In that case, if this person posted "Smoking should be allowed in every pool room in the U.S." I guess your response would be "He doesn't mean it - look at some of his other posts." Semantics.
Fusco's The Spot (smoking allowed - nasty)
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In that case, if this person posted "Smoking should be allowed in every pool room in the U.S." I guess your response would be "He doesn't mean it - look at some of his other posts." Semantics.
It seems that some of the folks who argue that ending smoking in pool rooms would hurt the business, are the same folks who argue that talking about smoking in poolrooms is hurting the business. Irony.
If this person said that in a post I would say he had been smoking...something.
Sorry I missed your point, but maybe "on a mission" is too strong.
He used to live in Dallas and in numerous threads about pool tournaments and leagues in a local room, the mouse jumps in with his smoking opinions. This is even after he moved back up north (states away). It's poor etiquette to derail a thread advertising a pool league playing out of a smoking establishment.
I wish him well in the effort to help educate potential patrons.
As a point of information, I went to The Spot without knowing whether it allowed smoking. Just never thought about it.
There seem to be lots of opinions about how allowing or not allowing smoking affects a pool room's business, but I'm not sure that many of them are based on knowledge of facts. I posted just to say that I'm one person who actually walked in hoping for good things, and walked away, not to return, due to smoke. I will also observe that if the substantial majority of adults in the US are non-smokers, it probably follows that any different (higher) percentage of smokers among pool players is not so much higher as to make that percentage a majority percentage. So the questions for room owners are: What percentage of non-smoking pool players, like me, simply won't patronize a smoke filled room? What percentage will patronize, but less frequently than they would if there were no smoking allowed? What percentage would be happier customers? And, importantly, particularly in this (unfortunate for us) era of closing rooms, what percentage of players who would prefer to be able to smoke in a pool room would patronize the room notwithstanding the room owner's not allowing smoking inside? My sense of us lovers of pool is that our addiction to playing is more than sufficiently strong to trump the desire to be able to smoke inside, in most cases.
No roads will be closed. Iin fact, that road will now be used for the local chemical plant to dump its waste into the unused woods by the neighborhood.If they had NO OTHER PLACES TO PLAY, you would have an argument. What's next? You guys going to go into a cigar store and complain about the smoking?
He has made a choice, its his choice to serve the smoking clientele. In fact, I wish a cigar/pool hall would give it a whirl just like the 20's and 30's.. put a wooden indian outside and let's do the Charelston...
Seriously, there are choices you make the one that is right for YOU, and stay out of everyone elses business. If PA doesn't have a total ban, and he is within the law, then don't go or open a non smoking room next door.
Think of it this way.. two roads in town, both go to the same place, one goes through the country and is 25 minutes, the other through a city slum and it takes 10 minutes... which road you driving? (non gun owning(unless you're the bad guy) north east town)
Now the government shuts down the country rd and says the other road will leave a smaller carbon foot print... betcha don't think carbon dioxide looks so bad now....:smile:
JV
Its ok, those in the neighborhood can choose to move.
It's far from being a sh1t hole...as a matter of fact it's probably the nicest poolroom in a fifty mile radius. I've been there a few times on the weekends during the afternoon, and found it to be a very pleasant room to play in. If it were closer, I'd play in it on a consistent basis. I think what's being said about the smoke is being exaggerated some by an ardent anti-smoking crusader. I'm not a fan of coming out of any smoking place smelling of smoke and having to clean-up as soon as I get home, but I've been doing it for so long, I guess I can live with it for the few years I've got left on the planet. I prefer non-smoking rooms and bars, but it won't stop me from playing if there is smoking in the place. Smelling bad is a minor inconvenience. IMHO:groucho:
I've been a millwright/mechanic in steel mills and petrol-chemical plants for close to forty years, the crap I was exposed to hasn't killed me, I don't think a smokey poolroom or bar is going to do it either.
It's really pretty simple as has already been stated "If you don't like smoke stay the f*** out and if it doesn't bother you then go".Why does everyone think, smokers or not, that they should be able to choose what someone else does? If you feel like something will affect you negatively. You just STAY AWAY! How freakin simple is that?!
