Should I first learn to jump or kick?

Halter said:
As I begin to play better players, I find myself regularly hooked with their good safety play. While I'm sure the purist pool player believes learning to kick properly is a required skill for any legitimate pool player, I can't help but wonder if I should just learn to jump. It seems it would be easier to jump balls than learn the geometry behind one, two, and three cushion kicks.

I plan to become proficient at both, but which one would you recommend starting with? Giving up ball in hand is killing me.

Thank you.
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Jumping with a full cue, properly, takes just about as much skill as kicking.

If you're talking about jumping with a jump cue, my son when he was 12 got his first jump cue from his junior league. He was able to jump almost a full ball on his second try. Using a jump cue, especially those trick ones that allow you to jump a ball an inch away from the cueball, are toys for those that can't play properly. I see players use jump cues to get out of shots where they hook themselves trying to play position. What a loss for the purity of the game. It's what the French must feel like when they see McDonalds food.

I still can't fathom why WPA and others allow jump cues in professional pool.

Learn to kick, learn to jump with your playing cue. Then you can say you are a pool player. If you want to be like the guy that cheated on his test then bragged that he scored a 100, get a jump cue.
 
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Absolutely learn to kick first. I hardly ever find myself jumping balls. Once you are an efficient kicker you will know when jumping is your best option. I would say that when my opponent is jumping a ball I'm already grabbing my cue and getting ready to have an open shot after he misses. More times then not, if I'm kicking out to hit a ball I have a pretty good chance of controlling my cue ball and object ball to get good separation and sometimes hook them back up. So much more control with a kick then jump. I'm not a fan of jumping and would say most pros are also but if there is no rule against it then they all have to learn how to be good with one. JMO
 
ctran said:
jump shot is killing the game. get on with kicking and you will learn many shots, movement and master the table.

I started jumping quite well, but then I did not see any fun in it, I quit jumping for 1 year and got really solid with kicking and kicking safely and even pocket with kicking. the needs of performing in tourneys made me get back to jumping and after a few months using the jump cue. I learned that my game was no improved but my kicking and even banking got declined remarkably.

Now I will never jump balls again.
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You are probably talking about jumping with the jump cues. Jumping a ball, with your playing cue, is as much of a skill shot as anything else.

Don't lump in just jumping with jumping using a short cue. I don't think jump cues are anything but a novelty that allow you to do what should be impossible with a regular cue. It gives way too much power to the unskilled and takes away from bad position and good safety play.
 
I definitely say kicking - learning one, two, and three rail kicks is crucial and opens up your mind to the game in new ways. If I were you I'd also squeeze bank shots into my practice as well.

They're important for a different reason though - when you start to consistently play good players, when they lock you up in a safety, they usually have the CB pressed tightly against an OB so you can't even perform a legal jump and the skill becomes almost obsolete unless you get off position on your own.

While even when locking up the CB onto the OB you're almost always left a kick of some sort - whether it be a one rail, two rail, or three rail, or masse kick (which I've started working on lately).

Kicks and banks are essential parts of my game ;)
 
Kicking

Realistically, if you can't see your object ball, 9 out of 10 times (or more) the kick is the right shot. Jumping is the best choice under a very narrow set of conditions (the right distances from the blocker balls, enough room for the cue ball to stop bouncing before it gets to a rail, etc. etc.) Also, learning the diamonds and angles will improve your banking and your position play as well as your ability to hit, play safe, or make an obstructed ball. If you're only going to focus on one, learn to kick.

A jump shot is a specialty shot that should be used very rarely. Kicks are a fundamental skill you must have to play well. Learn to kick ASAP and work on your jumping when all of your fundamentals are in line. You may never need to jump if you kick well enough - Efren doesn't.
 
Another thing about kicking, I had this come up this past weekend during a tournament. I drew back for position on the ball on the rail under another ball, but put a bit too much stroke on the hit and ended up straightening the angle up too much and drew back behind a ball. No way to jump. I did a 3 rail kick that hit good enough to *almost* make the ball, it ended up hanging up in the pocket.

Was one of the best shots I ever played, there was maybe a 1/16th - 1/8th inch area I needed to hit or I'd miss the ball totally one one side or hit the ball above it on the other side as the two balls were exactly even with each other.

I you don't know how to judge the angles and rails, you're screwed. And BTW, no "system" I used there, I use the "eyeball" system for kicks.

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Learn to kick first.your comment about geometry of rails is an important point. Learning the rails it takes to kick something helps you immensely when you combine that knowledge to know how to play position by those same position (kick) routes. When you do start to practice jumping I'd just use your shaft with the dart throwing motion. I use the stinger jump cue.
 
Kick. The jump is sometimes the only (almost) shot. But the kick is often a shot. "Making" a jump and either potting the ball or looking good by getting a "clean" hit on it will make you look good but kicking (which is actually a really bad way to describe the shot) makes you a better player every time you play the shot if you play it well (regardless of whether or not you carry on or give the table to your devil friend).
 
If you were proficient with both shots, you would find yourself kicking at least 5 times for every time you jumped a ball. Watch the pros and see how often they kick (all the time) verses how often they jump (not that often) if you want to see for yourself. The kick is a more useful shot you will use much more often, so it would be the more important to learn and get proficient at. It takes time a bit more time to learn though, although one rail kicks are pretty easy, and two rail kicks are not too all that hard to learn.

