Pros playing on bar boxes.....

tksix

tksix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I completely understand the difference between boxes and big tables. This is strictly my opinion.

Watching Shane put an 8 pack on Earl on a bar box this thought came to mind. How many touchdowns would Brady throw in the Arena league?!

Pros should play on 10' tables with tight pockets!! Why? Because they have the talent to do so. They must feel embarrassed playing on bar boxes. What a shame!!

Wish the pocket billiards world would open its collective eyes and see how foolish this looks.

Not at all disrespecting the pros here..... They are doing what they need to do, just wish there was a way for them to do it BIGGER!!

Mike
 
I agree that it is a pleasure to watch the pros on a 10 footer. I think the 10 footer at Steinway is perfect in that the pockets aren't too tight- so guys can still cheat the pocket a bit and attempt difficult shots. Watching Earl vs. Efren on that table on youtube was a treat. It is great to watch Earl really open up his stroke.
 
I think you were watching 'the decider' and it was a race to 30 I believe. While I agree the barbox is easier an 8pack in 8ball is not a common occurrence even with the pros. In many ways 8ball on a barbox is harder then on a 9 or 10 foot table as well. Sure most of the shots are very easy but you have to have pinpoint precision and deal with many more clusters.

I actually like watching 8ball barbox better because of the strategy involved. If I'm watching pretty much any other game I'd rather it be on a 9 or 10 foot table.

Actually... I'd really like to see 15ball rotation played on a barbox by the pros.
 
tksix said:
I completely understand the difference between boxes and big tables. This is strictly my opinion.

Watching Shane put an 8 pack on Earl on a bar box this thought came to mind. How many touchdowns would Brady throw in the Arena league?!

Pros should play on 10' tables with tight pockets!! Why? Because they have the talent to do so. They must feel embarrassed playing on bar boxes. What a shame!!

Wish the pocket billiards world would open its collective eyes and see how foolish this looks.

Not at all disrespecting the pros here..... They are doing what they need to do, just wish there was a way for them to do it BIGGER!!

Mike
Click to expand...

Interesting Thread Brother!

We all know 1 pro that will agree with You, just in case some don't know what pro I am talking about, His first name is Earl and is the all time best 9 ball player!
 
Bar boxes are are a sad joke at that level. The only reason I can think of to have pro level players on bar boxes is to entice and recruit more league players for monetary/business purposes. Its not about whats best for the game, never has been. Bar boxes are about floor space. Thats pretty much why they were created, and why they are still popular..... More tables on a given floor plan equals more money. Especially charging by the game for better players.
Chuck
 
tksix said:
I completely understand the difference between boxes and big tables. This is strictly my opinion.

Watching Shane put an 8 pack on Earl on a bar box this thought came to mind. How many touchdowns would Brady throw in the Arena league?!

Pros should play on 10' tables with tight pockets!! Why? Because they have the talent to do so. They must feel embarrassed playing on bar boxes. What a shame!!

Wish the pocket billiards world would open its collective eyes and see how foolish this looks.

Not at all disrespecting the pros here..... They are doing what they need to do, just wish there was a way for them to do it BIGGER!!

Mike
Click to expand...


The other side of the coin is this- you think they look foolish for fantastic play. So, you would rather watch them miss balls on a larger table. Better to watch pros miss balls, then show just how great they really are.

I think the mere fact that the great ability of the pros to make the game look easy is lost on many. Instead, they actually think the game is as easy as it looks.

Also, what is with so many wanting the pros to miss more balls? Bigger tables, tighter pockets, change the rack. Does it make so many feel better to watch the pros miss too? Is that what it is all about? Diminishing the appearance of the great gap that there actually is between us and them so we can feel better about our own game? Easier to say "See, the pros miss too!"

I really don't "get it". I LOVE seeing packages put down. It showcases the actual talent that the pros do have! Why would anyone NOT want to see that???:confused:
 
Chuck Fields said:
Bar boxes are are a sad joke at that level. The only reason I can think of to have pro level players on bar boxes is to entice and recruit more league players for monetary/business purposes. Its not about whats best for the game, never has been. Bar boxes are about floor space. Thats pretty much why they were created, and why they are still popular..... More tables on a given floor plan equals more money. Especially charging by the game for better players.
Chuck
Click to expand...

What you call a joke, I call showcasing talent. For the pros, they have to tighten up all the more on a bar box because they know what even one mistake will cost them! At pro level, you have to play near perfect pool or you lose! What a showcase of who really has the talent!
 
Neil said:
The other side of the coin is this- you think they look foolish for fantastic play. So, you would rather watch them miss balls on a larger table. Better to watch pros miss balls, then show just how great they really are.

