Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

If anything smoking has hurt pool.........

kybill9 said:
This is a stupid post. Smoking isn't the cause of pool rooms closing. Its the cost of everything going up and wages going down. Thanks teabaggers, we love trickle down economics. We love busting up unions so people can earn less. We love right to work states so wages can be depressed. We love having no health care or retirement. We love working minimum wage and paying more taxes than Bank of America. It just like the other lies you hear. The recession, depression that started in 2007-2008 is something Obama created. People are so stupid in this country, they will believe the lies they are told because they are too lazy to care about the truth.
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It has kept people from even thinking about playing because they don't want to deal with the smell and the stench let along all the known health hazards just being around the second hand smoke.

Therefore there is no growth from new customers.

My sister in law just came to watch me play in a big tourney. Drove 200+ miles with my brother to get there. After 10 minutes she told my brother she was leaving. If he didn't come with her right then he could walk home.

She had a good point. He didn't argue. And I totally understand.

they would like to get a table and play some but they have no place to play league that is smoke free. They live in Mississippi that is a smoking state.

Leagues and tournaments give a player motivation to play.

I see so many players as I give lessons around the country, have a table at home and only go to the poolhall or bar just long enough to get their weeks in so they can go to state or Vegas for the big tournys.

Then they even have to deal with the smoke at the state tournaments. Vegas has wised up and figured out this is a losing deal for sure to allow smoking.

If anything this smoking has been a big drawback as far as pool growing.

In the places with no smoking, the business is growing where the owners are promoting different things to create something for the people and players.

The days have been long gone where you could just throw in a bunch of tables and make money.

Now they have to promote something.

non smoking is a good start. It opens up your business to everyone instead of mostly just smokers.
 
genomachino said:
It has kept people from even thinking about playing because they don't want to deal with the smell and the stench let along all the known health hazards just being around the second hand smoke.

Therefore there is no growth from new customers.

My sister in law just came to watch me play in a big tourney. Drove 200+ miles with my brother to get there. After 10 minutes she told my brother she was leaving. If he didn't come with her right then he could walk home.

She had a good point. He didn't argue. And I totally understand.

they would like to get a table and play some but they have no place to play league that is smoke free. They live in Mississippi that is a smoking state.

Leagues and tournaments give a player motivation to play.

I see so many players as I give lessons around the country, have a table at home and only go to the poolhall or bar just long enough to get their weeks in so they can go to state or Vegas for the big tournys.

Then they even have to deal with the smoke at the state tournaments. Vegas has wised up and figured out this is a losing deal for sure to allow smoking.

If anything this smoking has been a big drawback as far as pool growing.

In the places with no smoking, the business is growing where the owners are promoting different things to create something for the people and players.

The days have been long gone where you could just throw in a bunch of tables and make money.

Now they have to promote something.

non smoking is a good start. It opens up your business to everyone instead of mostly just smokers.
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I couldn't agree with you more, pool needs to be presented on a backdrop of Fun, double elim tournaments are not fun for a amateur. He wants to play regardless if he loses and 2 and out is not a way to make a hit with amateur pool players. Tournaments are for you to test your skill. There has to be a marketing component or any place is not going to do well.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
still seems weird to me that folks would prefer NOT to play a sport they love because they can't smoke.
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Yea, can you imagine someone storming out of work because they don't allow smoking?

Smokers need to get over it. This isn't the 20th century anymore.
 
BugHunter said:
I read the first half of this thread, then a page here and there. Pretty much, if you read page one, you've got the gist of it. Then, 3 room owners chimed in when the OP asked for these success stories and for another 10 pages (6 months) he continued to act as if nobody had responded to that challenge.

The room I shoot at has been non-smoking since it opened. Nicest place you could want to shoot. Several rooms have opened over the years and allowed smoking, every one of them closed up shop within a few years. In several cases, they had superior locations, and more parking, with food and sometimes alcohol to boot. Still could not compete with the non-smoking establishment. For the people who want to sit in a smoky bar and play pool we have clubs. The local Eagles club wreaks of stench the second you open the door. You know, that smell of 50 years of horrible chain smoking filth on every surface. I'm not sure burning it down would solve the odor issues. I was in it for the first time in 15 years recently and the smell in the foyer made me want to gag. And this is what people want in their business.

