English Questions - Ball Control not Language ;)

Zphix

Zphix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sup everybody,

I was playing my friend's dad last night and he absolutely destroyed me - 6 matches all races to 5. I had a few break and runs, and he was unforgiving at my minor mistakes! But, he gave me the best critiques while playing so I could get proper shape on the next ball.

He told me I'm an excellent shot and far above an APA 6, and probably will be a lot higher when I learn to properly get shape on balls.

Anyway, my questions (some true or false):
1) Side spin does not affect CB direction after hitting the OB, right? but,
2) Reverse and running English does affect cue ball direction after contact with the OB, right?
3) How does reverse (bottom) and running (top) English affect side-spin kick off the rail? Like so:

dPnXdZh.png
[/IMG]

How would high-right, and low-right affect the CB direction after making contact with the OB?

Also, I know where I want to be on my next shot - I just don't have the CB control down enough to exactly get there. I'm a great shot but not a great position player because I just don't know how the ball is going to react with different kinds of English, or the affect that speed has on English.

4) How do you hit the ball faster, or fuller without hitting it harder? Is it a difference in stroke or what?

-Richard
 
Zphix said:
Sup everybody,

I was playing my friend's dad last night and he absolutely destroyed me - 6 matches all races to 5. I had a few break and runs, and he was unforgiving at my minor mistakes! But, he gave me the best critiques while playing so I could get proper shape on the next ball.

He told me I'm an excellent shot and far above an APA 6, and probably will be a lot higher when I learn to properly get shape on balls.

Anyway, my questions (some true or false):
1) Side spin does not affect CB direction after hitting the OB, right? but,
2) Reverse and running English does affect cue ball direction after contact with the OB, right?
3) How does reverse (bottom) and running (top) English affect side-spin kick off the rail? Like so:

dPnXdZh.png
[/IMG]

How would high-right, and low-right affect the CB direction after making contact with the OB?

Also, I know where I want to be on my next shot - I just don't have the CB control down enough to exactly get there. I'm a great shot but not a great position player because I just don't know how the ball is going to react with different kinds of English, or the affect that speed has on English.

4) How do you hit the ball faster, or fuller without hitting it harder? Is it a difference in stroke or what?

-Richard
Click to expand...
You are asking some great questions. The best answer I can give you is this. You need to be at the table shooting these shots. There is nothing I can tell you on this forum that will be of any value compared to what you can learn on your own at the table. Set up some shots and experiment with english. Until you experience the path the CB will take after hitting the OB, you will have a hard time putting patterns together that will enable you to play proper shape and run out. A practice drill that I sometimes use is to break and take ball in hand to try and run out. While doing this I will take a piece of chalk and place it on a spot that I want my CB to go for the next shot. If I can get to within a half-diamond of the chalk, then I remove it and move on to the next shot. If I didn't come close enough, I will set up the shot as it was and try again. If I can't make it after three tries, then I remove all the other balls and work on that shot until I can't miss it. While practicing, be hard on yourself, but be honest and fair as well.
 
Big C,

Thanks for the quick reply =P

I actually do try to practice shape and position when I practice but sometimes I feel like I'm learning blindly because I'm not exactly sure how what affects what.

So, say I'm in the position above - and I determine that cutting with inside English should take me to position A but it doesn't - then I try the same shot with different English (low inside, high inside) and I still don't get into the position, a few things flash through my head:

-Is it my stroke?
-Did I not hit the cue ball exactly where I wanted?
-Did I hit too hard?

For confirmation reasons - I'd rather practice a shot like this with English that's been confirmed by players who are better than I am so I know I can narrow down my imperfections.

So, if I knew that high inside would take me to the position I outlined above, and I hit with high inside but was off - I'd be able to narrow down the problem I'm having in playing position.

I'm more than capable of learning by practicing "blindly" as I said but it would be a lot faster for me if I went in with an idea of what was supposed to happen.

