What are the factors for calculating Earls odds?

(((Satori)))

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I'm talking about Earls odds for breaking and running 10 racks in a row from the start of the set in a tournament.

To figure the odds do I simply figure out the odds of him breaking and running one game and then use that figure in a 10 game parlay? Or are there other factors that need to be included?
 
I'm talking about Earls odds for breaking and running 10 racks in a row from the start of the set in a tournament.

To figure the odds do I simply figure out the odds of him breaking and running one game and then use that figure in a 10 game parlay? Or are there other factors that need to be included?

Hit up atlarge and get the highest B&R% he has for B&Rs playing 9ball... I think Shane may have been over 50% in several events.... For the million dollar challenge they had to have calculated it at 40%.....
 
I'm talking about Earls odds for breaking and running 10 racks in a row from the start of the set in a tournament.

To figure the odds do I simply figure out the odds of him breaking and running one game and then use that figure in a 10 game parlay? Or are there other factors that need to be included?
There are lots of other factors to consider. See the June article in http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996.pdf which was prompted by Earl's run.
 
Hit up atlarge and get the highest B&R% he has for B&Rs playing 9ball... I think Shane may have been over 50% in several events.... For the million dollar challenge they had to have calculated it at 40%.....

For the million dollar challenge, the matches were to 15. If you break and run three racks from the flip and then miss, you will get another chance to run 10 unless your opponent runs out. Following up on the article I posted, if in fact it were 40% for a run-out, the chance would be 1/10000 from the first flip. But it's more likely than that because Earl played more than one match and the matches were to 15.

Whether 40% is the right number is a good question. Look at the Accu-stats statistics from the 1980s. The newsletters with great steaming piles of stats used to be on AZB but I can't find them now. The originals are here: http://www.sfbilliards.com/accustats/index.html
 
For the million dollar challenge, the matches were to 15. If you break and run three racks from the flip and then miss, you will get another chance to run 10 unless your opponent runs out. Following up on the article I posted, if in fact it were 40% for a run-out, the chance would be 1/10000 from the first flip. But it's more likely than that because Earl played more than one match and the matches were to 15.

Whether 40% is the right number is a good question. Look at the Accu-stats statistics from the 1980s. The newsletters with great steaming piles of stats used to be on AZB but I can't find them now. The originals are here: http://www.sfbilliards.com/accustats/index.html

Great! I would have loved to have this article back when CJ and his minions were telling me I was clueless when analyzing Earl's Million Dollar run. :angry::wink:

Anybody trying to predict the outcome of an event by using statistics has only the existing data to work with. This data may be only a small sample, it may be incomplete and inconsistent, or it may even have been recorded improperly.

However, assuming there actually was a very large data set gathered over numerous tournaments over a long period of time, it would be reasonable to use the B&R average to make this prediction. Given that the stated odds of running ten racks of 9-ball in a row at that time were 7.8 million to 1, the statisticians would have had to use the odds of an average pro having a B&R on any single rack to be approximately 20.45%. IOW... 1/.2045^10 = 7,800,000 to 1.

Since 20% it is not far off what we might assume as an average long term B&R average among all pros, this estimate that the chance that some random pro will run 10 racks in a row seems to be good at first glance. But there are many other things to consider.

First, the race was to eleven, not ten. A player could run either the first ten games of the set or the last ten and still achieve the 10 pack. That lowers the odds substantially. Earl ended up running 11 in a row. Using the same B&R percentage that was used for calculating the chances of 10 in a row, the chances of anybody running 11 in a single trial would now be 38 million to 1!

Second, it wasn't the only match that would be played. The million dollar bonus was to be awarded to any player that ran a 10 pack, not just Earl. Many players, numerous matches, and several tournaments worth of play means that the chances are much greater than if a single attempt was made.

Third, the statisticians weren't just using Earl's B&R average. If they had, the odds would have been much lower, because Earl's B&R would probably have been closer to 25% at the time.

Fourth, the stats were calculated with the a priori assumption that B&R averages would be relatively static. They had no way to know that many players such as Earl would attempt to develop specific strategies that increased their chances of running the 10 racks. Earl, for one, was said to have done this ahead of the tour.

Fifth, Earl was going for the big brass ring. There would be no safety play, that would just ruin the run. He had to pull out all stops, even if it reduced his chances of winning the actual tournament. Under these conditions, every shot suddenly looks makable in some way, dramatically increasing your chances of pulling it off. It was under just such conditions that SVB supposedly ran 14 racks of 10-ball in practice. The odds against that happening during actual tournament play are... well, too great to imagine.

I hope Bob's article puts the notion to rest that Earl faced astronomical odds in his quest for the million bucks. They were certainly not even money, but so much better than 7.8 million to one that continuing to cite that figure as a measure of the magnitude of his accomplishment is humorous at the least.
 
... First, the race was to eleven, not ten. ...
No. In the tournament where Earl ran 10 (or 11) racks, the races were to 15.

In a match to 11, if you fail to run out the first rack you break, you will get another chance to run 10 only if you won the flip. In a match to 15, if either misses with a score of 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4, he will probably get another chance to run 10. That improves the odds by roughly a factor of 5.

