Pool Myths Explained

[JB Cases]

You will learn more by turning off the pool commentary, and paying attention to what the players are actually doing when watching a pool match.

JoeyA

I like to do this and then go back and watch it again with commentary on.

I think you can't fail to learn when the commentary is on so the idea that you can learn MORE without experts discussing the match is flawed. If the commentary is bad though, not expert or not match focused then better to turn it off if you want to learn.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Tor Lowry tackles the myth "you need to shoot a million balls to be great in pool"
He says you need to shoot a few thousand balls the right way to advance in the sport.

It is a myth to the point of you were to take two novice players, have one practice by shooting balls for eight hours a day, and the other practice for two hours a day with a coach and proper drills, after six months, who will be better in skill?

That would be Great idea for a 14 days mythbuster episode.

 

[JB Cases]

Couldn't you get all of the positive benefits just by "watching" better players play?

In my experience no. Let me explain with a personal anecdote. I played Buddy Hall and that day I played some of the best one pocket of my life. To the point that 12 Squared complimented me and he is generally critical of my game. But Buddy played out of every trap easily and put me into even tougher traps. The way he did it wasn't something that I could have learned by watching him play other players because others players did different things with different responses.

So the important thing for me to learn there was how does Buddy Hall respond to my moves. That's what you get out of a better player when you play them directly as opposed to watching them from a distance. It is a very real in the moment branding on your brain of what to do. Specifically, from Buddy I learned that it is possible to feather balls from anywhere and put the cue ball just about anywhere. Now I still have to practice that and I can say I will will probably NEVER be able to do it like Buddy does witht the same touch and confidence. But I did learn enough to boost my game a little.

 

[BJTyler]

myth

Myth: it is possible to outrun the nuts

 

[miscrewed89]

Tor Lowry tackles the myth "you need to shoot a million balls to be great in pool"
He says you need to shoot a few thousand balls the right way to advance in the sport.

It is a myth to the point of you were to take two novice players, have one practice by shooting balls for eight hours a day, and the other practice for two hours a day with a coach and proper drills, after six months, who will be better in skill?

That would be Great idea for a 14 days mythbuster episode.

I like this idea! I believe if you practice, you must practice right to improve. Otherwise, you will just get better at being bad... (at pool)

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Tor Lowry tackles the myth "you need to shoot a million balls to be great in pool"
He says you need to shoot a few thousand balls the right way to advance in the sport.

It is a myth to the point of you were to take two novice players, have one practice by shooting balls for eight hours a day, and the other practice for two hours a day with a coach and proper drills, after six months, who will be better in skill?

That would be Great idea for a 14 days mythbuster episode.

A few thousand balls to advance is different than a million balls to be great. Since you can't distinguish the difference there, it's obvious what's holding you back. After six months of course the guy with the coach will be a better player. After five years both should be on equal ground, but the self taught guy will know more tricks. He wasn't held back by a coach learning new things.

The worst part about this thread, these isn't a single true myth that has been posted yet. A lot of what is posted is information that was given to a person when they were learning to hold them back. I don't see myths, I see gullible people.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

A few thousand balls to advance is different than a million balls to be great. Since you can't distinguish the difference there, it's obvious what's holding you back. After six months of course the guy with the coach will be a better player. After five years both should be on equal ground, but the self taught guy will know more tricks. He wasn't held back by a coach learning new things.

The worst part about this thread, these isn't a single true myth that has been posted yet. A lot of what is posted is information that was given to a person when they were learning to hold them back. I don't see myths, I see gullible people.

the six months was brought up for experimental purposes but your comment shows how little you know about the approach to the game. Why do you think there are fifty+ year olds who are still B players, but a twenty something can be a world champion? Do you think the twenty something hit more balls?

I'll bet you can find a ton of people who hit a lifetime of balls but can't find A speed. On the flip side, I'll name off many younger players who have had great instruction and on their way to be successful pros.

Tor Lowry and Lee Brett talk about it on their videos. You should give them a try.
Once again, the myth of a million balls is exactly a myth if you are hitting a million balls the wrong way. Youll never reach pro speed without instruction and correction on your mistakes.

 

[Banks]

the six months was brought up for experimental purposes but your comment shows how little you know about the approach to the game. Why do you think there are fifty+ year olds who are still B players, but a twenty something can be a world champion? Do you think the twenty something hit more balls?

