Pool Myths Explained

The proof is clear -- Earl has been getting the vast majority of the bad rolls in his matches for 40 years.


I was sitting behind Earl's chair at the last Turning Stone. After a dry break, he sits down, turns around, looks me right in the eye and tells me, "I get more bad rolls than anybody. And you know why? I used up all my luck years ago. I'm all out now." Lol

What a character! But, MAN, can he bring it when he wants to. :cool:
 
I rarely get kicks or skids. Pretty sure I can count the number of times on one hand I've had them in the 12 years I've been playing.

Which leads us to only two possible conclusions.

1. I play as good as Hendry
2. Your opinion on the subject is incorrect.

I'll let you decide which of those is more plausible.

And you play pro snooker do you?

:rolleyes:
 
Players in form don't have better luck. That's another myth. It's possible that getting lucky gives a psychological boost that results in better form, which is not the same thing.

"Prove me wrong."

Umm, it doesn't work that way. You're the one putting forward strange and implausible theories, the burden of proof is on you.

No it isn't. This thread is about busting myths, isn't it? If you think it's a myth players in form get the most luck, prove it.

You can't, so you won't.

And there's not a single non brit on this thread who knows jack shit about snooker, the PROFESSIONAL arm of cue sports.

Anyway, when's barton back, so the zombies can claw at him instead. :rolleyes:
 
I wish we could delete the last few useless pages of this thread and replace them with your quoted statement. Then we could wait for a plausible theory (if there is one) to explain the untested and unfounded anecdotal claims. And in the meantime, meaningful discussion concerning other myths could take place.

In other words, good post!

Regards,
Dave

You make me laugh. Would you tell stephen hendry and ronnie o'sullivan their testimony regarding kicks is wrong? Really?

They appear pretty damn tested to me. You set out to prove chalk can cause kicks, and you succeeded. Bravo.
 
And you play pro snooker do you?

:rolleyes:

Was that the best you could come up with?

The obvious answer is no I don't play pro [any cue sport], and do not cue anywhere near as good as that hack Steven Hendry.

Yet I hardly ever get kicks when playing.

So what does that mean? It means your hero doesn't know squat.

Maybe you should get yet another alias and call yourself HendryLvr if you're going to hang on every word he says.


:angel2:
 
You make me laugh. Would you tell stephen hendry and ronnie o'sullivan their testimony regarding kicks is wrong? Really?

They appear pretty damn tested to me. You set out to prove chalk can cause kicks, and you succeeded. Bravo.

Pathetic stuff.

You still haven't even outlined HOW a badly hit CB causes kicks/bad contacts/skids. Forget about providing evidence, you haven't even presented your hypothesis.
 
No it isn't. This thread is about busting myths, isn't it? If you think it's a myth players in form get the most luck, prove it.

You can't, so you won't.

And there's not a single non brit on this thread who knows jack shit about snooker, the PROFESSIONAL arm of cue sports.

Anyway, when's barton back, so the zombies can claw at him instead. :rolleyes:

They have small balls, and they like to play on very large tables to feel better about missing. Did I miss anything?
 
They have small balls, and they like to play on very large tables to feel better about missing. Did I miss anything?

Don't forget that slop is allowed and you don't have to hit a rail for it to be a legal shot.

They should do like to make such an easy game sound hard.
 
When I first started playing, the concept of "squirt" or deflection was not even known or discussed. I guess we all just thought that cue ball curve (now swerve) and throw (now spin induced throw) were all that were involved, and couldn't understand why, if we changed cues, we missed routine shots. Squirt was the missing link. Dave's slow motion video's clearly show these effects and many more.

Many players thought sidespin alone caused the cue ball to swerve, which is not exactly true.

Back hand English was being taught by instructors for cash as a "pool secret". I'm sure they didn't even understand why it might work, or why it didn't work in some cases. Again I thought it was a scam. Although I don't use it, Fred and Colin Colesco are the one's who got me to pay attention to it and realize there is something to this technique if understood and done properly. Watching Colin play with it clearly showed me it was a different technique entirely from what I was using.