I think the mere fact that the great ability of the pros to make the game look easy is lost on many. Instead, they actually think the game is as easy as it looks.

Also, what is with so many wanting the pros to miss more balls? Bigger tables, tighter pockets, change the rack. Does it make so many feel better to watch the pros miss too? Is that what it is all about? Diminishing the appearance of the great gap that there actually is between us and them so we can feel better about our own game? Easier to say "See, the pros miss too!"

I really don't "get it". I LOVE seeing packages put down. It showcases the actual talent that the pros do have! Why would anyone NOT want to see that???:confused:
Click to expand...

I have to agree. Although I'm not a personal fan of barbox play (which, if we take it away, we'd take away BigTruck's source of income! ;) ), I do appreciate the level of play I see when pros play on them. The delicate touch of sheer cue ball control is exquisite. Granted, to stroke afficionados it's "bunt pool," but there is an art to a precise touch and precision in navigating small windows.

I use to bash barbox play not too long ago as well, because I thought the play was constrained by coin-op play. Then, one year while vacationing with my folks out in Lakewood, Colorado, I went to Greenfields Sports Bar which is a local APA haunt, which I knew had only barboxes, but for the short distance, I had no choice. It was within walking distance, and I felt like having a beer or three. ;)

Well, the night I went, they had "open table night" -- which basically meant they unlocked the side of every table and everyone got to play for free for the whole night.

This pushed my "anti-coin-op" bias aside, because now I was free to play any game I wanted -- including ones that required spotting balls, etc.

I started lining up the pints of Guinness, and went to work setting up for some 14.1 practice. Set up a break ball, and ka-blam! Rack after rack, and I was having a blast. Ended up having a 140+ run that night, and I was enjoying it the whole time. (It's nice to let your hair down on your fundamentals every once in a while, and feel free to whack 'em with reckless abandon even on the most ridiculous of breakshots that you'd never attempt on a big table.) I stumbled out of there that night, but smiling ear to ear. That was the most fun I had playing pool in a l-o-n-g time!

So, I have a "tip o' the hat" nod to bar tables for that kind of experience.

-Sean
 
Neil,

I don't want to see them miss balls. And yes there is a huge gap in talent from them to us. The point is Shane on a bar box is like Tiger Woods playing from the women's tees at your local park district course. Not challenging at all, and a mockery of their talent.

As far as pin point position on a bar box... Yes you need it. But, ANY shot can be made on a box especially with a pro shooting them!!

I am no where near Shane, Earls or any high ranking amateur players level and I have put a five pack on someone on a bar box.

Bar boxes are the great equalizers.

Mike
 
tksix said:
I completely understand the difference between boxes and big tables. This is strictly my opinion.

Watching Shane put an 8 pack on Earl on a bar box this thought came to mind. How many touchdowns would Brady throw in the Arena league?!

Pros should play on 10' tables with tight pockets!! Why? Because they have the talent to do so. They must feel embarrassed playing on bar boxes. What a shame!!

Wish the pocket billiards world would open its collective eyes and see how foolish this looks.

Not at all disrespecting the pros here..... They are doing what they need to do, just wish there was a way for them to do it BIGGER!!

Mike
Click to expand...

Two thoughts:

1. If they are winning money… I'm sure they aren't embarrassed… and many of the best paying tournaments right now are on the bar table…. white diamonds, smoking aces, etc….

2. What people don't understand is that the challenge of bar table pool is that the other guy isn't going to miss either.. Pro's playing Pro's on a bar table increases the pressure of every shot because you may not get to shoot again for 6-8 games if you miss. Every mistake is a little more costly because of the small equipment.

Its kind of like a free throw competition.. They are an easy shot… but if you are shooting for 10K against someone that shoots 90% consistently its a lot harder:).
 
I don't remember the AZer's name who has this in his sig, but it goes something like this:

9-ball on a barbox with a Magic Rack isn't a game, it's a drill.
 
more tables

Chuck Fields said:
Bar boxes are are a sad joke at that level. The only reason I can think of to have pro level players on bar boxes is to entice and recruit more league players for monetary/business purposes. Its not about whats best for the game, never has been. Bar boxes are about floor space. Thats pretty much why they were created, and why they are still popular..... More tables on a given floor plan equals more money. Especially charging by the game for better players.
Chuck
Click to expand...

Certainly money is a factor.

But without bar tables, there would be far fewer opportunities for people to play the game.

