Shane Has Won World Titles

Jaden said:
Players transitioning from snooker to pool will not be able to play the kick safe/kick shot, and safety game better than pool players without tremendous effort and time being put in.

They may have superior potting skills and the ability to stay down on shots better (at high levels this is almost a necessity for consistency), but that's about it.

To say they are superior cueists is ridiculous though, cueing isn't just about potting and consistency, it's about doing exactly what you want with the balls you interact with.

Jaden
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hence why I said they need time to master those things and it does not take overnight,

I think they are superior cuesits because pool players never have to play a shot 11 feet off the rail into a half sized cut pocket and still get the white to travel 13ft to get back safe on the baulk cushion

not saying pool players couldn't just they don't play those shots so they have developed bad habits like the pictures ron posted of JB
 
corvette1340 said:
By the way, unless any one of you assclowns have the scratch to put down on a potential matchup with one of your so called champions against Shane, you can't reply to anything else.

<---------throwing the mic down and walking offstage, biatcccccchhhhhh
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Alright. How about a race to 100 in each of american pool, english pool and chinese pool? Potts' local club has all three tables, so they play it there. Put your mic back on get him over here, and bring as much cash as you like. We can discuss variance and any other math you like when your boy is crying in the corner, begging for games only little girls can play.
 
Ron Swanson said:
No, not prefer, I'm saying they cannot play them, at least not consistently. Rewatch last year's MC, and you'll see why you lost so badly.

Bafflingly that variance is rarely mentioned. Imprecise positional play draws gasps of "bad luck" and "good effort", whereas, at the very highest level, it's the difference between success and failure.
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I guess I don't understand what you're saying. You said "Americans appear to place great emphasis on banking, combos and, especially, safety play, whereas other nations avoid them where possible, preferring precise positional play to eliminate the need for them."

But you say here that "they cannot play them." You need to clarify your pronoun references. Who cannot play what? Americans cannot play position?

And you do call it a "preference." As if those American cowboys like to shoot from the hip, playing combos and caroms, whereas the smart players from "other nations" make a conscious decision to play better position. If only Americans would have this revelation that position play is important in pool...

The fact is, weaker players play poor position and end up needing combos, caroms, etc, more than better players. It's one of the truisms of pool that great players make it look simple. I don't see how that's some kind of national character trait.
 
Jaden said:
Players transitioning from snooker to pool will not be able to play the kick safe/kick shot, and safety game better than pool players without tremendous effort and time being put in.

They may have superior potting skills and the ability to stay down on shots better (at high levels this is almost a necessity for consistency), but that's about it.

To say they are superior cueists is ridiculous though, cueing isn't just about potting and consistency, it's about doing exactly what you want with the balls you interact with.

Jaden
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Hmm. I fear the inability to understand what cueing really is is endemic in the US.
 
JB Cases said:
given the choice, which I have, I will take a six time world snooker champion's comments on the abilities of pool players over some anon who probably can't play at all.

And no Steve didn't say pool is easier to master. on the contrary he said some aspects are easier and others are harder.
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Find me the golfer who says tennis is a piece of piss. Then you can quote Steve Davis.
 
Ron Swanson said:
No, not prefer, I'm saying they cannot play them, at least not consistently. Rewatch last year's MC, and you'll see why you lost so badly.

Bafflingly that variance is rarely mentioned. Imprecise positional play draws gasps of "bad luck" and "good effort", whereas, at the very highest level, it's the difference between success and failure.

Positional play and mental toughness are SVBs weaknesses. This is why he falls just short of world champion standards - for now. His break and his firepower are what makes him a formidable opponent over long race, winner breaks challenge matches.

Make no mistake about it - there are good, sound reasons why he is not a world champion.
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god you're dense. since I am positive you have never bought a TAR match you have not seen Shane run packages on tight tables. he put down a seven pack on 4 and 1\8th pockets so get back to me when any of your snooker champions do the same. that's 70 balls in order from random layouts.

Shane is 100% world class and you will not get one professional player to say otherwise. if you had any intelligence at all you would know that any player knows that they are always a few rolls away from either winning or losing any major event.
 
actionplayer said:
hence why I said they need time to master those things and it does not take overnight,

I think they are superior cuesits because pool players never have to play a shot 11 feet off the rail into a half sized cut pocket and still get the white to travel 13ft to get back safe on the baulk cushion

not saying pool players couldn't just they don't play those shots so they have developed bad habits like the pictures ron posted of JB
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really? you have never seen a pool player have a long shot into half a pocket and draw the cue ball two table lengths for shape?

I saw Corey do it in one of the Mosconi cups and it was called the shot of the event iirc.
 
JB Cases said:
really? you have never seen a pool player have a long shot into half a pocket and draw the cue ball two table lengths for shape?

