Using Reds and Yellows in American 8 Ball?

POVPOOL

POVPOOL

POV Pool
Silver Member
Hey All,
It's long been my belief that, especially for streaming online if the U.S. were to adopt the use of 'reds and yellows' instead of 'solids and stripes' for competition, that the game of 8 ball or as it's referred to in the U.K. 'black ball' would rise again and become a lot more popular here. When watching 8 ball being played on a live stream, there are many cases where solids and stripes are not recognizable.

What do you think?
A waste of time?
Silly?
Un-American?

I figure if there's anywhere that I might get an opinion it's on the great, AZ Billiard Forum!
 
I would think it would be harder to commentate - instead of "he's got a problem with the 6-ball" it would be "he's got a problem with that yellow ball on the end rail, no the other end, no not that one but the one by that red ball, no the other red ball..."
 
BRussell said:
I would think it would be harder to commentate - instead of "he's got a problem with the 6-ball" it would be "he's got a problem with that yellow ball on the end rail, no the other end, no not that one but the one by that red ball, no the other red ball..."
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Yea, I guess it is hard to know what ends up. Foot and head rail and all....
 
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It's a worthwhile idea...as long as it remains as an idea.

The problem is that the 14 remaining pool rooms in the U.S. use stripes and solids and aren't about to invest in new balls for just one game. Viewers/players would be confused: are they playing 8-ball, or is this something else?
 
He's got to shoot the yellow ball in the upper right corner and go two rails and break open the cluster so he can have a shot on that yellow ball. No, not that yellow ball, the one by the other yellow ball next to the two red balls. No, not those two red balls, the other red balls.:eek: I don't know what the audience is confused about, I'm talking about that yellow ball.
 
They tried an 8ball exhibition match between Rodney Morris and Brandon Shuff at the 2012 DCC with reds and yellows, If I remember correctly it wasn't well received by commentators or audience.
 
POVPOOL said:
Hey All,
It's long been my belief that, especially for streaming online if the U.S. were to adopt the use of 'reds and yellows' instead of 'solids and stripes' for competition, that the game of 8 ball or as it's referred to in the U.K. 'black ball' would rise again and become a lot more popular here. When watching 8 ball being played on a live stream, there are many cases where solids and stripes are not recognizable.

What do you think?
A waste of time?
Silly?
Un-American?

I figure if there's anywhere that I might get an opinion it's on the great, AZ Billiard Forum!
Click to expand...

Don't think this will help any with making games more popular to watch. They tried that fancy flashy puck thing in the NHL because they throught people did not watch because it was tough to see the puck, did not do much good and from what I can see it's totally gone.

Then there is(was) Bonus Ball, new game with new teams to bring people into watching.

About the only "new" popular thing that has worked is the increase in 10 ball tournaments and gambling matchups.
 
I think it would be counterproductive. 8 ball is already the most popular game and well know as stripes and solids. As others have stated it would make commentary harder.
 
Calling a ball in a pocket also becomes a little harder.......... You can't just say 12 in the side. You have to point to a ball and then point to a pocket?!?!
 
Reds and yellows was the standard at the (BCA) national 8-ball championships around 1980-1981. I still have a set somewhere, and Aramith still makes them. I think they are called "Casino" balls. The black ball was a regular 8 as I recall.

For TV I think they make seeing patterns easier. As I recall, "call shot" was suspended while they were used.

Curiously, eight ball was first (1925) played with reds and yellows, so in some sense it is the "original, traditional" way to go.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I think it would be counterproductive. 8 ball is already the most popular game and well know as stripes and solids. As others have stated it would make commentary harder.
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A telestrator would be needed, but what we have now is the commentators calling the 4 ball the 5 ball and such.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Reds and yellows was the standard at the (BCA) national 8-ball championships around 1980-1981. I still have a set somewhere, and Aramith still makes them. I think they are called "Casino" balls. The black ball was a regular 8 as I recall.

For TV I think they make seeing patterns easier. As I recall, "call shot" was suspended while they were used.

Curiously, eight ball was first (1925) played with reds and yellows, so in some sense it is the "original, traditional" way to go.
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hmmm, very interesting bit of history there. I can see where it would help with pattern play, showing lanes, and high priority areas. Great food for thought.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I think it would be counterproductive. 8 ball is already the most popular game and well know as stripes and solids. As others have stated it would make commentary harder.
Click to expand...

I think the 'what would commentators do' issue could be easily overcome. Thanks, Bob Jewitt for that bit of history.

I ask this forum, fully expecting the worst and the best of it. For the most part, is seems pool and billiard aficionados are somewhat resistant to change. I suppose that if I were to ask the same question of a non-pool player, a majority might say, "That makes more sense than having numbers on them."

I suppose, if you want to be accommodating, you could have reds and yellows AND put numbers on them...Hell, I guess you could even use reds and yellows and make the reds be stripes and the yellow's be solid. I have however, seen it time and time again, commentators look at a stack and get confused. And if the commentator is confused, then you can almost be certain that the viewer is too.

I guess the real question is... For 8 Ball/Blackball / Do the American ball designs diminish the excitement of the game during broadcast?
 
A couple of things...

Firstly, blackball...The game is called English 8 ball. E8B has quite a few rule variants, of which blackball is one. It is far less common than World rules, or EPA, or the rules played down the Dog and Duck by big Dave and his mates. In fact, the majority of E8B players will not know BB rules, or even have heard of them. BB is growing in popularity and is now used on the pro tour, i believe, but few leagues etc play them afaik. The point is, to call the game 'Blackball' is misleading, even to British players. Far better to call it by its proper name of English 8 ball.

Secondly, no one over here struggles with commentating or following which shots will be taken and in which order. Not saying i think reds and yellows are an improvement or not, but i don't think the objections being put forward have much merit.
 
I'm all for it.

Snooker doesn't use numbered balls, and it has the best commentary of all the cue sports.
 
Sure you could use all red & Yellow balls as long as you put a stripe on the Red's and leave the Yellows as solids. Oh, and don't forget to put big numbers on them as it will be hard to tell them apart as there are so many Red's & Yellow's.

Maybe that's why they make sets with different colors, numbers, and stripes and solids,
just a guess on my part though. :wink:
 
balls

I think maybe it is the shape of the balls that is the problem. Due to the fact that there is no edge definition, the red ball looks like the pink ball sometimes, and if one ball is hidden behind another, forget about figuring out which ball it is. It would be better to change the shape of the balls. Just have all of them be cubes, or maybe different sizes. The edge definition would make it easier to tell the difference.
 
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