Jumping up a level

J

Joules

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How often were you playing when you went from B- -> A level type of player?
(so BB 8 ball losing 2-7 against the ghost to beating the ghost more often than not.)

How much improvement can happen if you practice for 10 hours a week? A lot of time I feel like I just end up going in a big circle and end up right where I started.

I get that improvement is inch by inch and that it will take a while, i'm not looking for 'the secret'. Just trying to hear from people that have made the jump and if anyone has done it practicing an hour a day over a course of a year or two or if it is mostly from people that play 8 hours a day for 3 months and finally get over the hump.

Joules
 
Joules said:
How often were you playing when you went from B- -> A level type of player?
(so BB 8 ball losing 2-7 against the ghost to beating the ghost more often than not.)

How much improvement can happen if you practice for 10 hours a week? A lot of time I feel like I just end up going in a big circle and end up right where I started.

I get that improvement is inch by inch and that it will take a while, i'm not looking for 'the secret'. Just trying to hear from people that have made the jump and if anyone has done it practicing an hour a day over a course of a year or two or if it is mostly from people that play 8 hours a day for 3 months and finally get over the hump.

Joules
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Local-wise jump, yes. It's more like saying you want to run a marathon and then setting out to be able to do so.. but, then every block or so you run you wonder how well you're progressing.

You can improve if you keep those 10 hours as focused practice.

I play/played a lot.. like, probably, more than a lot. A bunch of a lots. I'm still expecting to crawl into bed at 2am one of these days and get slapped or get home and find my cues in pieces. I must have a keeper.
 
It depends on what your current level is. From B to strong A is a relatively big jump. I also don't associate A players with barbox play. I'm probably a B and I can break and run usually at least once every 5 racks on a barbox playing 8ball- more playing 9ball. I have beaten the ghost many times on a barbox in a race to 7. I cannot do that on a 9foot.

My thinking for your question is that it is possible to make that jump playing 10 hours a week but it will take much longer because you have to relearn certain things more times playing that little. Practicing for a bigger block of time allows you to develop muscle memory for certain things quicker since you take less breaks.
 
imo, you cant quantify a jump like this. Every person will progress at their own rate; it all depends on what you put into it. Do you just bang balls around? Or do you do drills, have a purpose, or something specific that you want to work on in a practice session? If you truly want to improve your game, take an honest assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, maybe take the Billiard University fundamentals exam to help with this. Then develop a plan to turn those weaknesses into strengths. Challenge yourself with competitive matches to improve your mental toughness. In six months, ask yourself, am I there yet? Hopefully the answer will always be "no". so that you will always be trying to hone your game, keeping razor sharp and ready for action.
 
Quality, not quantity.

You can hit balls for a year straight, but if you don't understand what you are doing wrong, then you are wasting your time.
 
Absolutely agree

DAVE_M said:
Quality, not quantity.

You can hit balls for a year straight, but if you don't understand what you are doing wrong, then you are wasting your time.
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the quality of your practice is the key , you can hit balls 10 hours a day 7 days a week and sure over time your shot making will improve , but getting some good instruction will do you more good than a year of just practice on your own , some great DVDs out there that can show you how to structure your practice , and spending some coin on lessons with a good instructor is a solid investment in your game IMHO
 
The people I personally know locally who are A players (can consistently beat the 9 ball ghost on a 9' table), got there within just 5 total year of first picking up a cue.

I asked one of them how long he was my speed (C+/B-) when he was coming up, and he responded with: "about 2 weeks". I totally believe it.

YMMV:)
 
vrrdriver said:
If you truly want to improve your game, take an honest assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, maybe take the Billiard University fundamentals exam to help with this. Then develop a plan to turn those weaknesses into strengths.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm trying to figure out how to do. The problem is finding the balance of developing new skills while retaining your current ones with limited practice time.

Let's say I've identified 10 things that I would like to work on for improvement, should I practice each one of those things once every 2 weeks. (This is currently how I'm practicing and I don't really like it because the progress is so slow it is hard to measure even on a quarterly basis.) Or should I work on 1 thing for a month or longer until I get it down cold before I worry about the other 9 deficiencies. Then - How much time should be dedicated to keeping that new skill at that level while I'm trying to work on the next thing.

