Handicapping has ruined the SPORT!

Please forgive my english, not the best.
I'm trying to point out that the rest of us players should not meet in tournament with pros in alternate break or handicap formats. Whatever happens outside tournaments is another thing, but tournaments should always promote excellence and nothing else.
Same applies for all levels, each player at her/his level, straight up against her/his opponents until she/he moves to the next level.
The less good players than the best (still very good players) left tournaments years ago because prize money was not well spread and they could not follow. That era of players gave more into the game than they got.
But nowdays we are going to the opposite direction, people coming into the game wanting immediately to get more than they give, without the hard work.
This has consequences on the sport aspect of the game, other aspects are different.
So we need to think about this, times change, economy is harder, not 100% sure Pool as a sport will survive forever unless the delicate balance between tournament formats is kept.
Thanks again,
Petros
 
Banks said:
For the same reason it doesn't apply to pro pool? They are pros, they're not just recreational players that want to get out of the house once a week or more.

As for the second question.. both apa and bca do that. Bca has quite large events where players play against others in their group straight up. Apa has a few similar events, but they deal more with teams and mixing players together.

Some of the more popular tournaments around here are handicapped one way or another.

Trob - Iirc, you've said before that you were an 8 for a while. Also, the reason that a 4 is happy that they beat a 9 is because they played well for where they're at.

Who wants to discuss how long they've been playing, how much money they've invested in products and lessons and how well they play? We can get right down to it.
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I guess for a while is 2 months lol I know they brought me In as a 7 and I think the last week of that first session I was a 9. I didn't play every week because the numbers didn't work out. We had another 8 on the team.

I'm not against handy Capp play. I think there is a place for both but here's a question that just dawned on me. Why is not okay for say a 9 to be annoyed losing because of the spot but it's exceptable for a lower level player crying because they can't win without a spot? I've heard plenty of both in my year and a half in Apa.

Oh and the answer to why the long arguments over the spot when gambling is simple. Cash... Sweet cash is on the line lol
 
trob said:
I guess for a while is 2 months lol I know they brought me In as a 7 and I think the last week of that first session I was a 9. I didn't play every week because the numbers didn't work out. We had another 8 on the team.

I'm not against handy Capp play. I think there is a place for both but here's a question that just dawned on me. Why is not okay for say a 9 to be annoyed losing because of the spot but it's exceptable for a lower level player crying because they can't win without a spot? I've heard plenty of both in my year and a half in Apa.

Oh and the answer to why the long arguments over the spot when gambling is simple. Cash... Sweet cash is on the line lol
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There is absolutely no reason why a 9 can't be annoyed when they lose to a 4. Or any other skill level. Being disappointed in ones play seems natural to me, and shouldn't be reserved for lower skilled players. Blaming it on the spot is a whole other discussion.

A lower skill level player beating a 9, well, they should be happy. You will run out most tables, most times, or leave them shifty. If they can put enough together to get to their number before you, that is a victory. Should they get all puffed up and think they're better than you, of course not. I'm thrilled any time I beat a better player, but not under any illusions of playing like them. (Yet!) I certainly don't gloat.

And about "the cash"... If I play in a tourney, its my "cash" that I'm gambling with for the entry fee. Is that supposed to be less important than the cash someone puts up in a gambling match? Not when its my cash we're talking about.
 
Man there are nights I walk in and am stringing racks together the I could have to go to a 100 first and it wouldn't matter lol then there are nights where you play a 5 and he or she having a great night and they play more like a 7. That's tough to beat lol it is what it is so why get to upset when you lose or to happy when you win. I just try to stay on a nice even keel no matter what.

And to me a tournament is different. You have no idea who your gonna play and must win a lot of matches to win the tournament. Gambling just isn't the same to me. It's two guys trying to get the odds in there favor for a single match. That's what gamblers/hustlers do. Always looking for that angle to increase there odds

justadub said:
There is absolutely no reason why a 9 can't be annoyed when they lose to a 4. Or any other skill level. Being disappointed in ones play seems natural to me, and shouldn't be reserved for lower skilled players. Blaming it on the spot is a whole other discussion.

A lower skill level player beating a 9, well, they should be happy. You will run out most tables, most times, or leave them shifty. If they can put enough together to get to their number before you, that is a victory. Should they get all puffed up and think they're better than you, of course not. I'm thrilled any time I beat a better player, but not under any illusions of playing like them. (Yet!) I certainly don't gloat.

And about "the cash"... If I play in a tourney, its my "cash" that I'm gambling with for the entry fee. Is that supposed to be less important than the cash someone puts up in a gambling match? Not when its my cash we're talking about.
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flyvirginiaguy said:
I think one should really measure what "great action" is first. The "great action" at the DCC is something that was happening at about every pool room in the country just decades ago (without handicapping).


.
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Total BS. They were giving spots out decades ago. Artie B. use to give a guy some crazy spots like 18-2 in one pocket to get nobody's at the table, and then rob them.