I considered fractional aiming systems to be rubbish. Dave collected aiming system info which more or less legitimized the subject. There were enough advocates to make me recognize that these systems can and do help.

Cue ball cling (or just a lot of contact throw) was once considered a necessary evil and sometimes blamed on the stroke itself. Now we know that spin helps reduce or eliminate cling and gives us one more reason to practice playing with English.

In a thread I started a few weeks ago in the 14.1 Forum, I offered that Byrne's Standard Book (1978) might have led me astray by not clearly or accurately addressing cue ball deflection (squirt). Inasmuch as I (rightly or wrongly) considered his book (published pre-pool video age, let alone pre-Internet age) to be the bible, I wondered whether others might have concluded that they, too, missed the aiming boat somewhat due to an understanding of cause and effect that was founded on reading Byrne's Standard Book. There were a few interesting replies, mostly focusing on the question of whether Byrne's teachings might be more accurate in the pre-Simonis era. In any event, here is the link to the thread, followed by my opening post. I'd be interested in any further thoughts on the subject (as it relates to Myths -- not trying to hijack this thread).

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=379764

Perhaps this belongs in the Main Forum, but inasmuch as Byrne's Standard Book of Pool and Billiards is oriented more toward straight pool than other games, I thought I'd post here. I'm also a straight pool guy.

I learned to play in, and, until recently, had played only in, the 1979-1981 time frame, and the first and only book that I read at that time was Byrne's Standard Book. I came away from reading it with the thought that right English would throw the ball to the left, and vice versa. Accordingly, as an example, on a straight in shot where I wanted the cue ball, after contact with the object ball, to travel forward and to the left of the normal line of aim, I figured that I should aim left of center and put high right English on the cue ball. The right English, I thought, would throw the object ball to the left, compensating for the new line of aim which was intended to create some angle and avoid a scratch. I might have subconsciously considered the possibility of some curve to the right, had I been stroking the cue ball slowly. Never did I consider the phenomenon of deflection that I now, in my second, 35 yrs. later return venture into playing pool, have come to understand. Now, when applying high right English, I aim more at the center of the object ball, trusting deflection to cause the cue ball to veer to the left of my line of aim (thus creating angle), and then trusting throw (spin) to put the cue ball back onto a path into the pocket. After recently learning about deflection, I figured that back when I first began to play, I must simply have failed to pick up on this effect of English. I also concluded that my past misses on longer (in terms of distance of cue ball travel prior to impact with the object ball), faster shots with English were now more understandable to me. (By the way, I have always played with a standard maple shaft.)

I recently took one of my son's friends to the pool room that I frequent, and saw that he could benefit from learning some basics about English. I told him that I would find Byrne's book on my shelves and loan it to him. When I pulled it off the shelf, I decided to re-read what he had written about English. I was intrigued to discover that he had emphasized gear effect and curve, and had barely addressed deflection (which he calls "squirt"). In fact, "squirt" isn't directly discussed until one gets to Book Two ("THREE-CUSHION BILLIARDS"). Further, in Book One ("POOL"), there is a page (p. 45, "A frequently missed shot") on which Byrne describes and diagrams a cue ball struck with high right English veering to the right as a result of curve, while never mentioning "squirt." He does say, on p. 43 ("Allowing for curve"), that "On a very hard stroke the cueball has no time to curve at all -- in fact, it may "squirt" in the opposite direction (see p. 264)," but when one reads p. 264 (which is in Book Two on three cushion billiards), one reads that it is a phenomenon that comes into play on "length-of-the-table shots that must be struck hard with maximim English," and he closes by saying that "Many players are unaware of it . . . it is, admittedly, seldom a significant factor." (Ellipses in original). The discussion on p. 85 ("Throwing an object ball at a distance") also makes no mention of deflection, but cautions that the shooter must account for curve.

