Safety Shot, foul or legal?

A

a.jin88

Registered
I'm sure this has been asked, but I scrolled back a few pages and couldn't see it. I've been away from the game for over a year now, and wanted to get a new opinion on a safety. I looked for a video on youtube, but couldnt' find one so I guess I'll just explain.
When the cb and ob are almost frozen on a rail, but not, and someone puts their cue down under the edge of the cue ball and lifts up quickly, is it a foul?

I know before I quit playing, we usually had someone watch the hit and called it good as long as the cue ball never left the table (implying there was a 'push') but it recently came up as an illegal shot and foul. I was just looking for a newer opinion.
 
I could be wrong but it could be considered as scooping the ball witch is a foul but I could be wrong
 
That's my biggest question I suppose. If the cue ball never leaves the table and it is still a hit, is a foul? The hit would be very light in a very fast motion. Is this done any where else?
 
Idk that's a hard one most shoot away I'm sure someone will know sorry I couldn't help lol
 
Rules

a.jin88 said:
I'm sure this has been asked, but I scrolled back a few pages and couldn't see it. I've been away from the game for over a year now, and wanted to get a new opinion on a safety. I looked for a video on youtube, but couldnt' find one so I guess I'll just explain.
When the cb and ob are almost frozen on a rail, but not, and someone puts their cue down under the edge of the cue ball and lifts up quickly, is it a foul?

I know before I quit playing, we usually had someone watch the hit and called it good as long as the cue ball never left the table (implying there was a 'push') but it recently came up as an illegal shot and foul. I was just looking for a newer opinion.
Click to expand...

Wether it is a foul or not depends on what rules you are playing under. Most rules after contact, object ball or Cue-ball must contact a rail otherwise it is foul.
 
Poolhalljunkie said:
Wether it is a foul or not depends on what rules you are playing under. Most rules after contact, object ball or Cue-ball must contact a rail otherwise it is foul.
Click to expand...

I agree, however the balls are not frozen. Say..

Rail = |
Balls = (ob/cb)

|| (ob) (cb)

Not frozen, but too close to shoot straight into without double hitting cue ball
 
I learned the shot you're talking about while watching a clash of the titans match with John Morra and someone else but I can't remember who. More importantly, it was a legal shot but because the balls are so close you do have to watch for a double hit.
 
Legal

a.jin88 said:
I agree, however the balls are not frozen. Say..

Rail = |
Balls = (ob/cb)

|| (ob) (cb)

Not frozen, but too close to shoot straight into without double hitting cue ball
Click to expand...

To answer your original question, as long as a foul is not committed during the shot, I.E. no double hit, no prolonged tip contact, then I would call it good. I have seen a couple different instructors teach it.
 
Legal?

Rasputin said:
By the WPA rules you must stroke the cue in a forward motion (with respect to its axis). Thus a foul. (Or in fact, unsportmanslike conduct, as a misuse of equipment.)

A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#8.2
Click to expand...

It's been debated for a long time.

But I can show you at least four other ways to avoid the double hit in this situation.
 
Rasputin had it right. FOUL all the way. The actual rule in the WPA was written expressly for that shot. Before the rule was written, it was legal and used occasionally.

It's like one of those other rules, like hitting the cue with the butt of your cue or picking up the cue ball and handing it to your opponent without actually attempting a shot.

And I'm sure that if you were playing in some bar for whatever and someone does that shot, you could point out the rule and your opponent might just say, "we're playing by these other rules" so you're stuck. Too many rules floating around.

L8R...Ken
 
Foul!

that shot is a FOUL all the way!!!!!! The cue tip has to travel in the same plane of the shaft, meaning...FORWARD, IT CAN NOT TRAVEL UPWARDS IN REGARD TO THE SHAFT!! it is a neat shot, however it is a FOUL, unless no body wants to enforce the rules which happens a lot these days!!!
 
a.jin88 said:
I'm sure this has been asked, but I scrolled back a few pages and couldn't see it. I've been away from the game for over a year now, and wanted to get a new opinion on a safety. I looked for a video on youtube, but couldnt' find one so I guess I'll just explain.
When the cb and ob are almost frozen on a rail, but not, and someone puts their cue down under the edge of the cue ball and lifts up quickly, is it a foul?

