Did The JB vs Lou Match Settle The Great Aiming Debate Once & For All?

OK, I will profess to being new to CTE and not an expert but I am going to give this my best shot.

The geometry and the math needed to pocket a ball must be the same no matter what system you use. The tables are still 2:1 and the balls on the table are all the same size. What's different is how you perceive the cue ball - object ball relationship. CTE uses edges and center of the ball, while ghost ball is a visualization of the cue ball contacting the object ball in a specific point.

It seems to me that the debate really isn't whether any of these systems work on a mathematical level because they all do, but which one is more accurate and consistent.

That last sentence is really up to an individual and what they are most comfortable with. To this there really can be no "right or wrong" answer.

Cheers.

duckie said:
HAMB is not a aiming system but a training concept.

I've posted drawings of how I aim using the geometry of a shot based on Ghost Ball prinicple.

Can any CTE user say the same?
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duckie said:
HAMB is not a aiming system but a training concept.

I've posted drawings of how I aim using the geometry of a shot based on Ghost Ball prinicple.

Can any CTE user say the same?
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Sure I can say the same. Here, I just drew it up. This is a simple 15 degree perception with a right pivot. This drawing is how I aim using the visual perceptions of spheres in three dimensions on a regulation table, based on CTE Pro One. There is nothing to guess at here, no parts left to the imagination. Just execute exactly as described. Of course there is more to the system, and you can find that information on Stan's DVD which provides an encyclopedia of instruction, demonstrations and examples.

For clarity, it says:

1) Line up CTEL and C
2) Look at fixed cueball, ticks 0 and 180
3) move straight into CCB with tip 1/2 to the right
4) pivot tip to CCB
5) SHOOT

Is there math? Of course. But to draw up the math behind lining up CTEL/C visually is not simple, and really unnecessary. Everything else past that (CCB, etc) is easy to apply math to.

ny9zU04l.jpg
 
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Gerry Williams said:
No - but I have posted a boatload of videos showing it in action - not a drawing on paper and not a bunch of 1 foot straight in shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLz_rIMJy8g&list=UU8rNnGNPTLwihnszKS4Zg2g
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I'm not picking a fight here. Merely posting a video of CTE in action doesn't prove anything. Perhaps using CTE has corrected your stance, or enhanced your preshot routine. There are other things in the system that could have improved your play.

If this is about videos, I could post Mike Sigel's 150 and out from the US Open 14.1 championships. Or Harriman or Schmidt running 200+, and in none of the videos do I see any pivots going on.

Sometimes, the best thing to do when someone is trying to pick a fight with you, is to turn your back on them, and allow them to remain ignorant. I understand WHY some people need to see the mathematical explanations. I'm a math and stats graduate. However, if someone isn't "getting it", sometimes it's just better to call it a day, and let them revel in their own beliefs. No harm in that.
 
Good work there.

Are you saying, by the '15 degree perception', that this is a 15 degree cut?

I have another question, but I want to understand that point first.

mohrt said:
Sure I can say the same. Here, I just drew it up.
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p.s. Did you mean 'left' pivot?
 
You won't see any pivots in my game either.

And you know how ridiculous your statement was I hope. The video proves everything unless one chooses to believe I am being deceitful. I guess some feel that CTE doesn't subscribe to the adage that seeing is believing.

I am an Electrical Engineer so I have a math background as well Shawn.

Shawn Armstrong said:
I'm not picking a fight here. Merely posting a video of CTE in action doesn't prove anything. Perhaps using CTE has corrected your stance, or enhanced your preshot routine. There are other things in the system that could have improved your play.

If this is about videos, I could post Mike Sigel's 150 and out from the US Open 14.1 championships. Or Harriman or Schmidt running 200+, and in none of the videos do I see any pivots going on.

Sometimes, the best thing to do when someone is trying to pick a fight with you, is to turn your back on them, and allow them to remain ignorant. I understand WHY some people need to see the mathematical explanations. I'm a math and stats graduate. However, if someone isn't "getting it", sometimes it's just better to call it a day, and let them revel in their own beliefs. No harm in that.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, thanks.

What does the '15 degree perception' mean?

And, please don't just tell me to go off and get the DVDs, and study them... I'd actually like to have an exchange here, where a couple of you guys lead me somewhere.

Without resorting to name-calling, if I might add...
 
Gerry Williams said:
And you know how ridiculous your statement was I hope...I am an Electrical Engineer so I have a math background as well Shawn.
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Want to whip out dicks and measure, Gerry? You're becoming one of the condescending brigade. I have made no ridiculous statements. You've just chosen to assess them in that manner, for you. Stick with JB. He's your kind of guy.
 
swest said:
Good work there.

Are you saying, by the '15 degree perception', that this is a 15 degree cut?

I have another question, but I want to understand that point first.



p.s. Did you mean 'left' pivot?
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Not necessarily a 15 degree cut. A 15 degree perception covers a range of shots from straight-in up to roughly 30 degrees. I say roughly because the choice is not strictly angle based, but that is a round about way to describe it. You learn through recall what kind of shot goes from 15 to 30 to 45 to 60.