I must say that I felt a little better about my long-standing ignorance regarding deflection, and the magnitude of its effect as compared to the effect of curve. Byrne's Standard Book didn't really give it enough emphasis, I don't think. Or am I missing something? Ironic, if I can use that word, is Byrne's preface to his largely deflection-devoid section on throw, in which he states, "The following explanation of throw shots is the most complete ever to appear in print. Certain hustlers are going to hate me for spoiling the beans."

Did Byrne discuss deflection more/differently in his "New Standard Book," or other, later writings? Has my observation about his 1978 Standard Book been made by others? Again, am I missing something? From other (web resource) readings, I gather that cue ball deflection is considered to be a more significant consideration than cue ball curve (other than when the cue ball travels at a slow speed), and my own (recent) experience is consistent with these other readings.

I am in no way trying to bash Byrne's 1978 book, which is wonderful in so many ways.

Thanks in advance for anyone's input.
 
Don't forget that slop is allowed and you don't have to hit a rail for it to be a legal shot.

They should do like to make such an easy game sound hard.

Flukes are rare - not easy to fluke a ball on a vast table with tiny pockets. There are good reasons both for and against hitting a cushion. A foul in pool is generally ruinous, which is not necessarily the case at snooker.

I can only assume you have never played snooker. Your opinions might change a bit if you did.
 
Pathetic stuff.

You still haven't even outlined HOW a badly hit CB causes kicks/bad contacts/skids. Forget about providing evidence, you haven't even presented your hypothesis.

What does the 'how' matter? That it DOES is the only important thing. Regardless, the how has been pointed out several times in this thread already. That you don't understand the how is unfortunate. When you play well enough to know good cueing from bad, you know the 'how'.
 
Was that the best you could come up with?

The obvious answer is no I don't play pro [any cue sport], and do not cue anywhere near as good as that hack Steven Hendry.

Yet I hardly ever get kicks when playing.

So what does that mean? It means your hero doesn't know squat.

Maybe you should get yet another alias and call yourself HendryLvr if you're going to hang on every word he says.


:angel2:

I have clearly stated, several times, the issue with poor cueing being the primary cause of bad contacts is a pro snooker issue, and not applicable to hacks on beer stained pool tables.

Got it?
 
I have clearly stated, several times, the issue with poor cueing being the primary cause of bad contacts is a pro snooker issue, and not applicable to hacks on beer stained pool tables.

Got it?

There you go! Beer stains prevent kicks!
 
You make me laugh. Would you tell stephen hendry and ronnie o'sullivan their testimony regarding kicks is wrong? Really?

They appear pretty damn tested to me. You set out to prove chalk can cause kicks, and you succeeded. Bravo.

From http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof :

"Burden of proof" or in Latin, onus probandi, is the obligation that somebody presenting a new or remarkable idea has to provide evidence to support it.

In the (Ab)use section it goes on to give the example:

Often, someone will present a new idea and say that it must be accepted because it cannot be disproved. This is insufficient because without evidence there is no reason to accept an idea, even if there is no contrary evidence. One example is that of a simulated reality, which proposes that the human race does indeed live in The Matrix and we are a computer simulation. There is no evidence against this idea, in fact, it may be impossible to fully disprove, but as there is no real evidence for it there is no reason to accept the idea as real.

I think this might be relevant to the discussion and no, I've never played snooker.
 
I would feel really bad if this thread got closed....
...so lighten up, you guys.
This topic should be a mutual exploration where we can all benefit.

A good thread to subscribe to, it makes one think.


Got lots more areas to look into.....
...like the myth that call-shot ten-ball adds skill to the game.
 
I got some quality instruction and improved my game substantially in the last 5 years.

Now often when I defeat someone whom I historically have not been able to I hear "you have a table at home".

I have had a table at home for over 30 years. :)

JC
 
Hit one ball per minute for two hours a day, five days a week and it will take you more than 32 years to HAMB.

Even then, without proper instruction, and yes, a natural ability and affinity for pool, you still might not reach a B level. That describes me.

I've spoken to BCA Hall of Famers, such as Hopkins and Fleming. They each ran over 100 balls after having played pool for only about one year, without ever having taken a single lesson!
 
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