I'll bet you can find a ton of people who hit a lifetime of balls but can't find A speed. On the flip side, I'll name off many younger players who have had great instruction and on their way to be successful pros.

Tor Lowry and Lee Brett talk about it on their videos. You should give them a try.
Once again, the myth of a million balls is exactly a myth if you are hitting a million balls the wrong way. Youll never reach pro speed without instruction and correction on your mistakes.

Most peopleprobably won't even reach A-speed with instruction. There are many people out there that have tables at home and have taken lessons. Some people just won't get there, while others will get there without breaking a sweat.

Also, just about anything is easier to pick up on when young.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

the six months was brought up for experimental purposes but your comment shows how little you know about the approach to the game. Why do you think there are fifty+ year olds who are still B players, but a twenty something can be a world champion? Do you think the twenty something hit more balls?

I'll bet you can find a ton of people who hit a lifetime of balls but can't find A speed. On the flip side, I'll name off many younger players who have had great instruction and on their way to be successful pros.

Tor Lowry and Lee Brett talk about it on their videos. You should give them a try.
Once again, the myth of a million balls is exactly a myth if you are hitting a million balls the wrong way. Youll never reach pro speed without instruction and correction on your mistakes.

You're confusing the difference between playing pool for fun and playing pool to improve. That 'B' player is at that rating for the last 50 years because they don't have the drive/desire to become better. Obviously if you want to make false statements and forget what your intentions are, then yes it's easy to cut holes into responses. Were you not implying that the two novices both have a desire to become better? Just one has a coach and one doesn't? Or were you trying to imply that the coach will drive the player to become better? And yes, I flat out believe that twenty something has hit more balls than that eternal 'B' player.

Maybe your math needs some work too. It has been posted before that in 10,000 hours of practice, one should reach 'Pro' status in anything. If we break that down, for a million balls in 10,000 hours(36,000,000 seconds), a ball will need to be shot every 36 seconds to get to a million balls. Now that's just pure practice, no competition. Especially no drills. So unless you're brain dead, the motion of putting a ball into a pocket is simple. One will start noticing patterns of when they miss, and take steps to improve. Those steps to improve may require a little instruction, but a full time coach like you suggest is never needed.

Yes, coaching can help improve you faster as they can find a way to explain things so you don't need to spend several hours breaking through a learning curve. But it is absolutely not required in any shape or form. If you have the desire to get better, you will get better. Now if you have the desire, people will take note and try to help you. But these people giving advice are not coaches. So many false assumptions on your part it's hard to take you serious.

 

[bdorman]

the six months was brought up for experimental purposes but your comment shows how little you know about the approach to the game. Why do you think there are fifty+ year olds who are still B players, but a twenty something can be a world champion? Do you think the twenty something hit more balls?

I'll bet you can find a ton of people who hit a lifetime of balls but can't find A speed. On the flip side, I'll name off many younger players who have had great instruction and on their way to be successful pros.

Tor Lowry and Lee Brett talk about it on their videos. You should give them a try.
Once again, the myth of a million balls is exactly a myth if you are hitting a million balls the wrong way. Youll never reach pro speed without instruction and correction on your mistakes.

The Sweater Kid is correct. I can vouch for it from personal experience...unforturnately from the "60+yr old, struggling to be a "B" player" side of the equation.

Seriously, 98% of the pros I've watched have excellent, traditional fundamentals. Only a few come to mind whose fundamentals are outside the norm: Keith McCready, Tommy Kennedy, some guy who played Efren in a 9-ball finals match who literally swung the cue tip at the ball, and a few others. But traditional fundamentals are clearly the winning ticket for 99.9% of players who want to do well at the game.

BTW, to HAMB you'd have to hit 548 balls a day, seven days a week for the next five years.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

You're confusing the difference between playing pool for fun and playing pool to improve. That 'B' player is at that rating for the last 50 years because they don't have the drive/desire to become better. Obviously if you want to make false statements and forget what your intentions are, then yes it's easy to cut holes into responses. Were you not implying that the two novices both have a desire to become better? Just one has a coach and one doesn't? Or were you trying to imply that the coach will drive the player to become better? And yes, I flat out believe that twenty something has hit more balls than that eternal 'B' player.

