and the men. The top women players such as Ga Young Kim, Karen Corr, Allison Fisher, Kelly Fisher play at a very similar level to the men after the break in 9 Ball. I think it might be interesting to watch men and women compete in something that was not so break oriented.
Usa?
You may have failed to notice that I said the World's 10 Best Women players. Americans are not automatically the standard for all things...
...if you compare American men to the rest of the world, you will see a similar result. How many American men would be on the World's 10 Best list?
You may have failed to notice that I said the World's 10 Best Women players. Americans are not automatically the standard for all things...
...if you compare American men to the rest of the world, you will see a similar result. How many American men would be on the World's 10 Best list?
I think you may be asking the wrong question. Maybe you should ask how many women actually want to play that much pool to get to an extremely high level ----
Let's see what they have to look forward to: Hang out in dive pool rooms, spend a fortune on table time, match up against ego maniacs, have to listen to all the woofing and name-calling....gee that all sounds so appealing. Shall we talk about the drugs too?
Maybe the conditions in China are a little more controlled, not that I would recommend anyone moving to China. There's the other side of the coin with having to live there.
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Break power?
There's much more to the break than just power. And even having said that, have you seen Jasmine Ouschan's break? Or 95-lb Xaoting Pan's break?
When Efren played Jeannette he was the best player on the planet, and possibly of all time. Hardly a fair comparison.
There's much more to the break than just power. And even having said that, have you seen Jasmine Ouschan's break? Or 95-lb Xaoting Pan's break?
When Efren played Jeannette he was the best player on the planet, and possibly of all time. Hardly a fair comparison.
You little mysognist...
Pool has a great potential to be a gender neutral sport.
The challange isn`t so much getting female players up to the same speed as the male pro`s (some are already pretty close)
The challange is to make the pool environment more conducive to female players.
Pool needs to become less alpha male gung ho! and embrace both female players and young players.
Donny, let me first say there are many many women that play awesome and will handily beat just about any man they play. With that being said, I believe the stereotype comes from the fact that just by the #"s there are way more males that play better than females that play.
PS - I am mad at you Donny, I took a lesson from you back in the day at the old Champions and I still have not been able to turn pro or win the Open. Jk of course - You play great Donny.
PS - I am mad at you Donny, I took a lesson from you back in the day at the old Champions and I still have not been able to turn pro or win the Open. Jk of course - You play great Donny.
I didn't realize that my new Digital SLR had a flash on it and I flashed the shit out of Jayson in the middle of a shot. I felt like a total ass after that. At least he and I are friends, or that could have been bad.
In the 1980s it was very popular to hold the view that boys and girls were equal, and that it was only "society" that taught them to be superior/inferior or in any way different. Adherents to this view set up every kind of "equality" they could: toys, early learning, social interactions, etc. were all designed so the boys and girls would have equal experiences.
It didn't do any good; they boys acted and grew up like boys and the girls grew up and acted like girls. A small, dedicated core of true believers justified the results as "we just didn't control their environments enough." Everyone else moved on and accepted that boys and girls are simply different.
Have women been suppressed and mis-treated? Of course, they have. But that doesn't negate the fact that men and women have different physical and mental skills.
You may not buy it but I do.
I didn't say anything about size. I did mention strength, speed, and overall eye-hand coordination. I will say up front that I have not actually studied this issue. My opinions are just based on different things I've read over the years and a bunch of anecdotal evidence I've observed while playing sports while growing up and now coaching and observing youth sports with my children. There are indeed physiological differences between the two sexes.
I guess the question is - what affect does (or would) an increase in strength and speed play in pool. Let's talk about Dennis Orcullo for a second. He is by no means a giant but he can really stroke the ball. If you were to set up a stroke contest between Orcullo and any female do you think any of them could fire the ball in and draw it back as far as he could? Or spin the cue ball as powerfully as he could?
I don't, especially if you took a woman that was the exact same size as him. Mainly, because if you looked at them closely, I think you would find that he had stronger and quicker forearms, wrists, triceps, etc.
When you analyze the top men's strokes you realize they are much more powerful than are the women's. Why is this?
It’s either because there is some sort of physical difference or because the men have put in more time at the table. I tend to believe it’s physical.