This society we live in is so fu***d up.I have watched people die from cancer that have never smoked as well as seen those die that did smoke.I've seen people in their 70's and beyond that smoke and don't have cancer and I've seen babies that have cancer.
Think of how much better off this country would be if people minded their own business.I would love to see that happen but it never will casue of the bunch of crybabies we have to deal with on a regular basis
Get over it!!
This society we live in is so fu***d up.I have watched people die from cancer that have never smoked as well as seen those die that did smoke.I've seen people in their 70's and beyond that smoke and don't have cancer and I've seen babies that have cancer.
Think of how much better off this country would be if people minded their own business.I would love to see that happen but it never will casue of the bunch of crybabies we have to deal with on a regular basis
Get over it!!
Are you familiar with Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle"? First obvious thing that jumped to my mind, thinking about good things that have resulted from people not 'minding their own business'.
I understand our 'freedom of choice' perspective, but when your choices have negative impact on others, those choices are no longer 'free'.
As the great poet nik hexum said:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
Until you violate the rights of another
Respect the space of your sister and your brother
That noon to 6 would not matter.. If the place is a smoking room it permeates everything from the carpet to the walls to the chairs and everything you touch including the table cloth..
I once bought 8 gold crown tables from a closed room and I thought they were yellow. When my wife began scrubbing them down they were actually white.
This place had been closed for like 6 months and the tables still stank so bad I could not have sold them to a private home owner. We had to clean everything from the ball returns to the frame and slates to get rid of the stink.
True you would not be breathing in hanging smoke but it would still be very unpleasant for a non smoker. Given a choice I would still go to a non smoking room.
Well said, sir! What the anti-smoking crusaders seem to keep forgetting is this: our choice to smoke (in a place which allows it) is NOT what is affecting them negatively. We are NOT infringing their right to breathe clean air. THEIR choice to go into a place which allows smoking is waiving their right to that clean air!
The problem I see here is that some of the nonsmoking players are greedy. Greedy because they are not satisfied with the non smoking poolrooms alone. They want to play in "ours" as well. So, for them to come to "our" house, they want us to change the environment to suit them, then tell us it's for our own good, sounding like the prez trying to sell "Obustercare!" When we don't comply with their wishes they cry like babies, write letters to politicians and try to get the law changed just so they can come play in our house! Of course, they fall back on the age-old argument, "it's about being healthy, it's for the good of the people!" And who can argue with someone whose only concern is the health and well being of others? Others, who in their mind, are too stupid to make the right choices, that is choices in agreement with theirs!
Some day I'm sure, if pool survives, every poolroom will be smoke free, and every household will be gun free, religion free, and choice free! But at least you will be able to play pool in any poolroom you want without having to breathe that nasty smoke, if pool is still allowed, that is...
That part speaks volumes.
Some of these posts remind me of the days when most restaurants still had separate smoking and non smoking areas. How many times did you see a non-smoker CHOOSE to sit in the smoking area because the table was available sooner than one in the non-smoking area, THEN loudly complain about it? They could have waited for a seat in the non-smoking area. They could have went to a non-smoking restaurant. But no, they'd CHOOSE to go to a smoking restaurant and then CHOOSE to sit in the smoking area.
This is no different than someone coming to my house, choosing to come out to the man cave with me and then *****ing at me for smoking a cigar. Hasn't happened yet but I suspect the day will come.
I'm not going to argue smoking doesn't harm you, that's absurd. However, cancer and heart disease are more likely to be genetic based, especially heart disease. The same anti smoking nazis seem to have no problem walking down the streets of a large metropolitan area where the exhaust from vehicles is far more harmful to their health than breathing someone's second hand smoke.
Yes, in general, people have a right to go into a business (restaurant, bar, pool room, etc.). However, they only have a choice if local regulations and the establishment's owner allow smoking. One of the choices is to refrain from going into the establishment if the smoke bothers them. Of course, freedom of speech allows them to make the choice to go in anyway and then whine and complain about it. That seems more than stupid but it is what it is.
