OK, let me tell you why you're all wrong...

Floppage

Floppage

True Beginner
Silver Member
The billiards academy I am enrolled in will sometimes ask that students contribute an article to one or more publications. Usually it's in the form of an instructional article on form, strategy or something like that. However, in my case it turned into an op-ed explaining what I think is wrong with pool and how to fix it.

Yeah, I know...

There is something profoundly obnoxious about someone new to a sport coming in and telling everyone how to fix it.

So, without further adieu I will submit myself to the ridicule of my forum peers.

http://www.sneakypetemafia.com/welcome-to-pool-its-dying-so-dont-get-comfortable-kyle-eberle-2/

Oh, and in addition to being an obnoxious know-it-all I am also really long-winded so they couldn't print the full version. Just in case you're really bored you'll find it here.

http://www.chicobilliards.com/Solution
 
Your argument is what I've been preaching on AZB since I joined a few years ago. Maybe it's because I'm new to the sport also. But that's a good thing: it takes a Man From Mars to say "earthlings, why are you killing each other?"

I've been involved in promoting numerous professions and hobbies and I've found one constant: Beginners pay the bills!
 
bdorman said:
Your argument is what I've been preaching on AZB since I joined a few years ago. Maybe it's because I'm new to the sport also. But that's a good thing: it takes a Man From Mars to say "earthlings, why are you killing each other?"

I've been involved in promoting numerous professions and hobbies and I've found one constant: Beginners pay the bills!
Click to expand...

I am not sure why pool has been slow to figure this out. In the full version of that op-ed I explain that it is pool communities that would really make the difference. The reality is that new money spends easier than old money.

The sports that have really capitalized on this have an ongoing effort to bring in new people all the time. The idea is that you may only keep a small percentage but unless you do some things to cater to them, you wouldn't have gotten those people at all.

Pool needs an image make over. The pool sharks and hustlers won't ever go away but we don't need to glorify them quite so much.
 
You make some very valid points. There are many many production cue makers out there which turn out a good product that are being financially supported by newbies in the bar leagues. It is unfortunate that many of the newbies meet such resistance. As you pointed out in your instance that wasn't the case. I am back in the game several months now after a decades long layoff away from it. I was lucky enough to find a poolroom nearby that welcomes and encourage players of all skill levels. The regulars, of which I am one now, have made me fell welcome. I will admit I love the lore of the action poolroom and it can be found in my poolroom or any poolroom.
May I suggest you start hitting the poolrooms not the bars. I bet if you continue to play in these poolrooms you will eventually become welcomed and you will gain an incredible amount of pool knowledge just by watching the really good players in these poolrooms.
 
Nicely written and you make some really good points. Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed it.
 
Great article! Welcome to this wonderful sport of ours. I agree that the image of pool could be better in the eyes of Americans, and it's going to take a lot of work from all of us.

I believe having good instructors that respect the sport can help tremendously, and also providing opportunities for children to learn - away of the drinking and the gambling.
 
Floppage ------ BRAVO! Insight and perspective from a fresh vantage point - nicely done! We are paying attention :-)



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nicely written

Nice read and good job on the article. I agree with your points and would like to add a few myself.

Pool is hard and takes a lot of time and practice to be able to achieve even the slightest of accomplishments. For example, my wife has always played a little bit. but I have gotten her her own cue and some lessons and she plays league once a week. She has gotten better and is becoming better but she is still light years away from running a rack on the 9 footer maybe even on a bar box diamond there is no way she can break and run. So for someone to come in to pool and expect to be great has something else coming and lets face it having fun always means being half way decent.

Also she has begun taking guitar lessons and that is more enjoyable to her although she says guitar is harder, which it is not, I believe it is more fun and enjoyable because it is not as difficult.

Another thing is pool is played in smoke filled rooms, mostly, rather that is a pool hall or a bar here in Oklahoma you will be forced to be around smoke. That is awful in my opinion. Also here in Ardmore, Ok there is not a place where a young student, someone under 21 or 18 even, can go and play on a decent table where someone is going to show them how to play.

We need to develop pool in the School system so that kids who are not as athletic as basketball players or baseball or football have an outlet and can enjoy playing a game for the entire life.