I saw Corey do it in one of the Mosconi cups and it was called the shot of the event iirc.
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Ok it doesn't happen often and hence it was the shot of the event. in snooker that is a common shot. judd trump is prob the best at it right now

im not saying being a better cueist makes you a better player but it sure give you a h great head start
 
BJTyler said:
Wow, what a terrible analogy. This quite clearly evidences some deep gaps in your critical thinking skills as well as ignorance of probability and statistics.
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Since you missed it, that was the point. :rolleyes:

JB was inferring that it's the same game no matter the length of the match, when the reality is that the length of the match directly influences a number of critical factors - shot choice, pressure, stamina, concentration etc.

My example was an extreme example of how important the distance is, highlighting how stupid JB's proposition was.
 
ineedaspot said:
I don't agree. I think starting earlier matters. Have there been many (any) pros in golf or tennis that didn't start until 14? Or in snooker for that matter? I've read that John Schmidt didn't start playing pool until he was like 18, and he went on to win the US Open. This is utterly unheard of in tennis or golf (or, I'm assuming, snooker).

And also, the way that kids start matters. Having junior development programs doesn't just mean starting to play early, it means starting to play with proper instruction from the beginning. It also means having a group of peers that also takes the sport seriously and push each other to higher levels. And it means a wider talent base from which the elite are selected.



True, the analogy to the women's game isn't perfect. But still, my guess is that if top snooker pros devoted themselves fully to 9-ball, something similar would happen, though maybe not as dramatic. It's true, as you say, that top 9-ball players play almost perfectly.

But that brings up another problem, which is that 9-ball is too easy for top pros. It's effectively a breaking contest. This actually contributes to snooker players being better, they are playing a more difficult game. Bring the pockets in to 4" or 3.75" even. Then we'd see how perfectly they really play.

I don't know what Steve Davis said. But there are plenty of examples of top snooker players playing decent pro-level pool without even devoting themselves fully. For example, some did well in the IPT. Steve Davis did decently in the WPC a few times. There are others. But has any American pool player ever made a decent showing in any pro snooker tournament? Not to my knowledge. If they could, given the huge disparity in prize money, we'd see it happening.
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there are lots of factors in anyone's development. but I maintain that if we pick an arbitrary number say 10k hours and both players have the same mental demeanor then at that point both will perform about equally on any objective test.

we could go through bios and plot achievements/age any then compare on the graph. until then we are both making assumptions.

I would super high though that there are extremely few shots that SVB can't already do and those which he might not that a snooker player can Shane can master in minutes at best and hours at worst.

I would bet $1000 per shot that there is no shot on any table with pockets that Shane can't master in 24 hours.

also just FYI Shane started at two. but more importantly he practices harder than everyone else.
 
actionplayer said:
Ok it doesn't happen often and hence it was the shot of the event. in snooker that is a common shot. judd trump is prob the best at it right now

im not saying being a better cueist makes you a better player but it sure give you a h great head start
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it is common in pool too. orcullo played one great one in the finals. but if uncommon then it means pool players are even better than given credit for because they have to be able to come with those shots on demand.

Judd trump is a beast.
 
BRussell said:
I guess I don't understand what you're saying. You said "Americans appear to place great emphasis on banking, combos and, especially, safety play, whereas other nations avoid them where possible, preferring precise positional play to eliminate the need for them."

But you say here that "they cannot play them." You need to clarify your pronoun references. Who cannot play what? Americans cannot play position?

And you do call it a "preference." As if those American cowboys like to shoot from the hip, playing combos and caroms, whereas the smart players from "other nations" make a conscious decision to play better position. If only Americans would have this revelation that position play is important in pool...

The fact is, weaker players play poor position and end up needing combos, caroms, etc, more than better players. It's one of the truisms of pool that great players make it look simple. I don't see how that's some kind of national character trait.
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Yawn.

You have cultural traits, same as every other country. It is my observation you are culturally more inclined to emphasise safety play. AFAIK no other culture has developed a game of pool called 'banks'. Your pro players fall down through imprecise positional play, rather than being outgunned or out-thought.

Ultimately, american pool is in the gutter. You are free to come up with your own theories on why this is; mine is poor technique/cueing, leading to poor CB control.
 
Blue Jam said:
Since you missed it, that was the point. :rolleyes:

JB was inferring that it's the same game no matter the length of the match, when the reality is that the length of the match directly influences a number of critical factors - shot choice, pressure, stamina, concentration etc.

My example was an extreme example of how important the distance is, highlighting how stupid JB's proposition was.
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yes because you think a 23 year old KO has less stamina than 31 year old Shane? or because its difficult to play between 30 and 59 games a day?

you know the Taiwanese who famously train intensely for hours a day? those players are too fragile to play a long race?
 
JB Cases said:
yes because you think a 23 year old KO has less stamina than 31 year old Shane? or because its difficult to play between 30 and 59 games a day?

you know the Taiwanese who famously train intensely for hours a day? those players are too fragile to play a long race?
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You're missing the point again, but that's to be expected by now, old chap.

Tell you what I'll play Earl, for 50K, winner breaks, 20 second shot clock, rack your own, as long as I can set the length of the match. You in?
 
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