This is no different than someone coming to my house, choosing to come out to the man cave with me and then *****ing at me for smoking a cigar. Hasn't happened yet but I suspect the day will come.
I'm not going to argue smoking doesn't harm you, that's absurd. However, cancer and heart disease are more likely to be genetic based, especially heart disease. The same anti smoking nazis seem to have no problem walking down the streets of a large metropolitan area where the exhaust from vehicles is far more harmful to their health than breathing someone's second hand smoke.
Yes, in general, people have a right to go into a business (restaurant, bar, pool room, etc.). However, they only have a choice if local regulations and the establishment's owner allow smoking. One of the choices is to refrain from going into the establishment if the smoke bothers them. Of course, freedom of speech allows them to make the choice to go in anyway and then whine and complain about it. That seems more than stupid but it is what it is.
Yes, yes it does! It gives an example of the point in the Black Sabbath lyric in your signature.
For centuries tobacco has been the number one cash crop world wide, and amazingly it has never been found growing wild on any place on the planet. Cigarettes are no longer made with pure tobacco and haven't for almost a century. Cigarettes and machine made cigars today have very little actual tobacco, as opposed hand made cigars which are made from a handful of actual tobacco leaves. Cigar smokers do not inhale. Real tobacco is not supposed to be inhaled, which only gives you a higher concentrate and quicker access to the bloodstream. Inhaling is believed to have become popular during Civil War as soldiers realized the quick rush from inhaling.
Air pollution has increased over the years and air quality in highly (over) developed metropolitan areas has decreased substantially. Conventional electricity is the biggest polluter of our air. Power consumption is now astronomical. Factor this in with mostly closed, central air systems where filters are never replaced, and the air everyone breathes is polluted, regardless of whether anyone is smoking or not. People also tend to spend less time outdoors and there's less natural environments to be enjoyed than in the past. All these factors make it hard for me to believe anyone can pinpoint cigarettes or anything else as the sole factor for our health issues. Even the food we're sold, approved by the FDA has so much poisons, etc. Over 70% of Americans are on prescription drugs, mostly opiates, now.
Everything in this world is a business model. Anything in this world in excess can be harmful to ones health and well being. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
Egos are the most fragile things we own. Enjoy the privilege of just being here and quit complaining so damn much.
Air pollution has increased over the years and air quality in highly (over) developed metropolitan areas has decreased substantially. Conventional electricity is the biggest polluter of our air. Power consumption is now astronomical. Factor this in with mostly closed, central air systems where filters are never replaced, and the air everyone breathes is polluted, regardless of whether anyone is smoking or not. People also tend to spend less time outdoors and there's less natural environments to be enjoyed than in the past. All these factors make it hard for me to believe anyone can pinpoint cigarettes or anything else as the sole factor for our health issues. Even the food we're sold, approved by the FDA has so much poisons, etc. Over 70% of Americans are on prescription drugs, mostly opiates, now.
Everything in this world is a business model. Anything in this world in excess can be harmful to ones health and well being. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
Egos are the most fragile things we own. Enjoy the privilege of just being here and quit complaining so damn much.
poolmouse(don), you knew we were a smoking facility long before you ever came here.
Then you choose to come on the busiest night of the week.
You can try your best to sway the public from coming here with your personal agenda and , even worse yet, try to change the way Pete has been running his PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB business for 24 years as much as you want...Sorry ....That is not going to happen.
Come up with half a million and and you can build your own public/private non smoking facility.
We are a thriving Club/poolhall that caters to a group of people that still exist in society whether you or anyone else for that matter like it or not.
Business could'nt be better and were on track to have some of the best years he ever had.
You can also stop speculating that smoking here is why pete has health problems as a way to justify and/or deflect away from your true intentions.
Pete smoked for 45 years and quit 7-8 years ago. And his personal business is non of ours. Please make note of this.
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I can thank you for bringing alot of attention to our club, ive had alot of Facebook page hits and commendation on AZB for addressing this issue publicly and professionally.
Thank you to our supporters and our 32000 members .
