8 Ball question

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poolgoddess

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is my question about an aspect in the game of 8 Ball. If you have the strips, and
your shot at a strip, contacts a strip and a solid at the same time, is it a illegal shot?
Thanks for your help.
 
Yes, it's legal. As in baseball, "tie goes to the runner", ie offensive player.
 
It is a foul if the wrong ball is contacted first, but it is not a foul if both are contacted at the same time, in any rules I've ever seen.
 
poolgoddess said:
Here is my question about an aspect in the game of 8 Ball. If you have the strips, and
your shot at a strip, contacts a strip and a solid at the same time, is it a illegal shot?
Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

Ill start by saying maybe. What I mean is it depends on the league you are in. So many times when I'm asked to watch a close hit, the shooter purposely hits it so hard, you can't tell which one they hit first. When I'm asked to watch one, I tell the shooter that if the hit looks simultaneous, I will call a foul. Here's why. If you hit both balls at the same time, you DIDNT hit yours first. First means first....no matter how you try to justify it. If someone doesn't like it, dont ask me to watch it again. Not being an a** about it, thats just how I see it.
 
In the unlikely event that would actually happen I believe that simultaneous contact would be legal (depending on the rule you're playing under). However, contact on both balls at the very same moment would be a very, very rare event. I think if thought your shot was gonna be that close you'd probably select a different shot. Anything to close to call is likely a foul. For anything that close get a referee
 
The only problem with 'tie goes to the runner' is that 'rarely' are both balls actually hit at the same time. More often than not, one is hit before the other. In that case, it's usually easy to prove which ball was hit first by observing the speed/path the cue ball takes after contacting the cluster.

Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett have videos that demonstrate how to detect fouls that typically occur with these types of close hits.
 
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buckshotshoey said:
Ill start by saying maybe. What I mean is it depends on the league you are in. So many times when I'm asked to watch a close hit, the shooter purposely hits it so hard, you can't tell which one they hit first. When I'm asked to watch one, I tell the shooter that if the hit looks simultaneous, I will call a foul. Here's why. If you hit both balls at the same time, you DIDNT hit yours first. First means first....no matter how you try to justify it. If someone doesn't like it, dont ask me to watch it again. Not being an a** about it, thats just how I see it.
Click to expand...

Except that most rules define the foul, not the legal shot. So, in the World Rules it says:


6.2 Wrong Ball First
In those games which require the first object ball struck to be a particular ball or one of a group of balls, it is a foul for the cue ball to first contact any other ball.
Click to expand...
 
I was talking to a referee about this. There really is no such thing as a split hit, it's infinitesimally impossible to hit 2 at the same time.

That being said, he indicated that he would almost always call the shot in favor of the shooter unless:

THE SHOOTER WAS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE
 
supergreenman said:
I was talking to a referee about this. There really is no such thing as a split hit, it's infinitesimally impossible to hit 2 at the same time.

That being said, he indicated that he would almost always call the shot in favor of the shooter unless:

THE SHOOTER WAS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE
Click to expand...

Exactly! The reason I tell the shooter if it looked simultaneous I call a foul, is because of past experience. It makes the shooter think hard about the shot they are attempting. Too many times they will hit the shot 3 or 4 times harder then necessary. ..just so its impossible for the human eye to see the hit. This is cheating in my book. Yes, I do give the call to the shooter in most cases, APA rules do state if the third party cannot determine which one was hit first the call goes to the shooter, but I have to be fair to the guy in the chair also.
Hey.....that's good! I'm a poet now!
 
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8 Ball Question

Thanks to everyone for their reply. Looks like the jury is about 50/50. That said, whether
you are playing with friend, or someone you don't know, one should establish in this
instant, if the shot be legal, or illegal, before play is started.
 
poolgoddess said:
Here is my question about an aspect in the game of 8 Ball. If you have the strips, and
your shot at a strip, contacts a strip and a solid at the same time, is it a illegal shot?
Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

BCAPL....split hits go to the shooter.
 
You can usually determine which ball was hit first by the direction the CB takes after the hit. See Dr. Dave videos.

Explaining it during a match is another story.
 
poolgoddess said:
Thanks to everyone for their reply. Looks like the jury is about 50/50.
Click to expand...

No, I'm quite sure everybody has been saying that if it is impossible to determine by human eye, or by the path of the balls, which one was contacted first... no foul.

I practice of course, if there is no referee, this argument could go on forever.

In which case I would still give it to the shooter.
 
buckshotshoey said:
Ill start by saying maybe. What I mean is it depends on the league you are in. So many times when I'm asked to watch a close hit, the shooter purposely hits it so hard, you can't tell which one they hit first. When I'm asked to watch one, I tell the shooter that if the hit looks simultaneous, I will call a foul. Here's why. If you hit both balls at the same time, you DIDNT hit yours first. First means first....no matter how you try to justify it. If someone doesn't like it, dont ask me to watch it again. Not being an a** about it, thats just how I see it.
Click to expand...

It may be how you see it, but the world rules say a split hit (both hit at the same time or close enough that a ref can't call), is a good hit. There are many players that play the same way you do, unless it's clearly hitting the other ball first, it's a foul.

In "real" rules, it's a good hit.
 
buckshotshoey said:
Exactly! The reason I tell the shooter if it looked simultaneous I call a foul, is because of past experience. It makes the shooter think hard about the shot they are attempting. Too many times they will hit the shot 3 or 4 times harder then necessary. ..just so its impossible for the human eye to see the hit. This is cheating in my book. Yes, I do give the call to the shooter in most cases, APA rules do state if the third party cannot determine which one was hit first the call goes to the shooter, but I have to be fair to the guy in the chair also.
Hey.....that's good! I'm a poet now!
Click to expand...


I don't get you.
 
Luxury said:
I don't get you.
Click to expand...

Sorry. Fat thumbs...small phone. What I meant was some shooters know they are going to foul if they are to make the ball. So they hit it at 300 mph so you can't possibly see the hit. If you can't say for sure which ball was hit first, the call goes to the shooter. Obviously this is unethical if not flat out cheating.
 
buckshotshoey said:
Sorry. Fat thumbs...small phone. What I meant was some shooters know they are going to foul if they are to make the ball. So they hit it at 300 mph so you can't possibly see the hit. If you can't say for sure which ball was hit first, the call goes to the shooter. Obviously this is unethical if not flat out cheating.
Click to expand...


I think your logic is flawed.
 
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