Which brings up a couple of questions. Would a runout from the opponent's break count as the first rack of a run? Did the insurance policy mention anything about nines on the break?
 
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For the million dollar challenge, the matches were to 15. If you break and run three racks from the flip and then miss, you will get another chance to run 10 unless your opponent runs out. Following up on the article I posted, if in fact it were 40% for a run-out, the chance would be 1/10000 from the first flip. But it's more likely than that because Earl played more than one match and the matches were to 15.

I was not aware that they were racing to 15, I thought it was to 11. So yeah, much better odds.
 
Bob,

Thank you for posting that.

I came across this article which quoted Earl stating the odds were 1 in 7.8 million. I wonder what data the actuaries used in their modeling, as it was a major factor for the insurers to determine the pricing of the policy.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1996/may/31/million-dollar-jackpot-wont-affect-pool-pro/

There are lots of other factors to consider. See the June article in http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996.pdf which was prompted by Earl's run.
 
Rack em down 9-ball

I'm talking about Earls odds for breaking and running 10 racks in a row from the start of the set in a tournament.

Racking your own and or having a friend rack is about the same end result for nine ball, Earl played great that day - I was there - I only wish the game would have been ten ball. So as to eliminate any redundancies associated with the corner ball problem. I had no idea back then that the nine ball break shot could become a trick shot ( making the corner ball every time - if racked properly).
 
... I came across this article which quoted Earl stating the odds were 1 in 7.8 million. I wonder what data the actuaries used in their modeling, as it was a major factor for the insurers to determine the pricing of the policy. ...
I think whoever was calculating the odds was ignorant or confused or the policy did not get written according to the assumptions used in the calculation.

Here's another factor: suppose there are 50 players in the tournament. There will be roughly 100 matches. If they are all races to 15, each player will have about 5 chances to run 10 in each match. That's 1000 tries for the brass ring and a reduction in the over-all odds (for a single player starting from a first break shot) of roughly a factor of 1000.
 
... I had no idea back then that the nine ball break shot could become a trick shot ( making the corner ball every time - if racked properly).
Hi Danny,
Sadly, there are still people who don't understand that point about the nine ball break.
 
Without going into all the details and not factoring in any intangibles (pressure, cheating, etc...), the probability of having at least one 10 consecutive BNRs in a 64 field double elimination tournament is approximately as follows:

If the BNR probability for any game is X, then the odds of achieving at least one 10 consecutive BNRs in the tournament is Y.

X Y
10% 13,175,231:1
20% 12,866:1
30% 223:1
40% 12:1

The above assumes that everyone has the same BNR probability.


If someone knows the actual number of players in that tournament and the elimination format, we could calculate the odds (under these assumptions).
 
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historical b&r stats would have been nowhere near accurate enough for that insurance policy, personally, I think any world class player can accomplish the feat once over 1000 attempts (I've seen short stops run 5 packs all day), maybe even better

obviously it wouldn't take long at those odds for a series of tournaments to produce a winner
 
Without going into all the details and not factoring in any intangibles (pressure, cheating, etc...), the probability of having at least one 10 consecutive BNRs in a 64 field double elimination tournament is approximately as follows: ...
Did you factor in that the races were to 15 (at least on the winners' side)?
 
Bob,

Thank you for posting that.

I came across this article which quoted Earl stating the odds were 1 in 7.8 million. I wonder what data the actuaries used in their modeling, as it was a major factor for the insurers to determine the pricing of the policy.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1996/may/31/million-dollar-jackpot-wont-affect-pool-pro/

I like this quote from Earl in that article (1996): "I've played a lot of pool in my life, and I'm very fortunate to have the gift to play the game well. I used to have an ego about it, but I got over that long ago."
 
"It was unbelievable pressure" - Max Eberle 'The Million Dollar Pool Shot'

Remember these pockets were slightly over 4.25 inches.....and it was very humid conditions. Max Eberle talks about this in this interview - CLICK TO SEE THE FREE INTERVIEW


I'm talking about Earls odds for breaking and running 10 racks in a row from the start of the set in a tournament.

To figure the odds do I simply figure out the odds of him breaking and running one game and then use that figure in a 10 game parlay? Or are there other factors that need to be included?
 
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how, Danny, do you rack them to make the corner ball?

Why don't you explain how to "rack them properly" to make the corner ball every time. Then it will be the same for everyone and things will have to change. The "Magical Rack" is a joke, the corner ball goes like it has eyes.....but how, Danny, do you rack them to make the corner ball go with a regular rack?

Inquiring minds want to know ;)
watch



I'm talking about Earls odds for breaking and running 10 racks in a row from the start of the set in a tournament.

Racking your own and or having a friend rack is about the same end result for nine ball, Earl played great that day - I was there - I only wish the game would have been ten ball. So as to eliminate any redundancies associated with the corner ball problem. I had no idea back then that the nine ball break shot could become a trick shot ( making the corner ball every time - if racked properly).
 
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253186_523289931030381_1769074344_n.jpgwhatever the odds were it was a great thing to see Earls million dollar run i will never forget it
 
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