And a right pivot is moving the cue tip right-to-left.
 
I will try. A 15 or 30 degree perception allow you to aim the edge of the cue ball at a certain point on the object ball. The points are on the 1/4's and are listed as A, B & C. Combine that with a perception of Center cue ball to edge of OB and that takes you to the shot line (actually 1/2 tip pivot away).

Here is a diagram I made up. Hope it helps..


swest said:
Ok, thanks.

What does the '15 degree perception' mean?

And, please don't just tell me to go off and get the DVDs, and study them... I'd actually like to have an exchange here, where a couple of you guys lead me somewhere.

Without resorting to name-calling, if I might add...
Click to expand...
 

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swest said:
Ok, thanks.

What does the '15 degree perception' mean?

And, please don't just tell me to go off and get the DVDs, and study them... I'd actually like to have an exchange here, where a couple of you guys lead me somewhere.

Without resorting to name-calling, if I might add...
Click to expand...

A 15 degree perception is lining up CTEL/A for a left cut, and CTEL/C for a right cut. These perceptions are combined with a left or right pivot/sweep. And I'll tell you now, anyone serious about mastering this system is going to have a tough time without DVD. It was instrumental for me to get going with it, and it is such a modest investment for the value.
 
Grow up man - no need to act like a child.

If you want to make sweeping statements about a topic you know nothing about then be prepared to have them challenged.

When I run 15 consecutive racks against the ghost using Pro One and you say 'Video doesn't Prove Pro One Works' - that seems a little silly to me.

As for JB, don't know your past but I have had no issue with him on here and he has never asked me to measure anything.

Stay classy.

Shawn Armstrong said:
Want to whip out dicks and measure, Gerry? You're becoming one of the condescending brigade. I have made no ridiculous statements. You've just chosen to assess them in that manner, for you. Stick with JB. He's your kind of guy.
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Shawn Armstrong said:
Want to whip out dicks and measure, Gerry? You're becoming one of the condescending brigade. I have made no ridiculous statements. You've just chosen to assess them in that manner, for you. Stick with JB. He's your kind of guy.
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Hey Shawn, Gerry is one of the good guys on this topic. This comment was uncalled for.
 
mohrt said:
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And I'll tell you now, anyone serious about mastering this system is going to have a tough time without DVD. It was instrumental for me to get going with it, and it is such a modest investment for the value.
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I understand this. Really. I would say the same thing, about anything of this sort, i.e., please go to the source for the best information. I get that.

Nevertheless, please continue on with me for a little while. I promise to be teachable.

My next question is, why was the 1/2 tip chosen? And, probably just as importantly, how do I know where you want my bridge hand?
 
bwally said:
Hey Shawn, Gerry is one of the good guys on this topic. This comment was uncalled for.
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When he called my comments "ridiculous", I guess he was being flattering? Hmm....don't think so. If you disagree, say so. But "ridiculous" has a synonym - "idiotic". Look it up, if you care to.
 
swest said:
I understand this. Really. I would say the same thing, about anything of this sort, i.e., please go to the source for the best information. I get that.

Nevertheless, please continue on with me for a little while. I promise to be teachable.

My next question is, why was the 1/2 tip chosen? And, probably just as importantly, how do I know where you want my bridge hand?
Click to expand...

Try this link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwI_62Npos
 
I'm going to lay this out there right now, for those that piss and moan upon the idea of having to purchase a DVD to learn an aiming system. Stan has put countless hours of time, money, heart and soul to bring this information to the masses. Without his effort, NO ONE would even have the slightest clue about this information aside from the lucky few that had taken lessons directly from Hal or Stan.

The reason all the information isn't laid out in plain site on a web site or here on AZB is simple. Stan wants to at least break even on his efforts to put this information out there. Also, just about anywhere you see an attempt to lay it all out is usually riddled with errors and misconceptions (ie. Dr. Dave website.) There really is no better gain of knowledge of this information than directly from the source in the form of a DVD, and a very modest price for the value. The resale value is also quite good here, if you decide it is not for you. So you can gain nuggets of information here and there, and you can ask all the questions you want directly to Stan and you will always get enthusiastic help. Most of the CTE users here on AZB are also usually quite accommodating.
 
And mohrt, my questions are sincere. I'm not purposefully trying to back you into a tight spot, so that I can say, "See, SEE! I told you!!!"

Our exchange may get to a point where you feel like throwing up your hands, and I feel like saying, "but, but, how do you...???? (fill in the blank)"

But please be patient until we get there... :thumbup:
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
When he called my comments "ridiculous", I guess he was being flattering? Hmm....don't think so. If you disagree, say so. But "ridiculous" has a synonym - "idiotic". Look it up, if you care to.
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So your comment about "whipping your dicks out" in a public forum is ok? Not sure what world you live in but in mine that type of comment is inappropriate and unacceptable. The fact that you would post that is "ridiculous".
 
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