Then, let's take a closer look at this smoking ban and the "effects". The Op evidently owns a room where he turned a smoking area into a non-smoking one, and then acts as if he has no idea why people are not in there. Hellllloooooooooo, maybe YOUR sensory organs are paralyzed, but mine are not. Your non-smoking (former smoking) area still stinks to high heaven. The smell makes me want to vomit after a while. Honestly, the smoke actually masks that when smokers are present. In other words, the stench of the smoke is actually a little better, even if this musty old ash tray smell doesn't burn your eyes! :lol: Take notes from the guy who says he's been 2 years of trying to clean the place to make it welcoming again. Touch your tables, now your hands stink. Pick up a rake, now your hands stink. Raining outside, omg it stinks. It never ends.
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O.P. said in a reply you may have not read that the business left for a smoking room and this business incleded the non-smoking clientele. That was about 4 pages back.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
O.P. said in a reply you may have not read that the business left for a smoking room and this business incleded the non-smoking clientele. That was about 4 pages back.
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Sounds like some friends got together and found them a new place or someone got ticked off as possibilities. Could be cheaper drink prices, nicer staff sounds like there might be more to it.
 
336Robin said:
Sounds like some friends got together and found them a new place or someone got ticked off as possibilities. Could be cheaper drink prices, nicer staff sounds like there might be more to it.
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IDK, I just took it to mean that they were following the action as would any Runyon character. I'm imagining the main action guys are smokers and when they bail so does the whole posse.

I have not followed Paul's threads for over a year now. There is a chance that some of the "other reasons" might be his room's dress code or maybe they were being spoonfed the "no conflict rules" outside of tournament hours.

Either way I hope his business has prospered since the 1st of the year.

Maybe he can pinpoint why he lost many of his non smoking crowd.
 
cueandcushion said:
I keep hearing so many people claiming all the reasons pool is shrinking. Video games, casinos, no smoking laws, $2 bottled water. I think the reason many people never address is young players.

When I started target shooting, it was my dad that taught me. Not the NRA
When I started weightlifting, it was my friends that joined me in the gym. Not Muscle and Fitness Magazine
When I started rock climbing, it was workout partners that went with me. Not REI sporting goods.
When I started fishing, it was my grandma and grandpa that took me. Not a Zebco rep.
When I started hunting, it was my cousins and best friend I went with. Not Winchester Firearms.

For pool, we should not expect the APA, BCA or any other group to be the primary tool for drawing new blood.

Too many pool players come to a room by themselves, expect to find new blood to play or gamble with. For being a social game there seems to be a lot of loners in pool halls. I think a major improvement for the LONG TERM survival of pool lies in bring in GROUPS of people. Not to gamble, not to be a pro. Just to have fun. You have to start making it enjoyable for the sport to grow. The small percentage of people that will take it to the next level will be found out of the larger pack that just wanted to have fun. Pool players should bring their kids or their family or friends from OUTSIDE the pool world to just have fun sometime. I almost never see that anymore. I think its the largest missed opportunity in our sport.

When is the last time you brought a GROUP of non players to a room???? Just for fun.
End rant.
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This quote was on page 37 and to me is real important.

Non Playing Groups, Fun.

Non Playing Groups can be found.......give invitations to come play...a group activity for free to set the hook and make sure that they have fun.

What makes pool fun? Social Aspects, 8-ball. Let them play like they will, but at some point organize them into teams and let them play King of the Hill 8-ball. 4 people around a table waiting for their challenge match to come up so they have a crack at taking over the table is fun.

New people to pool from invited groups and make sure they have fun.

It sets the hook in deep and you do this from time to time and you invite people to come back when you do it again and when they get there you have another group of people coming for a FREE POOL EXPERIENCE....who also get to have FUN!

