Corey and Shane got reprimanded??? Not sure.

Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not looking to start arguments, just want to see if I came away with the same conclusion as others....

Yesterday during the final match, Corey and Shane vs Darren and Grey, Corey was left snookered on the seven ball, and Shane walked over and measured out the kick and pointed to the spot on the rail. Corey told him to back away and took the shot, kicking off the rail and cutting the seven in (I'm pretty sure it was seven ball) and they got out.

Right afterwards, the ref went over to Shane and said something....I couldn't make it out, but the production went to the players mic and Shane was heard saying "they never told me that", and Corey said "that's teamwork".

Did the ref warn Shane that partners can only coach strategy but can't measure shots out for the other? What is the official rule, and did anyone else see this or am I imagining things?

To me it seemed fair in partners matches to do what they did.
 
Yeah i heard exactly that when i watched it .
It was the 7 ball near the top left pocket which was snookered by the 8 ball .
Shane did measure out the path but i wouldnt see whats wrong in doing that for a doubles match .
 
Yes, I saw that. I didn't think they got warned. I just thought that Corey remarked it was team work. I know they can't mark anything by leaving say a chalk cube in a strategic location or stand there pointing to a location while partner is shooting. If they violated something, then touching the cloth with a cue where you want your partner to leave the CB should also be against the rules.

Interesting question.

Al
 
On that shot...was Corey trying to kick it in the left corner (as he did) or the right corner (as Jerry had thought)?
 
It starts at about the 30 min. mark in the following video:

http://youtu.be/MYsSv5-Fhmc?t=30m1s

They had cut away for a replay, so something happened that we didn't see, and then Shane went to the ref and said something that sounded like "I can't put my hand on the table?" and the ref shook his head "no" and then said something else.

It did look like Shane kept his finger there while Corey was getting down on the shot, and then Corey kind of waved Shane away before he shot it. I could understand that you're not allowed to hold your finger on a kick point while the player is shooting.

And yeah I don't think that's what Corey was trying to do. I think he was trying to stop the cue ball there, but overcut it. It looked like that's what they were laughing about at the end of the match. Shane asked Corey if he meant to make it, and Corey shook his head "no" and laughed.

(But all of that is just guesses based on hearing snippets and watching body language, and may not be accurate.)
 
DionBakasushi said:
Yeah i heard exactly that when i watched it .
It was the 7 ball near the top left pocket which was snookered by the 8 ball .
Shane did measure out the path but i wouldnt see whats wrong in doing that for a doubles match .
Click to expand...

Did you see the ref go over to Shane after the rack and say something too? That's what I saw but the volume wasn't high enough so I don't know if what was said could be heard.
 
Corey played the shot perfectly into the pocket he intended. Poor Jerry misses so many calls It's nearly laughable.

With the shot Jerry was thinking, the scratch was almost automatic and was an inexperienced shot selection on Jerry's part.

Darren Appleton is a classy guy and you could tell by the bit of smirk on his face after Corey and Shane were making the teamwork comments that Darren most likely knew that helping to measure shot's is not the kind of teamwork they allowed.

Yet, Darren nor Mark made a peep.
 
ssbn610g said:
The measurements were intended to pocket the ball in that corner.

Al
Click to expand...

In which corner? It looked like the contact point that Shane picked wouldn't have pocketed the ball in the corner that Corey made it in, but it was for a stop shot on the cue ball.
 
There is a rule, you cannot lay your stick down on the table and walk away from it using it as a measurement.

This might be under that rule ?
 
BRussell said:
It starts at about the 30 min. mark in the following video:

http://youtu.be/MYsSv5-Fhmc?t=30m1s

They had cut away for a replay, so something happened that we didn't see, and then Shane went to the ref and said something that sounded like "I can't put my hand on the table?" and the ref shook his head "no" and then said something else.

It did look like Shane kept his finger there while Corey was getting down on the shot, and then Corey kind of waved Shane away before he shot it. I could understand that you're not allowed to hold your finger on a kick point while the player is shooting.

And yeah I don't think that's what Corey was trying to do. I think he was trying to stop the cue ball there, but overcut it. It looked like that's what they were laughing about at the end of the match. Shane asked Corey if he meant to make it, and Corey shook his head "no" and laughed.

(But all of that is just guesses based on hearing snippets and watching body language, and may not be accurate.)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. I just re watched it. Clearly Shane measures out for the cut into the corner pocket because his tip is on the far side of the ball. It would have been unwise to measure for the kick into the opposite corner because the scratch is there if the cue ball connects with the left side of the seven.

Shane does say "they never told me that"
Corey replies "that's what teamwork is for"

So I believe the ref told Shane he can Mark the shot with his finger. But players Mark the leave with their cue and so on. So I don't see why he can't do that.
 