But, I'll be practicing position the way you stated =P

-Richard
 
1) true...unless you have top or bottom spin along with sidespin.
2) not true...reverse and running english are sidespin...so if you have top or bottom with side, it will affect the path of the CB. Only top and bottom spin make the CB curve...not sidespin (unless you elevate the cuestick = masse').
3) reverse and running english have nothing to do with top or bottom, and everything to do with right or left. Running english accelerates off the cushion...reverse checks up the speed, and comes off at a very different angle.
4) the big difference is letting the cuestick speed and timing create the stroke speed...as opposed to tight grip and muscles driving the stick through the ball.

Like another poster said, trial and error is how you get your questions answered, on how sidespin works. When close up to the OB you may not have to adjust your aim much...when 3-4 diamonds (or more) apart, you will have to somehow adjust where you aim on the OB to compensate for squirt.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Zphix said:
Anyway, my questions (some true or false):
1) Side spin does not affect CB direction after hitting the OB, right? but,
2) Reverse and running English does affect cue ball direction after contact with the OB, right?
3) How does reverse (bottom) and running (top) English affect side-spin kick off the rail? Like so:



How would high-right, and low-right affect the CB direction after making contact with the OB?

Also, I know where I want to be on my next shot - I just don't have the CB control down enough to exactly get there. I'm a great shot but not a great position player because I just don't know how the ball is going to react with different kinds of English, or the affect that speed has on English.

4) How do you hit the ball faster, or fuller without hitting it harder? Is it a difference in stroke or what?

-Richard
Click to expand...
 
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Zphix said:
1) Side spin does not affect CB direction after hitting the OB, right? Correct.
2) Reverse and running English does affect cue ball direction after contact with the OB, right? Incorrect.
3) How does reverse (bottom) and running (top) English affect side-spin kick off the rail? Reverse and running english are not the same as bottom and top.
4) How do you hit the ball faster, or fuller without hitting it harder? Is it a difference in stroke or what? Generally, the speed of your stroke.
Click to expand...

Side spin, be it running or reverse, does not alter the path of the cue ball after contact with an object ball. Only follow (top) or draw (bottom) will do so. Side spin alters the path of the cue ball off of a rail or rails.
 
Thanks the two Scotts ;)

Sorry for mixing up the terminology as well.

Building on what you guys have said:
1) Running English will lessen the natural angle off the rail, correct? While reverse English will steepen the natural angle off the rail also? (i.e. if you hit the OB with no English then it rebounds off the rail)
2) How does follow and draw affect reverse/running English? (i.e what would happen to the reverse English if you add topspin/bottom spin?)

Thanks again gentleman,

-Richard
 
You will be doing yourself a huge favor by clicking on the link in post #2 and spending a great deal of time on that site. The info there is objective and virtually 100% accurate whereas the info here can sometimes be subjective and (at times) highly inaccurate. Plus video accompanied by detailed verbal instruction will make everything much clearer much more quickly.

Edit. I'm a bit baffled because after posting this I took a look at some of your previous posts in which you said you've watched all of Dr Daves videos. In that case the questions you asked here should already be answered. If they weren't then I'd suggest watching them a few more times.
 
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Zphix said:
Thanks the two Scotts ;)

Sorry for mixing up the terminology as well.

Building on what you guys have said:
1) Running English will lessen the natural angle off the rail, correct? While reverse English will steepen the natural angle off the rail also? (i.e. if you hit the OB with no English then it rebounds off the rail)
2) How does follow and draw affect reverse/running English? (i.e what would happen to the reverse English if you add topspin/bottom spin?)

Thanks again gentleman,

-Richard
Click to expand...

You have that reversed. Running english (can also be called outside) will lengthen out the angle and speed up the cueball off the rail. Reverse will do the opposite. I suggest you read some basic pool books, a great one is Byrnes Standard Book of Pool and Billiards, he has some nice diagrams of how spin works. Maybe learn a bit from some players.

Top/bottom with sidespin is a whole other animal and leads into some neat shots that look impossible to a beginner. The cueball basically tried to head in two directions at once and does some neat things when the two forces even out or one takes over for the other, like a masse for example, or really messing with the angle of the shot to go around a ball or when kicking.

You should learn pretty quickly with 10 minutes of shooting the same shot with different spin to see how the cueball reacts. If you practice that, don't see how you can get confused about what happens unless you set up a random shot each time and don't watch what happens. Then it will take a year or so to get the aiming with spin and some speed control down.
 
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