Well, many now say -- "So what. You really don't need that powerful of a stroke to play great pool." To which I say -- I agree, the fast cloth that is common place today makes these stroking differences harder to identify, BUT they are there and what happens is the men get to play a game where they seldom have to push their strokes to their limit. They get to play well within their comfort zone on the vast majority of their shots. Very seldom to they have to stroke the ball at the outer limit of what they are capable of doing. The women on the other hand do and over the course of a long match you see this more often than you do with the men. Put the top women on the ten foot table and I think you would see this even more clearly.
So - I think there are differences in strength and speed and it does matter. You just have to watch very closely to see it.
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Question: Why don't more of the top women play in more of the Open tournaments? I for one would like to see the streamed games when they play male (tournament drawn) counterparts. We see their names listed and their results, but not how they played. It would be a nice change.
Action days
Yeah, me too. The risk of getting shot, stabbed or robbed on the way to your car. Having to quit cuz your opponent had a bigger bankroll. Making up rules as you go along. Yeah, I really miss that stuff...
I made money on the tables every year that I played between 1965 and 2009, but my biggest thrills came in league and tournament competition.
On the other hand, one of my best friends, a better player than I since 1975, has been broke for almost 30 years because of his gambling addiction.
To each his own. I respect your opinion.
Yeah, me too. The risk of getting shot, stabbed or robbed on the way to your car. Having to quit cuz your opponent had a bigger bankroll. Making up rules as you go along. Yeah, I really miss that stuff...
I made money on the tables every year that I played between 1965 and 2009, but my biggest thrills came in league and tournament competition.
On the other hand, one of my best friends, a better player than I since 1975, has been broke for almost 30 years because of his gambling addiction.
To each his own. I respect your opinion.
Who would you bet a large some of your money on, the men or the women?
I don't have a great answer as to why but the men are still superior players to the women. I will agree that the women are getting better but have not quite caught the men. I do hope that they can and will as I think it will be great for the game.
By the way I have no problem losing to women but I do my best to beat everyone I play.
Kevin
Brown - thats only because they want us too look at something other than their top or bottom while they are shooting lol.
overall
odds better yes but they still won't get there. Two top men in a field of top 32 women and races to 9 or more the men will finish very high very often. I don't know stats but I would bet out of all the open events women compete in they finish around where a shortstop would finish. Gambling is worse for them. Women are not the future of pool although I would love to see more of it. I enjoy watching them play. Their is just not enough high quality players out there.
As far as insults go? The men do that shit to each other all day see every Earl match ever played.
odds better yes but they still won't get there. Two top men in a field of top 32 women and races to 9 or more the men will finish very high very often. I don't know stats but I would bet out of all the open events women compete in they finish around where a shortstop would finish. Gambling is worse for them. Women are not the future of pool although I would love to see more of it. I enjoy watching them play. Their is just not enough high quality players out there.
As far as insults go? The men do that shit to each other all day see every Earl match ever played.
It's kind of compairing apples and oranges. Football (plus a shovel
)vs Martial Arts. Now if it was Bruce vs Jew Lewis, Sorry Bruce my money would be on Joe (full out fighting that is, not in the movies like against Chuck)...
discussion
This discussion always leads the same place and ends up the same way. I think Chris B will tell you too. Line them all up and he'll play them all. only problem you will have is no one will back the women. Chris will get to have his own auction to see who will give him the highest percentage to play. Forget it if you want go above Chris to Shane, Archer, Donny, Hatch, Dechaine, who ever else you want to say is the next tier.
I don't think the top 10 females could beat a team of Chip, Joey, Justin H, Justin B, Larry, Klatt, Shuff, etc.
This discussion always leads the same place and ends up the same way. I think Chris B will tell you too. Line them all up and he'll play them all. only problem you will have is no one will back the women. Chris will get to have his own auction to see who will give him the highest percentage to play. Forget it if you want go above Chris to Shane, Archer, Donny, Hatch, Dechaine, who ever else you want to say is the next tier.
I don't think the top 10 females could beat a team of Chip, Joey, Justin H, Justin B, Larry, Klatt, Shuff, etc.