BRussell said:
It starts at about the 30 min. mark in the following video:

http://youtu.be/MYsSv5-Fhmc?t=30m1s

They had cut away for a replay, so something happened that we didn't see, and then Shane went to the ref and said something that sounded like "I can't put my hand on the table?" and the ref shook his head "no" and then said something else.

It did look like Shane kept his finger there while Corey was getting down on the shot, and then Corey kind of waved Shane away before he shot it. I could understand that you're not allowed to hold your finger on a kick point while the player is shooting.

And yeah I don't think that's what Corey was trying to do. I think he was trying to stop the cue ball there, but overcut it. It looked like that's what they were laughing about at the end of the match. Shane asked Corey if he meant to make it, and Corey shook his head "no" and laughed.

(But all of that is just guesses based on hearing snippets and watching body language, and may not be accurate.)
Click to expand...

Corey hit the shot the way he intended. Shane measured that for him using a technique for aiming rail first shots; he lays the cue perpendicular edge of OB, pulls back equal distance to mirror image on the rail for the aim spot. That's where he put his finger. FTR, partners can't mark the shot like that in any set of rules I'm aware of, not surprised they got warned. Corey knew this, that's why he waived Shane off before he pulled the trigger.
 
oldzilla said:
There is a rule, you cannot lay your stick down on the table and walk away from it using it as a measurement.

This might be under that rule ?
Click to expand...

Incorrect if using BCA rules.
1-3 f.
f. You may use your cue, held in your hand or not, to help align a shot. You
may use your cue and hands to measure angles and distances for bank
shots and kick shots. No other cues, bridges or equipment may be used.
 
Ky Boy said:
Corey played the shot perfectly into the pocket he intended. Poor Jerry misses so many calls It's nearly laughable.

With the shot Jerry was thinking, the scratch was almost automatic and was an inexperienced shot selection on Jerry's part.

Darren Appleton is a classy guy and you could tell by the bit of smirk on his face after Corey and Shane were making the teamwork comments that Darren most likely knew that helping to measure shot's is not the kind of teamwork they allowed.

Yet, Darren nor Mark made a peep.
Click to expand...
Two great observations you made.
Yes exactly it would've been a scratch if Jerry s shot was attempted. Also look at how Shane puts the tip of his cue past the seven on the far side, that was the intended destination hence the cut on the seven.

Also the fact that Darren and Mark were silent was a great observation. It shows they are classy players and it was pure pool knowledge that pulled that shot off. The had to respect that.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Thanks for the link. I just re watched it. Clearly Shane measures out for the cut into the corner pocket because his tip is on the far side of the ball. It would have been unwise to measure for the kick into the opposite corner because the scratch is there if the cue ball connects with the left side of the seven.

Shane does say "they never told me that"
Corey replies "that's what teamwork is for"

So I believe the ref told Shane he can Mark the shot with his finger. But players Mark the leave with their cue and so on. So I don't see why he can't do that.
Click to expand...

Marking a leave spot for a preferred follow-on shot is very different than marking an aim spot for the shot at hand.
 
Are there any official parters rules for helping to line up a shot and pointing where to hit at the pro level for partners?

I know there are coaching rules for leagues that allow or dissallow those depending on the league and what you do, but for pro level parters don't think there is anything. I'm sure the regular rules for marking shots apply, but if you are playing singles you can put your hand on the table to point to where you want to go and on the rail also, so why not your partner?

Would be nice to see what rules they have laid out for partner matches. You can clearly see that talking between them is allowed at any point. Anyone have a copy of the Mosconi Cup Rulebook? Is there one?
 
BRussell said:
In which corner? It looked like the contact point that Shane picked wouldn't have pocketed the ball in the corner that Corey made it in, but it was for a stop shot on the cue ball.
Click to expand...

That is definitely where Shane wanted Corey to pocket that Shot. He is the best in the world at. He makes that shots from places you don't think it is possible to do it.
 
BRussell said:
In which corner? It looked like the contact point that Shane picked wouldn't have pocketed the ball in the corner that Corey made it in, but it was for a stop shot on the cue ball.
Click to expand...

The contact point on the cushion that Shane pointed out was exactly the point to hit in order to pocket the 7 ball in the corner.
 
West Point 1987 said:
Marking a leave spot for a preferred follow-on shot is very different than marking an aim spot for the shot at hand.
Click to expand...

There wasn't any permanent marking going on, just pointing out. It's the same thing unless there is a rule that differentiates the two.

If he left his finger there, I can see the discrepancy, but it was coaching which is allowed.
Like the poster above asked, are there a mosconi cup set of rules for match play?
 
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