Then you choose to come on the busiest night of the week.
You can try your best to sway the public from coming here with your personal agenda and , even worse yet, try to change the way Pete has been running his PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB business for 24 years as much as you want...Sorry ....That is not going to happen.
Come up with half a million and and you can build your own public/private non smoking facility.
We are a thriving Club/poolhall that caters to a group of people that still exist in society whether you or anyone else for that matter like it or not.
Business could'nt be better and were on track to have some of the best years he ever had.
You can also stop speculating that smoking here is why pete has health problems as a way to justify and/or deflect away from your true intentions.
Pete smoked for 45 years and quit 7-8 years ago. And his personal business is non of ours. Please make note of this.
.
I can thank you for bringing alot of attention to our club, ive had alot of Facebook page hits and commendation on AZB for addressing this issue publicly and professionally.
Thank you to our supporters and our 32000 members .
Yes, there are many contributing sources of air pollution. Which really makes it only that much more important, for those with a concern about the quality of the air that they breathe, to try to limit avoidable exposure to known carcinogens/toxic substances.
As for air quality inside pool rooms that allow smoking, here is one study that I found (the only one that I found -- it is from 2003, authored by an MD/MPH from Boston University's School of Public Health):
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/12/3/333.full
This study concludes:
"To the best of our knowledge, this is the first review of exposure to secondhand smoke among workers in bars, bowling alleys, billiard halls, betting establishments, and bingo parlours. We found that ambient nicotine concentrations in these establishments were 2.4 to 18.5 times higher than in offices and 1.5 to 11.7 times higher than in restaurants. Even in the lowest exposure conditions (the lower limit of the range of mean nicotine concentrations in all identified studies), nicotine concentrations in the 5 B’s exceeded those in offices by a factor of 1.8 to 16.0 and exceeded values in restaurants by a factor of 1.1 to 10.1. Thus, despite the high variability in exposure levels due to the small number of studies, the basic conclusion that the 5 B’s represent worksites with very high relative occupational levels of secondhand smoke exposure seems to be clear.
The high levels of secondhand smoke exposure in the 5 B’s translates into lifetime excess lung cancer risk estimates that exceed the typical de manifestis risk level, even for the lower limit of the range of observed exposures in these establishments. Based on the average exposure conditions, we estimate lifetime excess lung cancer mortality risk of between 1.0–4.1/1000 (compared to the typical de manifestis risk level of 0.3/1000). However, under the highest exposure conditions for any of the 5 B’s, workers are exposed to concentrations of nicotine that are about 26 times higher than in offices, resulting in an estimated excess lifetime lung cancer mortality risk of 1.4% (and 47 times the de manifestis risk level).
The data presented here suggest that the focus of clean indoor air policy promotion should shift to include all service workplaces, including not only restaurants, but the 5 B’s as well. We found that nicotine concentrations in the 5 B’s exceed those in restaurants by a factor of 1.5 to 11.7. Given that Wortley et al 41 found waiters and waitresses to have the highest serum cotinine concentrations of any occupational group (data for workers in the 5 B’s were not reported separately), this suggests that workers in the 5 B’s are actually the occupational groups most heavily exposed to secondhand smoke in the workplace."
If you are curious, you can look at Table 2 of the study to see how air quality broke down as between the five B's. Pool rooms fell in the middle, in terms of ranking.
Black Sabbath lyrics sometimes make a point ? This is turning into an educational thread.
I think you're missing the point. There should be both, places you can smoke and places you can't. This place you can, so smoke em' if you got em'....
I like most am a non-smoker, BUT I believe it should be allowed, if the owner wants to have it that way. It's his business, his choice.
I also believe the same thing about go-go bars, and rock clubs. You don't like ta-ta's don't go... you like rap, stay out of my club, I won't come to yours.
JV
I like most am a non-smoker, BUT I believe it should be allowed, if the owner wants to have it that way. It's his business, his choice.
I also believe the same thing about go-go bars, and rock clubs. You don't like ta-ta's don't go... you like rap, stay out of my club, I won't come to yours.
JV
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