Maybe your math needs some work too. It has been posted before that in 10,000 hours of practice, one should reach 'Pro' status in anything. If we break that down, for a million balls in 10,000 hours(36,000,000 seconds), a ball will need to be shot every 36 seconds to get to a million balls. Now that's just pure practice, no competition. Especially no drills. So unless you're brain dead, the motion of putting a ball into a pocket is simple. One will start noticing patterns of when they miss, and take steps to improve. Those steps to improve may require a little instruction, but a full time coach like you suggest is never needed.

Yes, coaching can help improve you faster as they can find a way to explain things so you don't need to spend several hours breaking through a learning curve. But it is absolutely not required in any shape or form. If you have the desire to get better, you will get better. Now if you have the desire, people will take note and try to help you. But these people giving advice are not coaches. So many false assumptions on your part it's hard to take you serious.

So Shane and Mike dechaine taking lessons from Lee Brett is a waste of time? I'm trying to understand your logic here. You are saying if one wants to become a pro they have to hit a million balls? Like you said, the math makes it a very redundant reality. There has to be more than just a million balls. I think you are admitting that in some way, so you proved the million ball myth is just that...a myth. There is a ton more than just hitting balls that goes into learning the game. You are assuming those that believe the myth will take the time to play others, notice patterns, etc.
That's simply not true when you take the statement on face value.
Therefore it's a myth.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

The Sweater Kid is correct. I can vouch for it from personal experience...unforturnately from the "60+yr old, struggling to be a "B" player" side of the equation.

Seriously, 98% of the pros I've watched have excellent, traditional fundamentals. Only a few come to mind whose fundamentals are outside the norm: Keith McCready, Tommy Kennedy, some guy who played Efren in a 9-ball finals match who literally swung the cue tip at the ball, and a few others. But traditional fundamentals are clearly the winning ticket for 99.9% of players who want to do well at the game.

BTW, to HAMB you'd have to hit 548 balls a day, seven days a week for the next five years.

Exactly. That's a huge undertaking 548 balls a day every day for five years.
I forgot to mention Mark Wilson's book. He busts the myth by putting it in hours. Ten thousand hours of institutionalized practice.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

So Shane and Mike dechaine taking lessons from Lee Brett is a waste of time? I'm trying to understand your logic here. You are saying if one wants to become a pro they have to hit a million balls? Like you said, the math makes it a very redundant reality. There has to be more than just a million balls. I think you are admitting that in some way, so you proved the million ball myth is just that...a myth. There is a ton more than just hitting balls that goes into learning the game. You are assuming those that believe the myth will take the time to play others, notice patterns, etc.
That's simply not true when you take the statement on face value.
Therefore it's a myth.

Man you're dumb. If you take two people who have never ever played any type of sport. Put one at home with a table and cue, and put the other one at the pool hall. Which one will learn faster? Obviously the one who has interactions with other players. But what you fail to comprehend is that the maximum skill for both won't be the same. The person at home will be able to learn everything while the one at the pool hall will be held back. They get held back because they listen to other people, and are playing on someone else's table.

You're attempting to imply that one can do nothing but read books and watch videos, use a stroke trainer without ever hitting a ball. And that is all that is needed to become a pro. The best players know that's not possible. It's not possible because no matter how much information they take in, if they have no way to learn what's truly going on they've been held back. You think I'm taking these statements at face value to debate them? I'm speaking from first hand experience on this subject. You can use the HAMB 'method' to become a pro. You do not need a coach to become pro. What you need is mental stimulation. The drive and desire to get better. You degrade me for your inept perceptions of my words, but then turn right around and do the same thing towards HAMB. That's all you think it is, just hitting balls.

Like I said earlier, it's easy to tell why your pool game has been held back. It's your perception of information. Some people need a coach to get better, most don't. So either side of the fence looks different. The person who had a coach still needs to hit the balls. The guy without a coach still needs to hit balls. So guess what, HAMB ain't the method you think it is. Hitting a million balls is part of the path. It's not an end all be all statement that you have decided is a myth. It's another perception of the 10,000 hours. You've needed a coach, and that's why you believe things to be a myth.

A true myth in pool is the college educated 'B' player who hustled his tuition money while in college. They don't exist.

 

[BeiberLvr]

How exactly does a coach or an instructor hold anyone back?