Everyone was matching up, and sometimes it might take an hour, a week or even a month to get the "right" spot worked out and agreed by all parties for the big money games. But rarely was someone playing "even" as you like to think. Especially in bank pool and one pocket. Who was gonna play Bugs "even" without being legally insane ??

So, now that many local tourneys do it, suddenly it is ruining the game. News flash.. MOST of of that "dead" money goes to the better players hands down, and that you can take to the bank.
 
I couldn't agree with you more. When I started playing I started out playing with better players, and even though I was "tuna" to them, I started practicing and got better and was able to hold my own. When I came back after a 10 year hiadas I did the same thing. I don't have a problem playing anyone heads up, if I loose, it's a free lesson. If I win, I pat myself on the back for playing better than the other player.

I was a scratch bowler for many years as well. All HANDICAP does is let the smaller fish swim with the bigger ones and make the bigger fish have to play just that much better to make sure they cover the HANDICAP just like he or she would if playing a heads up match with Effren.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Total BS. They were giving spots out decades ago. Artie B. use to give a guy some crazy spots like 18-2 in one pocket to get nobody's at the table, and then rob them.

Everyone was matching up, and sometimes it might take an hour, a week or even a month to get the "right" spot worked out and agreed by all parties for the big money games. But rarely was someone playing "even" as you like to think. Especially in bank pool and one pocket. Who was gonna play Bugs "even" without being legally insane ??

So, now that many local tourneys do it, suddenly it is ruining the game. News flash.. MOST of of that "dead" money goes to the better players hands down, and that you can take to the bank.
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Damnit RJ you know I don't like agreeing with you but here I am doing it again..... I have NEVER lost a league match because of a handicap... I have played below my level or ran into a guy on fire but never ever did a handicap beat me....

As far as gambling that's different... I'll give up a spot but I have never asked for 1... I don't have the itch that requires me to be in action so if I need weight I don't play.. I go work on getting better and hopefully I make a jump and won't need the spot down the road....

I guess that's my pride getting in my way... Funny how something as silly as that works... Getting spots from better players would have had me playing better players for the last 20 years instead of knocking out cupcakes and hoping I found the elusive secret on my own.....

I have never minded getting or giving weight in tournaments... And that was how I always gauged my progress.... Funny thing that pride is... Isn't it?

Chris
 
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Just played a handicapped tournament last night. 48 players. There is an open 9 ball tournament today. I guarantee you there will not be 16. People want a chance to win. I think there is a place for both but you have to add real money for an open tournament to draw people from out of town. Naturally, there are less "open" players in a given area. People have to think they have a chance.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Total BS. They were giving spots out decades ago. Artie B. use to give a guy some crazy spots like 18-2 in one pocket to get nobody's at the table, and then rob them.

Everyone was matching up, and sometimes it might take an hour, a week or even a month to get the "right" spot worked out and agreed by all parties for the big money games. But rarely was someone playing "even" as you like to think. Especially in bank pool and one pocket. Who was gonna play Bugs "even" without being legally insane ??

So, now that many local tourneys do it, suddenly it is ruining the game. News flash.. MOST of of that "dead" money goes to the better players hands down, and that you can take to the bank.
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If you think handicapping is not as prevalent and existent now than back then (70-80s), you have lost your mind.
 
flyvirginiaguy said:
If you think handicapping is not as prevalent and existent now than back then (70-80s), you have lost your mind.
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Well, then tell me who played Bugs banks even. Show me the list of names, I'd like to see it. It would be a very small list, maybe 2 or 3 names.

Show me the guys that played Artie B 1P even, I'd like to see the list. Oh sure, he played top pro's even, but everyone else he was giving it up, or nobody would EVER play him...and even then he still robbed them all.

Heck, Efren, who was around in the 70's and 80's, and was even taught 1P but a famous Chicago banker, still gives out HUGE spots to get action. I don't recall anyone using the term "handicap", that was for horses not pool. But "spots", yep, all you can eat baby :thumbup:

It did NOT ruin action, it encouraged it. Lots of decent players with jobs back then, and they had the most money. How in the world was a stone cold killer hustler, who did not work 9-5, thus no steady check, gonna get his hands on his cash without a sport? One word. SPOT.

Same thing with HC tourneys... it encourages the folks with cash in their pockets to step up to the plate cause they are getting one or two games on the wire.... and yet the top players still always win, but every now and then, a few "fish" end up in the money at least :)
 
I was there so I know.....

David Marcus said:
Nobody out there remembers THOSE DAYS!
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The start was alternate break. I won a whole bunch of tournys before that.

The poorer players still didn't have much of a chance but it turned it into a dog fight with the last 8 players or so.

Now with all the different divisions a $10,000 added tournament gets chopped up about 6 ways.

Master and AA giving the AA's a spot. B division. C division Women's division.

And then the biggest chunk going to the team events that are handicapped.

All about filling up the Casinos but that is what needs to be done.

But there are so many more tournaments today than ever before. This handicap thing and divisions is the reason.

Pool is better than ever before.

I liked it before and I still like it. The more the marrier
 
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