You start to get a following, people start love coming to your free event and get interested in playing more.

You invite groups of people with money to spend. People who you wouldn't mind having in your home. Some of those people are looking for something to do with their time and they are looking for friends. Pool is a great social game if you make it that way. Just make sure not to introduce things that are solitary in nature. Solitary competition has its place but not when you are trying to pick up customers.
 
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I've only browsed some of the replies to this thread, but I guess I'm at a loss to understand why this is even worth the time to discuss.

No smoking in public places and establishments is the law -- and it isn't going to change.

Has it been good for pool? Or, bad for pool?

What difference does it make???? None! The law isn't going to change.

Get over it.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
IDK, I just took it to mean that they were following the action as would any Runyon character. I'm imagining the main action guys are smokers and when they bail so does the whole posse.

I have not followed Paul's threads for over a year now. There is a chance that some of the "other reasons" might be his room's dress code or maybe they were being spoonfed the "no conflict rules" outside of tournament hours.

Either way I hope his business has prospered since the 1st of the year.

Maybe he can pinpoint why he lost many of his non smoking crowd.
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True if you lose a regular they can take business with them if people know where they went. My take on the whole situation is "one monkey don't run the show."

I took comments from a room owner in Florida macguy and I started remembering things that made pool fun for me and I think I have a prescription for touching a different demographic group but it involves personal marketing strategies and maybe could be deeper than that in order to keep things moving....new people coming in on a regular basis.

I don't see anything wrong with what Paul is saying. He is dead right about a demographic problem with this sport as a whole. I am not a room owner but I love to play and its a real pisser to go to local waterhole/ pool room and no one is there to play.

I ask myself what is the answer to this riddle and Ive been working on it for years with friends of mine that are in the industry.

Everything always goes back to the owner of the rooms. The owners are the ones who have do anything that gets done and when all you really have to do for the most part is unlock the door to alcohol sales getting a room owner to do much is going to be a real hard sale.

Just as CuenCushion suggests get groups of people to come in. Give them Free Pool on a bait, make sure its fun. What does it cost you ? A phone call or a visit to a local Civic Club? That's pretty cheap.

Just make sure they have fun or its all wasted. Play music for them then they will do the same. Personal Marketing Strategies do not have to cost an arm and a leg and they put you in direct contact with the demographic you want.

People have a lot of things vying for their attention. Pool is not one of them, so you have to go to the demographic to get noticed.
 
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One step at a time...there are other policies that have been implimented at different intervals in the last 18 months:

- In the smoking bar, there is no smoking on Saturday afternoons.

- We have two weekly tournaments. There is no smoking during the tournaments.

- We have four quarterly regional Nine-Ball events. There is no smoking on those days.

- When there are parties where there are minors present, smoking is prohibited.
 
Me and my wife are non-smokers, we found a local pool hall that is non-smoking but the downside is they only have 1 9foot table. (I hate jumping from different size tables) Recently went to another pool hall that went to non-smoking, it was fine playing in there but after we left, the stinch of cigerates was all over us, we wont be going back.
 
Original Post

Paul Schofield said:
One step at a time...there are other policies that have been implimented at different intervals in the last 18 months:

- In the smoking bar, there is no smoking on Saturday afternoons.

- We have two weekly tournaments. There is no smoking during the tournaments.

- We have four quarterly regional Nine-Ball events. There is no smoking on those days.

- When there are parties where there are minors present, smoking is prohibited.
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Paul,
I went back and read your original post to remind me of what the idea was here and basically I walk away from that with....Pool appeals to a lower demographic which is pissed that it cant smoke at bars and therefore since pool businesses are geared up to serve this demographic when they don't come back the Pool Business is in deep doo.

From reading other posts:

You have two bars one of which is not doing so well that has gone non-smoking and the other smoking bar you ban smoking during some events.

