You certainly get a different view than I do. When I watch the women play, I do not see a Reyes, Sigel, Strickland, Bustamante caliber player at all. Don't know why that is, but I don't see it.
Men vs. women
- Thread starter Donny Lutz
- Start date
You certainly get a different view than I do. When I watch the women play, I do not see a Reyes, Sigel, Strickland, Bustamante caliber player at all. Don't know why that is, but I don't see it.
Since the 70s I have believed that women should be capable of playing pool at near the same level as men. Average physical differences giving men a slight advantage. The real difference is the respective tolerance of pool rooms and the pool scene. Just like most men would not find a sewing circle atmosphere tolerable most women do not find pool room atmosphere tolerable.
I like the atmosphere in most pool rooms. I have nothing against women in the room and I believe women should be welcomed, but I don't think men should be expected to give up their room atmosphere any more than I would expect the sewing circle to supply cold beer in a plastic ice box without glasses and napkins.
If it's PC to celebrate different cultures how come it isn't PC to celebrate different sexes?
I like the atmosphere in most pool rooms. I have nothing against women in the room and I believe women should be welcomed, but I don't think men should be expected to give up their room atmosphere any more than I would expect the sewing circle to supply cold beer in a plastic ice box without glasses and napkins.
If it's PC to celebrate different cultures how come it isn't PC to celebrate different sexes?
I don't understand why your scenario is World's Women vs. American Men.
A more valid test of the hypothesis is either World's Women vs World's Men, or American Women vs American Men.
Donny, I understand what you are saying (I didn't bet on that one), but comparing that to having the top men match up with the top women is not remotely close to the same thing in my opinion. Please keep in mind I am not saying the women couldn't compete or even win some matches...but taking 10 from each side and from what I have seen in terms of shooting by both sexes, I just don't think the women could stand a chance...just an opinion and I too would watch it if it happened.
Edit...+ 1 to bdormans post above...sounds like sort of handicapping the matchup.
Physiological advantage is a proven fact (look up the research).
It's called eye-hand coordination.
Men are just simply wired better for spatial (as in surroundings) activities.
This "hard-wiring" goes back to the days when men had to hunt and out-maneuver their prey.
Men move their bodies, and by definition, their feet and HANDS better than women.
Pool has a lot of eye-hand skills associated with it (as with most sports), and in general,
men will be better at pool.
If anyone thinks the top women in the world in pool can beat their similar counterparts (in the long run)
in ANY game he or she is sorely mistaken.
Female pool players IN GENERAL DO possess some attributes that make up for the, dare I say, "inferior"
eye-hand coordination, e.g. composure, patience, but this is not sufficient for a top-level female to beat a top-level male.
That's just the way it is, folks.
A woman bowler has a far better chance of beating a male bowler.....
...'cause he can't keep his mind out of the gutter when she's around.
PT - Awesome I love that one.
Don't need no stinkin' top 10....
..when Cliff Joyner was the best 1-pocket player, I think he needed the
7 off the top 10 9-ball players.
...and Cliff gave Allison, in her prime, in her home room, the 7....
....and robbed her for $6,000
Because...
Because it's American men, even more so than other men around the world who have been saying for years that women are inferior to men.
If women are so inferior, why would it matter where they come from?
My point, lost among the defensive responses by macho men, is that women are way better than they were just a few years ago, and the American men are not...but they can't accept it.
I didn't present any hypothesis, other than why I think the women would have a legitimate chance. I'm not looking for a "valid test" to see whether either sex is superior to the other. I'm really presenting ideas as to why women (and men) around the world seem to be improving while American players (with few exceptions) seem to be in a rut. How many American players would you place in the World Top 10, men or women?
I understand why Americans (especially the men) find it so difficult to admit not being the best at anything and everything, but reality is reality.
Because it's American men, even more so than other men around the world who have been saying for years that women are inferior to men.
If women are so inferior, why would it matter where they come from?
My point, lost among the defensive responses by macho men, is that women are way better than they were just a few years ago, and the American men are not...but they can't accept it.
I didn't present any hypothesis, other than why I think the women would have a legitimate chance. I'm not looking for a "valid test" to see whether either sex is superior to the other. I'm really presenting ideas as to why women (and men) around the world seem to be improving while American players (with few exceptions) seem to be in a rut. How many American players would you place in the World Top 10, men or women?
I understand why Americans (especially the men) find it so difficult to admit not being the best at anything and everything, but reality is reality.
Did I really read that religious oppression led to the divide in pool skills?
That is as believable as the past 200 years' weather patterns being indicative of global warming.
I think the psychological and physiological differences go much farther back than that.
Men have been the hunters/ fighters/ competitors/ risk takers for far longer than religion has existed.
That is as believable as the past 200 years' weather patterns being indicative of global warming.
I think the psychological and physiological differences go much farther back than that.
Men have been the hunters/ fighters/ competitors/ risk takers for far longer than religion has existed.
Best post yet. :thumbup:
I'm not surprised at this response, Blah.
I spell pretty good, but I have some gurus when I'm stumped and not
near a dictionary or a computer.....
.....and they are all women.
Donny the fields of study that you reference have nothing to do with the data as it relates to pool. Efren slept under a pool table in a pool hall from the time he was 9 years old. What women could live this lifestyle/ Sports is based on statistical data it is unequivocal not subject to fashion. Efren is getting a little long in the tooth; by your reckoning he should be able to join the women's tour.
Women will be equal in pool when the data suggests they are and not moment before. But then again this kind of psycho babble might make you get lucky.
Sure sounds like a working hypothesis to me. But I'm curious: what's the hang-up about American men? Any worldwise businesswoman will tell you that American men are among the least prejudiced in the world. Try the "men and women are equal" line in China, Japan, Philippines, any middle eastern country...ad infinitum; just don't expect anyone to talk with you after that. They will literally view you as a fool to be humored, but not taken seriously.
In any case, skill improvements are incremental. A group (women) can improve from 70% skill to 90% skill pretty easily with coaching and practice. Improvements above 90% come very slowly and usually aren't even recognized by anyone except the keenest observers. The difficulty of incremental change is very common in all skills, not just pool.
Please no Flak, im just floating an idea. How's about this: For some time, quite along time US men set the bar for pool playing. Over recent times while other groups were substantially behind these US men they began to improve - alot. Gains were more noticable because of net gains. Not so much for US men because of this example - the closer u travel to the speed of light the amount of energy required to continue advancing closer multiplies exponentially. Just an idea dont get mad anyone.
Donny, with this opening sentence, you throw away any chance of meaningful conversation. You've put up a convenient defense which nobody will win with any attempt to defy. There is only losing in trying to defend or oppose such a statement.
What I know is that this week on ESPN3, the WPBA showcased some of the best female players in the world currently on a Diamond 9' table. TAR showcased the current best US player vs the all-time greatest all around player on a Diamond 9' table . Currently, there is a bridge in skill sets, completely overlooking the break. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who watched both that could deny that and be honest to himself.
Freddie <~~~ hates these comparisons for a zillion reasons