I know there isn't one way to do it. I was just looking for insights from people that have made a noticeable jump in ability with limited practice time.
 
once again...it's difficult to put a timeframe on progress of this type. for example, i worked on 2 rail kicks for about three days straight, 12 hours total give or take, until I could consistently hit the1/4 of the ball I'm aiming for. but when I was working on rail shots and shooting over balls, it took me much longer because it exposed a flaw in my stroke which I then had to go back and correct

bottom line, it will take you however long it takes
 
from my personal experience, the leap came from not so much practicing as emersing myself in playing stiff competition everyday for 3-4 months. another key was not knowing the speed of my competition. some were better than me and many were about the same speed and a few were of lesser speed, but not many because the locals new my speed. it should also be pointed out that i gambled with each of these players and i'm not talking about pool time either.

i could have went from being an average player or even been afraid to play anyone, especially new faces. that was not true in my case, i became better; that jump you are seeking happened, but if i had not been in this perfect storm of time, place and effort it probably never would have happened.

i hope you find what you are seeking; pool wise that is.
 
Banks said:
It's more like saying you want to run a marathon and then setting out to be able to do so.. but, then every block or so you run you wonder how well you're progressing.
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I like this analogy. This is what it feels like. Just impatient i guess. Though I could spin it and say that measurement is important to make sure you are doing the right things to move towards your goal. Maybe I should just measure every 5 miles though instead of every block.

the quality of your practice is the key , you can hit balls 10 hours a day 7 days a week and sure over time your shot making will improve , but getting some good instruction will do you more good than a year of just practice on your own , some great DVDs out there that can show you how to structure your practice , and spending some coin on lessons with a good instructor is a solid investment in your game IMHO
Click to expand...

I agree with this too. I've taken 2 lessons and I've been less than impressed. It's the 'good' instruction that is hard to find. I do have a lot of books and dvd's on the game. This is actually part of my problem I think. I jump around too much. I might just need to hit a stop shot 3000 times without playing so I can solidify my fundamentals better without all the other things getting in the way.
 
I'm thinking of setting aside the winter to practice exclusively on pool, with the goal of jumping a speed. I'm working on a rough draft of my "game plan". I've been playing for 20 years, and if I do this, I plan to stop playing entirely, and only work on my plan during the period in question.

My rough plan thus far is:

Focused Practice:
Focused practice will consist of the following drills:
3000 strokes of shooting CB directly into pocket, per Tor Lowry’s video. I will switch it up between many speeds, many tip positions, many pocket aim positions, and combinations of all of the above.

Ball Pocketing Drill: The stroke grooved from drill 1 may cause shots I previously shot with a stroke flaw to miss. Therefore, I want to work on some basic shots to obtain the correct alignment for them. For any given shot, I will shoot it with various speed, spin, and small variations in cut angle.

Joe Tuckers’s Guaranteed Improvement:
I will go through the entire book. A drill each day.

-
-
-
-

My personal weaknesses:
I will record 10 racks playing the 4 ball ghost. Any shot that did not go as planned, whether from a pocketing perspective or a position perspective, will be noted. The noted shots will be collected from the video, set up, and practiced individually. Each shot will be shot a total of 100 times, in the following sequence: 10 times each shot, 30 times each shot, 10 times each shot, 40 times each shot, 10 times each shot.

BU Exams
 
For me, it was phsyical changes that took me up to an A level. Fixing the chicken wing stance, jerky stroke and introducing a proper eye pattern were keys for me.
I think for players who have been playing for several years, the ability and knowledge are there, its things like a flawed stance or lack of PSR that lead to inconsistency, which is the biggest difference between an A and B player imo.
 
vrrdriver said:
once again...it's difficult to put a timeframe on progress of this type. for example, i worked on 2 rail kicks for about three days straight, 12 hours total give or take, until I could consistently hit the1/4 of the ball I'm aiming for. but when I was working on rail shots and shooting over balls, it took me much longer because it exposed a flaw in my stroke which I then had to go back and correct

bottom line, it will take you however long it takes
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying. I'm not trying to tie anyone down into a specific time frame. I get that everyone will be different. Let's say it would take me 50 hours to learn 2 rail kicks to consistently hit the 1/4 i was aiming at. I'm ok with that. I understand that it takes a lot of work. The problem comes in the time it takes to maintain that skill once learned. The sharper you want your blade the more time you have to spend sharpening your knife to keep it there. That's where the issue with limited practice time comes into play.

After you figure out how to consistently hit 1/4 of the ball then hopefully I would almost always just be able to hit the ball without any dedicated practice time (just keep it good enough through normal game play) but if I want to continue being able to hit the right 1/4 and I have to practice it 2 hours a month then I can't even consider that skill because it is too limiting to the skills that I can maintain with limited practice.
 