On the flip side learning to jump is really easy and should only take a few hours of dedicated practice so an argument could be made to practice that first since it could be mastered first and put into your bag of weapons right away even though it isn't used nearly as often.

Most places will not let you practice jump shots though because it is hard on the cloth so unless you have your own table or can find one whose owner is ok with letting you practice them, the only jump shot practice you may get is in actual game situations. Kicks on the other hand can be practiced any time and any where. I think you should focus a whole lot more on kick shots because they are more important and will be used much more often and you can practice them any time you want. Maybe practice jumps when you are on a table that allows it, and practice kicks the rest of the time.
 
Once you learn both, you'll most likely find you end up kicking more often, if not to open the safety options as well as making balls. It's a little harder to achieve the precision safeties with jumps, but it's an effective way of making balls. My advice, practice both. Set aside a little time each practice session for both. Run your usual practice routine, get your stroke down and steady. Dial in your aim, then at some point later in the session work on kicks/jumps. Finish by going back to your normal routine, rather than ending with kicks and jumps. Also, don't forget to work on your banks. Understanding kicks and banks goes hand in hand.
 
oldschool2791 said:
Learn to kick first.your comment about geometry of rails is an important point. Learning the rails it takes to kick something helps you immensely when you combine that knowledge to know how to play position by those same position (kick) routes. When you do start to practice jumping I'd just use your shaft with the dart throwing motion. I use the stinger jump cue.
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It's illegal to use the shaft to jump with. Learning to jump with your full cue is the way to go. Or with a jump cue, although my views on that is that a jump cue makes jumping way too easy to be allowed. There needs to be stricter size and weight limits to cues.
 
Kicking,Kicking,Kicking

Hi There,

First of all, I think the jump will begin to fade as time passes.

So get your kicking skills ready as they will B used in more and more
events.

Just my 2 cents.

Noel
 
CreeDo said:
A lot of pool purists hate the jump cue so they will say
"learn to kick and throw your jump cue off a bridge".
They grew up having to kick because jump cues were not in popular use.

Now they resent that someone with 2 years of jump experience can give up ball in hand
less often than someone with 20 years of kicking experience.

Jumping is just easier -
Easier to get a hit, easier to make the ball, easier to control the cue ball after.

If you want to stop giving up ball in hand, so you have the opportunity
to return to the table and practice your other pool skills
(vs. returning to the chair and waiting to get the rack)
then learn to jump first.

Kicking takes a lifetime to master, nobody is "done learning how to kick".
So it's just common sense - a beginner should learn the easier
skill with the bigger reward first, then move on to the tougher skill.
Do what's best for your pool game, not what makes traditionalists happy.
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That post nailed it. If the formats you compete in allow jump cues learn to use it. If you can jump and make the ball on easier shots and hit a general area on longer jumps it's going to be a huge edge.

Once you get competent jumping start spending more time on your kicks. Kicking is a huge part of high level pool. Strong players focus on safeties that get the cue too close to an object ball to jump over.
 
Spend one day learning to jump, the rest of your life learning to kick!

Sometimes all the easier kicks are blocked but you will have a wide open jump. But knowing how to kick is far more important.


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Not sure if this has been mentioned but in some tourneys jumping isn't allowed, but kicking is always allowed..... I would learn at least the basics of kicking first and then work on jumping. Being proficient at both is ideal at higher levels of play but alot of times you are too close to a ball to jump it or jumping isn't allowed so imo kicking is the better skill to have even though it will take longer to master. Just my two cents
 
Jump for Dough and Kick for Dough...

Kicking is going to be more useful.
 
Lynch said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned but in some tourneys jumping isn't allowed, but kicking is always allowed..... I would learn at least the basics of kicking first and then work on jumping. Being proficient at both is ideal at higher levels of play but alot of times you are too close to a ball to jump it or jumping isn't allowed so imo kicking is the better skill to have even though it will take longer to master. Just my two cents
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I not sure about jumps not being allowed in some tournaments. Never heard of that. I think you meant jump CUES not being allowed. Pretty sure you can jump with regular playing cue anytime. Unless your room doesn't allow it. But in that case, masse's wouldn't or shouldn't be allowed either. I really don't see the "purity" of the the game being ruined. As another poster said, when a jump shot is attempted, most of the time the position play after the shot is luck. If the purist don't like jumps because it ruined the safety they just played, I say learn to play a better safety! Purposely take the jump away from them. I really don't see the need to make them illegal. 80% of the time, you will be right back at the table.....either after the jump, or after their first shot after the jump. Much harder to play position when playing a jump. Sometimes luck is involved. But not even a pro will win a tournament without getting some rolls and getting lucky sometimes.
 
I've played in tourneys before (rare) where jumps aren't allowed but what is more common is sometimes in league play jumping isn't allowed. I'm from Western ND and the league I played out of there wouldn't even allow jumping a sliver of an impeding object ball with a full cue.......It's even like that in ND's state singles/team tourneys. I don't personally agree with it but I guess it is what it is. I can understand people banning jump cues but it bothers me when you aren't allowed to jump with a full cue. It does actually take some skill to get over even a third of a ball with a full cue, compared to using a shorty to get over a full ball.....With a short jump cue it's very easy to get a hit on a ball, but bad things tend to happen often lol...
 
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