Just my 2 cents again great article.
 
ceodynamo said:
Nice read and good job on the article. I agree with your points and would like to add a few myself.

Pool is hard and takes a lot of time and practice to be able to achieve even the slightest of accomplishments. For example, my wife has always played a little bit. but I have gotten her her own cue and some lessons and she plays league once a week. She has gotten better and is becoming better but she is still light years away from running a rack on the 9 footer maybe even on a bar box diamond there is no way she can break and run. So for someone to come in to pool and expect to be great has something else coming and lets face it having fun always means being half way decent.

Also she has begun taking guitar lessons and that is more enjoyable to her although she says guitar is harder, which it is not, I believe it is more fun and enjoyable because it is not as difficult.

Another thing is pool is played in smoke filled rooms, mostly, rather that is a pool hall or a bar here in Oklahoma you will be forced to be around smoke. That is awful in my opinion. Also here in Ardmore, Ok there is not a place where a young student, someone under 21 or 18 even, can go and play on a decent table where someone is going to show them how to play.

We need to develop pool in the School system so that kids who are not as athletic as basketball players or baseball or football have an outlet and can enjoy playing a game for the entire life.

Just my 2 cents again great article.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with your wife. I took violin lessons starting in my 20's for more than 9 years and it was a lot easier to start than pool and I don't think many people will tell you violin is easy. The difference was that it was geared toward beginners. Granted, there weren't many adult beginners but the materials, methods and facilities were all structured to make it easy to get started.

I definitely agree on the smoke filled pool rooms. Although smoking isn't legal in the rooms here, the bar and general atmosphere is not very inviting to families or new people. I went to a pool hall in Salem, OR earlier this year that didn't serve alcohol and was surprised to see it packed with families and teenagers. I know that booze pays the bills at most bars and pool just keeps them there but for pool to survive and even become successful there will need to be more friendly places to play and practice.

I also agree with getting to kids. First, getting kids involved will get families involved. Pool would be a great way for families to spend time. Second, a teen league would give pool halls more business in those hours between school getting out and the regulars showing up after work. Golf courses and tennis clubs learned that lesson years ago.

Thank you for reading the article and the feedback.
 
the pool academy when i was learning to play was the 3 dollar game with a player better than you. you received help from better players by demonstrating your grit and determination to be a better pool player and by also just sitting and watching the better players play. you also learned what to do and not to do from the rail birds as they commented on the games played.

i have nothing against schools, videos, and such if that is how you or anybody else wants to "learn" the game but nothing and i mean nothing teaches a player who wants to get better than having your hat handed to you in an atmosphere that is often times highly critical of the loser. it maybe unpopular in today's society that wants and expects immediate gratification but that is not the nature of pool. it can be a very difficult game.

about "the grinding into dust" the players and aspects of the game that you deem undesirable or 'bad' for the game; remember these aspects of the game diehard because of the way the players learned a game they truly love.
 
Floppage said:
The billiards academy I am enrolled in will sometimes ask that students contribute an article to one or more publications. Usually it's in the form of an instructional article on form, strategy or something like that. However, in my case it turned into an op-ed explaining what I think is wrong with pool and how to fix it.

Yeah, I know...

There is something profoundly obnoxious about someone new to a sport coming in and telling everyone how to fix it.

So, without further adieu I will submit myself to the ridicule of my forum peers.

http://www.sneakypetemafia.com/welcome-to-pool-its-dying-so-dont-get-comfortable-kyle-eberle-2/

Oh, and in addition to being an obnoxious know-it-all I am also really long-winded so they couldn't print the full version. Just in case you're really bored you'll find it here.

http://www.chicobilliards.com/Solution
Click to expand...

Fine article, but let me help with some disambiguation.
There is private pool, and public pool ( which includes pro pool).

Pro pool is broken, but public pool in general is suffering as well, due to a number of reasons that are independent of pro pool.

Private pool is fine with the exception of sales being down for overall economic reasons; people are still a little tight with the wallets because of the recession, but this too shall pass.

Back to pro pool, the road to recovery, as you mentioned, will not be paved by a flash in the pan movie or whiz bang tourney, but at the same time, I do not feel that "pro pool" should recover/rebuild from the " bottom up" per say.