Having an instructor isn't a lifetime endeavor. A player that seeks out instruction will take a few lessons, and then go on their way. After that, they are free to go HAMB. The difference between them and someone who didn't seek out instruction is that they know the right way to HAMB, provided they had a good instructor. Obviously there are instructors out there that do more harm than good, but that's not what this is about.

Whether it's non-personal (DVD's/Books) or personal (coach/instructor), the accessibility of proper instruction is the number one reason (imo) there are more top notch players world wide than there was 50 years ago.

 

[bdorman]

Man you're dumb. If you take two people who have never ever played any type of sport. Put one at home with a table and cue, and put the other one at the pool hall. Which one will learn faster? Obviously the one who has interactions with other players. But what you fail to comprehend is that the maximum skill for both won't be the same. The person at home will be able to learn everything while the one at the pool hall will be held back. They get held back because they listen to other people, and are playing on someone else's table.

Except that the one at home will never know what he's not learning. Heck, go into any bar and see guys who have hit 500,000 balls but have never played a safe; no one ever taught them about safes. How were they supposed to learn it on their own? Divine Intervention?

It's like how they teach math today: let the students "discover" math on their own. As a result, we've got kids who can barely do arithmetic, much less math.

Every individual and society builds on the knowledge of past generations. Trying to figure it out all on your own is a losing proposition.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Except that the one at home will never know what he's not learning. Heck, go into any bar and see guys who have hit 500,000 balls but have never played a safe; no one ever taught them about safes. How were they supposed to learn it on their own? Divine Intervention?

It's like how they teach math today: let the students "discover" math on their own. As a result, we've got kids who can barely do arithmetic, much less math.

Every individual and society builds on the knowledge of past generations. Trying to figure it out all on your own is a losing proposition.

I'd say the overwhelming majority of great players learned the overwhelming majority of the game on their own.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Man you're dumb. If you take two people who have never ever played any type of sport. Put one at home with a table and cue, and put the other one at the pool hall. Which one will learn faster? Obviously the one who has interactions with other players. But what you fail to comprehend is that the maximum skill for both won't be the same. The person at home will be able to learn everything while the one at the pool hall will be held back. They get held back because they listen to other people, and are playing on someone else's table.

You're attempting to imply that one can do nothing but read books and watch videos, use a stroke trainer without ever hitting a ball. And that is all that is needed to become a pro. The best players know that's not possible. It's not possible because no matter how much information they take in, if they have no way to learn what's truly going on they've been held back. You think I'm taking these statements at face value to debate them? I'm speaking from first hand experience on this subject. You can use the HAMB 'method' to become a pro. You do not need a coach to become pro. What you need is mental stimulation. The drive and desire to get better. You degrade me for your inept perceptions of my words, but then turn right around and do the same thing towards HAMB. That's all you think it is, just hitting balls.

Like I said earlier, it's easy to tell why your pool game has been held back. It's your perception of information. Some people need a coach to get better, most don't. So either side of the fence looks different. The person who had a coach still needs to hit the balls. The guy without a coach still needs to hit balls. So guess what, HAMB ain't the method you think it is. Hitting a million balls is part of the path. It's not an end all be all statement that you have decided is a myth. It's another perception of the 10,000 hours. You've needed a coach, and that's why you believe things to be a myth.

A true myth in pool is the college educated 'B' player who hustled his tuition money while in college. They don't exist.

You may call me dumb all you want, but you just proved in your post once again the HAMB myth is just that....a myth. No where did I say you only need videos and a stroke trainer. Go back and re-read my original post. What was the myth being tackled? you are grasping at straws to try to make a point but in reality you just made my point for me. Again.
two players in a basement for five years. one just his a million balls. The other hits 350 k balls with proper instruction, practice methods and recognition of mistakes with time spent correcting them. Which one is better? myth busted.

Your words " guess what, HAMB ain't the method you think it is. Hitting a million balls is part of the path." I absolutely agree!

Im pretty sure you would have to agree with this, which was my original point (some people watch pros and say" if I hit a million balls that's what I'd play like"). The thread is pool related myths. We just busted one of them. Thanks for the back up.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Except that the one at home will never know what he's not learning. Heck, go into any bar and see guys who have hit 500,000 balls but have never played a safe; no one ever taught them about safes. How were they supposed to learn it on their own? Divine Intervention?

It's like how they teach math today: let the students "discover" math on their own. As a result, we've got kids who can barely do arithmetic, much less math.