Joules said:
I like this analogy. This is what it feels like. Just impatient i guess. Though I could spin it and say that measurement is important to make sure you are doing the right things to move towards your goal. Maybe I should just measure every 5 miles though instead of every block.
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Nah, just forget about measurement for a bit. You'll get caught up more in trying to see improvement and will focus less on just doing things to improve. You want it to turn into something that you do naturally. Sitting there watching it isn't going to help and may even get you more frustrated at times.

Like running..

Pay attention to when you see that you're running that extra couple of blocks, not having to stop as often, etc.

For pool..

You'll begin to see the easier way to do a break-out. Playing for position means playing for a natural angle more and more. Things like that. For two or three years, I really didn't feel like I had progressed much. Then I'd think to myself.. well, the me of two years ago wouldn't want to gamble much with the me of today. At that point, I figured out that even if I wasn't running racks like I thought, I had definitely become a much tougher opponent even though my shooting was marginally better than before.

Keep practicing and understand what you're doing and after a while you'll know you're improving.
 
If there is a 3 cushion table nearby run to it and learn to play.
You will find out how much you don't know about the cue ball.3 cushion humbles A players, eats many of them alive.

Practice 75% stroke drills
Work on your weakness
1/2 table run out patterns
Be a sponge for knowledge, apply what works, put the other stuff on the back burner.

When you know that cue ball and can deliver the stroke, your game can sky rocket. Of course you need all the ingredients.

Best of Luck
 
Someone who isn't beating the ghost now on an 8 ft table is not a B player yet. I think you can go from C to B with 10 hours a week as long as at least 5-7 of those bours are focused practice that is good, appropriate practice. B to A May be tougher, but I am sure can be done, just slower. That being said, I think a certain level of talent is needed to ever become an A level player.
 
Practice

Joules said:
I might just need to hit a stop shot 3000 times without playing so I can solidify my fundamentals better without all the other things getting in the way.
Click to expand...

A good player will practice a shot until he gets it right , a great player will practice a shot until he can't get it wrong

Don't remember who said that but its surely the truth
 
Joules said:
How often were you playing when you went from B- -> A level type of player?
(so BB 8 ball losing 2-7 against the ghost to beating the ghost more often than not.)

How much improvement can happen if you practice for 10 hours a week? A lot of time I feel like I just end up going in a big circle and end up right where I started.

I get that improvement is inch by inch and that it will take a while, i'm not looking for 'the secret'. Just trying to hear from people that have made the jump and if anyone has done it practicing an hour a day over a course of a year or two or if it is mostly from people that play 8 hours a day for 3 months and finally get over the hump.

Joules
Click to expand...

IMO, practice is good, but i would not do any practice to shoot easy balls until you master thin cuts ( cuts larger than 1/2 ball to 80 degrees cuts, i mean up in the 95-97% make, barley made it do not count), long thin cuts, ob on rails, straight long shots with CB remains on same line of aim with follow or draw, all kind of english, fast, medium, and slow speeds, two and three rail position english follow or draw position. If you fail at any of these, do not waste your time with drills, or just shooting easy balls, or balls you desire to shoot, because those you will most likely make in a match.

Thin long cuts at all speed, and others listed above teaches you proper way to stroke and aim and eliminates bad habits, and gets the fear of these hard shots out of your mind, when confronted with the real one.

You have to master thin cuts on multiple days and every time you shoot on any table all the time, then you practice break and run, or drills.

That will certainly gets you up to A+++ guaranteed.
 
Joules said:
How often were you playing when you went from B- -> A level type of player?
(so BB 8 ball losing 2-7 against the ghost to beating the ghost more often than not.)

How much improvement can happen if you practice for 10 hours a week? A lot of time I feel like I just end up going in a big circle and end up right where I started.

I get that improvement is inch by inch and that it will take a while, i'm not looking for 'the secret'. Just trying to hear from people that have made the jump and if anyone has done it practicing an hour a day over a course of a year or two or if it is mostly from people that play 8 hours a day for 3 months and finally get over the hump.

Joules
Click to expand...

Some players never go from a B to an A no matter how long they play. You need to play CORRECTLY to get to that level as well as have some natural ability with hand-eye coordination and ability to view the shots in their true form (what you think you are looking at is what you are actually looking at in other words). If you play every day for an hour, with proper practice, I'd say going up to your potential in a year is very possible. If you play 8 hours a day and you have no idea what you are doing, you will be able to pocket balls but will be random on position and have no table knowledge and will just look foolish against good players.
 
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