Im not familiar with what happens in a state where you can have smoking or non smoking bars here in North Carolina you don't have a choice. Restaurants, Bars and Public Places are all non smoking now. Yes there was a loss of die hard customers but some came back when they decided it was ok to step outside to get a smoke and some places made special places for their smokers outside and one room rented a room adjacent to the sportsbar that you access from inside the bar and smokers would walk over to it and smoke inside.

What keeps coming into my mind is......ok business changed. From the information you posted it pretty much explains the demographic issue.

The answer that all of this put me looking for was:

How do we as an industry recruit and keep New Customers? The idea that you pose with your posts and information is that the customers that we were serving before weren't serving us well in the long run and how do we attract a better demographic? Obviously if we do that, we would be changing the way the general public looked at and eventually felt about pool. At least this is how I disseminate all of this information. Straighten me out if I have it wrong.

I understand you have one bar that is not doing as well as the other but I see it as a much bigger problem just as you suggest. Im not sure I would know how to say well if you do this then the old customers would come back but I do think there is a way to attract New Customers without it costing you a lot of money or a lot of your time and from a better demographic possibly with money.
 
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Agent 99 said:
I can tell you this, all I ever hear is about how pool halls are closing all over the country.

People have written about this here at great lengths.

Well, in my town we have 4 major, and very nice pool halls, that have been in business for quite some time and continue to do well today.

There are no such things as smoking laws in my town.

That's all I got.
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Are there any non-smoking poolrooms in Las Vegas. If there are, how do they do?
 
One thing I like to see anywhere that allows smoking indoors? Smoke eaters. Any place that allows smoking but doesn't have these, it's like walking through a fog. Was at my dinky dink 4-team in house league two weeks ago, and the smoke was bad. Finally asked the bartender to turn on the smoke eaters (4vents spread around the room). Helped immensely, and fast. Yes, they can be loud, but if you're gonna have smoking, gotta have them.
 
leto1776 said:
One thing I like to see anywhere that allows smoking indoors? Smoke eaters. Any place that allows smoking but doesn't have these, it's like walking through a fog. Was at my dinky dink 4-team in house league two weeks ago, and the smoke was bad. Finally asked the bartender to turn on the smoke eaters (4vents spread around the room). Helped immensely, and fast. Yes, they can be loud, but if you're gonna have smoking, gotta have them.
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The problem with investing in those is the threat of the law suddenly making those things moot. Chalkers in SF (out of biz now) had the best air handling equipment in the world and BAM, just like that, their $200K investment lost all its value when Cali made indoor smoking illegal.

Threatening things change behaviors.

Jeff Livingston
 
This topic is where society as a whole shows their stupidity. Smoking is a lot like nudity. You cannot do it in public, unless there is a place for it designated for walking around with no clothes.

So you don't want to see nude people.. you DON'T go to a strip club. You have a choice. People who like nudity can go there and punk the junk.

Smoking should be allowed the same latitude. You absolutely should be allowed to open a smoking room. If you don't like smoke, you don't go. If you want to work their, know that smoking takes place and it is YOUR choice to work there. Same as a nudie bar... if you don't like the human body, don't apply for a freaking job there. You know what is happening.

People should be allowed choices, and the government should have zero say about those choices.

I am going to to open up a SM / Smoking / foot fetish nudie bar with Spanking Saturdays and 9 foot pool tables..... just because... If you don't like it, don't come. It's not what I am into but if I can make some money, why not?... :eek:

JV
 
I do agree with the above post, smokers want there own room, go ahead, I personally don't care for smoking rooms or bar, and some smokers don't like a smoking room. as far as decline, young people just are not interested in pool, you go out for league night, mostly over 40 age people. I myself learn pool at a very young age because my dads idea of watching me was to take me to a bar and give me some quarter while he got drunk. Then when I could drive I went to monoski's for $5 Saturday, place was packed with teenage kids all day, this was the 90's. Before internet got big, video game consoles got big, kids now would rather sit in front of a TV or handheld devise. Both of my boys are interested in pool, ages 4-6, because I have a table at home, got them little sticks, and play with them. And the six year old, does play pool on my phone and nexus.
 
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