I know before I quit playing, we usually had someone watch the hit and called it good as long as the cue ball never left the table (implying there was a 'push') but it recently came up as an illegal shot and foul. I was just looking for a newer opinion.
Click to expand...

That is a foul. You can only shoot in a standard forward motion, not up. It does not matter if the cue ball is frozen or not, it's an illegal motion to the shot. At the most, you can shoot forward and swipe across maybe as some people do that anyway if they have a bad stroke and try to use spin.
 
It is a legal shot

You probably can't execute it. Takes a player. Works best one handed. You are using the rock's curve as a tool to move it that distance. It is a very clean strike almost a whiff or it is a foul. Easy to blow. As for shooting up through the rock or down and that is how you draw or follow by the way including low follow and high follow which are not fouls the tip has to hit the cue ball foreward. It can't do that because as the Cueball moves it must be pushed foreward. If I masse the front of the Cueball when the balls are almost frozen to follow the Cueball 8 feet is it a foul. No. Not even if it passes the rock. Which is not allowed to pass the rock's place on the table by it's diameter. When you see something happen and you can'e execute the shot you really are clueless what has to happen with the Cuestick and Cueball and the stroke. You are not doing anything but explaining why you can't execute the shot and that is because your mind has a linit and has reached it. Pool is objective not subjective. If I explain how something works physically you subjectively say that isn't lega'. It isn't legal if I play as bad as you. I will say that.
Nick :)
 
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nick serdula said:
You probably can't execute it. Takes a player. Works best one handed. You are using the rock's curve as a tool to move it that distance. It is a very clean strike almost a whiff or it is a foul. Easy to blow. As for shooting up through the rock or down and that is how you draw or follow by the way including low follow and high follow which are not fouls the tip has to hit the cue ball foreward. It can't do that because as the Cueball moves it must be pushed foreward. If I masse the front of the Cueball when the balls are almost frozen to follow the Cueball 8 feet is it a foul. No. Not even if it passes the rock. Which is not allowed to pass the rock's place on the table by it's diameter. When you see something happen and you can'e execute the shot you really are clueless what has to happen with the Cuestick and Cueball and the stroke. You are not doing anything but explaining why you can't execute the shot and that is because your mind has a linit and has reached it. Pool is objective not subjective. If I explain how something works physically you subjectively say that isn't lega'. It isn't legal if I play as bad as you. I will say that.
Nick :)
Click to expand...

It's not a legal shot. He's lifting up on the cue.

LEGAL STROKE - You must use a legal stroke. A legal stoke is defined as the forward motion of the cue stick resulting in the cue tip striking the cue ball for the momentary time customarily associated with a normal shot. This is to include Masse, Jump shots, and vertical "nip" strokes. What are not legal stokes are any lifting, side-way or brushing motion of the cue stick such that the force that propels the cue ball does not primarily result from a forward motion of the cue stick is a foul.
 
Rasputin said:
By the WPA rules you must stroke the cue in a forward motion (with respect to its axis). Thus a foul. (Or in fact, unsportmanslike conduct, as a misuse of equipment.)

A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#8.2
Click to expand...

It could be argued that the tip of the cue does go forward during the arc on it's upward motion.
 
dabarbr said:
It could be argued that the tip of the cue does go forward during the arc on it's upward motion.
Click to expand...

It could be. Also it could be argued that no-one gets anywhere because to get someone you first have to travel 1/2 the distance to the object, then another 1/2 and so on. You'll never reach it.

Also since technically no object actually touches another one due to the space between molecules, fire can't burn you.
 
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