Mosconi promoted bar tables for this reason...not that he preferred them, but because they would be great for the average player. He was right. Without bar tables there would be far fewer people playing, especially in leagues...and big national amateur events would not be practical.
 
Neil said:
The other side of the coin is this- you think they look foolish for fantastic play. So, you would rather watch them miss balls on a larger table. Better to watch pros miss balls, then show just how great they really are.

I think the mere fact that the great ability of the pros to make the game look easy is lost on many. Instead, they actually think the game is as easy as it looks.

Also, what is with so many wanting the pros to miss more balls? Bigger tables, tighter pockets, change the rack. Does it make so many feel better to watch the pros miss too? Is that what it is all about? Diminishing the appearance of the great gap that there actually is between us and them so we can feel better about our own game? Easier to say "See, the pros miss too!"

I really don't "get it". I LOVE seeing packages put down. It showcases the actual talent that the pros do have! Why would anyone NOT want to see that???:confused:
Click to expand...

Agreed. And I would add to this that I believe it is important for the general pool public to see pros play on equipment they can relate to. Nobody out there is playing on 10s, so they can't begin to understand the skill they are seeing when the pros do it. I'm not advocating for bar tables - people who know me will tell you that I often skip good tournaments that I have a chance of winning simply because I don't like playing on the box - but I believe it makes more sense to have the pros play on bbs than it does to have them on 10s.

Most serious pool players I know believe that we need more stringent standards on professional equipment - if you are in that camp, then you must know that throwing 10s into the mix is only stirring up sediment in waters that are way too muddy to begin with. Hell, it's already so bad that you can't even tell how strong a a package was without qualifying it with year/make/model of pool table, pocket size, shelf depth, type of cloth and how tight it's stretched... it's ridiculous, and I see no reason to complicate it further by throwing in equip that no room owner is going to buy.

Aaron
 
I guess there are no stats for pros playing on bar boxes vs big tables. I would imagine the stats are pretty close. Pros already shoot at a high percentage no matter what table they play on. So it comes down to position and safety play. So maybe on a bar box the may go for a shot where on a big table they may just play safe. Maybe more bank attempts are tried on a bar box. No everyone plays on big boy tables. Either way. It's still pool any any table has their nuisances. " pro should play on 10 for tables" guess that makes 9 ft table easy as well.
 
The pressure players must face playing on a bar box must be greater than on a 10 foot table. When shane laid down the 8 pack on Earl, I can only assume he was thinking make this a huge pack, otherwise Earl will put a huge pack on me. Its quite an odd situation to be in I would imagine.

The pro game is of such a standard that their positional skills can dictate leaving a long shot or a short shot. So, whether its a 10 foot table or a 7 foot table, the average shot length wouldn't be that much greater.

I feel the professionals should be playing 10 ball on a 12ft table. It will bring a greater skill set into the game. Players will have to learn to shoot opposite handed, rest play will become a must, you will face the dilemma of leaving a long pot, or get close and have to use the rest. Whilst I have great admiration for players like Shane who can put in big packages, I do find it dull to watch. If I pay for a stream, or pay for tickets, I want to be seeing both players play. A 12 foot table would achieve this. There would be more misses, but not by a massive amount. It would separate the good from the great imo.
 
I disagree about pro's only playing on big tables..or bigger than standard tables, 10 foot. I think 10 foot tables are novelty and not true to traditional pool or the game as it's been played for many years. I like watching the pros on a bar box(Diamond especially) because I love to see near perfect pool. I see enough misses on league night when WE play on Diamond bar boxes. So I want to see this! I mean what's next, a 16 foot Snooker table to challenge Ronnie O'Sullivan, A 200 yard football field to challenge the NFL players, a 240 yard soccer field to challenge the English Premier League soccer players? Where does it stop? The pro's make it look easy because they are out of this world good....amazing!! I love to watch them not miss personally. Go watch that 75 -0 Van Boening put on Klatt on that APA rules game...Tell me that's not awesome!
 
I would love to see the top pros play rotation on a bar table. The cue ball positioning required to runout would need to be even better than on a big table.
 
Interesting debate so far! I agree with creating standards for professionals, that can be achieved on 9' as well and not a 10' table. The thought of the 10' table is not see them miss, but to truly see how talented they are. Yes, just like Ronnie playing on 12' table he makes it look easy, and no I don't want him on a 16' table.

But we are going backwards in my opinion. Full size tables for the pro's is what we need and tables to specific standards. I'm not suggesting that they never play on a box, but as of late this is all I see. So back in the early 1900's it was 10' tables, then they moved to 9' tables, Mosconi made his run on a an 8' table, now everything is 7' tables. To me it just seems backwards.
 
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