Every individual and society builds on the knowledge of past generations. Trying to figure it out all on your own is a losing proposition.

Don't confuse subjects. The people that have never played a safe got taught by the best player they knew, their dad most likely. Their dad never competed at the pro level, so he gave bad advice. That's why coaches can be bad. They only know what works for them, and every time they 'teach' someone. It's in their methods. Well their methods are potentially keeping them from being a pro. Granted some pros do teach, but why are they having to teach? Oh right, they don't play well enough to be well enough off.

Hand a kid a rule book and he'll read it. When they have a question, it gets asked and answered. You guys are attempting to say that anyone who advises HAMB or believes in HAMB is too dumb to ask a question here and there. Completely taking HAMB out of context, and claiming only idiots would believe it.

You're comparing apples to oranges, stop it. There is a massive innate way to go about life. One of those things is curiosity. When we get curious we explore to find an answer. When we're unable to get an answer ourselves, we ask questions. You guys seem to believe that someone who is willing to undertake HAMB learning, he is also unwilling to ask questions. You imply idiocy onto the person for even believing such a facet. Is it not you who is the idiot for not understanding the principle they degrade?

Stop trying to say HAMB means there's no contact to the outside world. HAMB is a way to develope the full understanding. If you ask the right questions, anyone can answer them. No need for a coach, teacher, or instructor. Asking the right questions at the right point makes the emphasis of HAMB even more important. I don't know anyone who would say that you can reach pro level play by receiving coaching alone. Besides the 'C' players who still believe there's such thing as a myth in pool.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Im pretty sure you would have to agree with this, which was my original point (some people watch pros and say" if I hit a million balls that's what I'd play like"). The thread is pool related myths. We just busted one of them. Thanks for the back up.

You may not understand it, but the implications from your posts indicate that your perception of HAMB was a lonely method that was devoid of human contact. That's not what HAMB was ever about. HAMB was never about just hitting balls randomly. It's about a targeted goal in mind. Do we need to create and definitive definition on HAMB so your myth-busting can be stopped? It's your perception of what HAMB is supposed to mean that makes you think it's a myth. You've taken quotes and definitions out of context and you think you've had me prove a point? A point you never understood in the first place?

You guys keeping changing the point of the statement. HAMB is not a myth. What is a myth is the ability for people to not be selfish in their arguments. Had you guys even made one valid point, I wouldn't of been able to respond to it. 500,000 balls into HAMB and you assume he's no longer capable of learning? Asinine responses to an absurd understanding of pool. I'd issue a challenge to play if I lived closer to prove my point.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Don't confuse subjects. The people that have never played a safe got taught by the best player they knew, their dad most likely. Their dad never competed at the pro level, so he gave bad advice. That's why coaches can be bad. They only know what works for them, and every time they 'teach' someone. It's in their methods. Well their methods are potentially keeping them from being a pro. Granted some pros do teach, but why are they having to teach? Oh right, they don't play well enough to be well enough off.

Hand a kid a rule book and he'll read it. When they have a question, it gets asked and answered. You guys are attempting to say that anyone who advises HAMB or believes in HAMB is too dumb to ask a question here and there. Completely taking HAMB out of context, and claiming only idiots would believe it.

You're comparing apples to oranges, stop it. There is a massive innate way to go about life. One of those things is curiosity. When we get curious we explore to find an answer. When we're unable to get an answer ourselves, we ask questions. You guys seem to believe that someone who is willing to undertake HAMB learning, he is also unwilling to ask questions. You imply idiocy onto the person for even believing such a facet. Is it not you who is the idiot for not understanding the principle they degrade?

Stop trying to say HAMB means there's no contact to the outside world. HAMB is a way to develope the full understanding. If you ask the right questions, anyone can answer them. No need for a coach, teacher, or instructor. Asking the right questions at the right point makes the emphasis of HAMB even more important. I don't know anyone who would say that you can reach pro level play by receiving coaching alone. Besides the 'C' players who still believe there's such thing as a myth in pool.

Man, you're dumb.

How do you seriously compare a guy getting coached by his [non-pro] dad to receiving lessons from an actual professional instructor?

The ONLY thing you've got right in this entire hi-jack of an argument is that you don't need instruction to become a pro. However, the right (<---key word) instruction certainly doesn't hurt.