Is bringing new, younger players into the sport crucial to the future?
Yes. Absolutely 100% without a doubt.

However, introducing millions of kids into a sport with no real organization, men's association, standard rules, standards of dress and behavior, or decent paychecks...is to lead millions of kids down a path to nowhere.

Start at the top and create a career path that is worth a damn, and the students of the game will line up to jump aboard, with the full support of family and friends. Raise the damn bar for Pete's sake!
 
I used to be a competitive distance runner. Payouts for that are worse than pool precisely because it isn't on tv.

Your old picture of kids in a pool hall - those were most likely news boys. During the depression kids instead of going to school sold newspapers and spent their money in places like pool halls. They tended to be some pretty tough kids. The kids in that picture weren't straight A students who stopped at the pool hall on their way to church. Today's kids are spending their money on video games. Give them a choice of a ps4 or a pool table for Christmas they are going to take the ps4.

Most of the pool halls which have survived for a long time have done so by selling alcohol and food and do a pretty good job of getting rid of the bad actors but it isn't, wasn't and won't be church. But if you think you have the perfect business model nobody is stopping you from opening a pool hall and running it however you see fit. Good luck.
 
You got it right!

ceodynamo said:
Nice read and good job on the article. I agree with your points and would like to add a few myself.

Pool is hard and takes a lot of time and practice to be able to achieve even the slightest of accomplishments. For example, my wife has always played a little bit. but I have gotten her her own cue and some lessons and she plays league once a week. She has gotten better and is becoming better but she is still light years away from running a rack on the 9 footer maybe even on a bar box diamond there is no way she can break and run. So for someone to come in to pool and expect to be great has something else coming and lets face it having fun always means being half way decent.

Also she has begun taking guitar lessons and that is more enjoyable to her although she says guitar is harder, which it is not, I believe it is more fun and enjoyable because it is not as difficult.

Another thing is pool is played in smoke filled rooms, mostly, rather that is a pool hall or a bar here in Oklahoma you will be forced to be around smoke. That is awful in my opinion. Also here in Ardmore, Ok there is not a place where a young student, someone under 21 or 18 even, can go and play on a decent table where someone is going to show them how to play.

We need to develop pool in the School system so that kids who are not as athletic as basketball players or baseball or football have an outlet and can enjoy playing a game for the entire life.

Just my 2 cents again great article.
Click to expand...

T=Your right, the game is so hard o play at a high level, that's way APA is important for the starters. I don't play league, but I watch them all the time and that's where we all have to put some time in, just showing some APA or beginner a shot or two to keep them feeling good about the game, the environment and their potential.
 
Good points!

Floppage said:
The billiards academy I am enrolled in will sometimes ask that students contribute an article to one or more publications. Usually it's in the form of an instructional article on form, strategy or something like that. However, in my case it turned into an op-ed explaining what I think is wrong with pool and how to fix it.

Yeah, I know...

There is something profoundly obnoxious about someone new to a sport coming in and telling everyone how to fix it.

So, without further adieu I will submit myself to the ridicule of my forum peers.

http://www.sneakypetemafia.com/welcome-to-pool-its-dying-so-dont-get-comfortable-kyle-eberle-2/

Oh, and in addition to being an obnoxious know-it-all I am also really long-winded so they couldn't print the full version. Just in case you're really bored you'll find it here.

http://www.chicobilliards.com/Solution
Click to expand...

Well said, I hope someone with influence lessons and can help, Mark Wilson?
 
alstl said:
I used to be a competitive distance runner. Payouts for that are worse than pool precisely because it isn't on tv.

Your old picture of kids in a pool hall - those were most likely news boys. During the depression kids instead of going to school sold newspapers and spent their money in places like pool halls. They tended to be some pretty tough kids. The kids in that picture weren't straight A students who stopped at the pool hall on their way to church. Today's kids are spending their money on video games. Give them a choice of a ps4 or a pool table for Christmas they are going to take the ps4.

Most of the pool halls which have survived for a long time have done so by selling alcohol and food and do a pretty good job of getting rid of the bad actors but it isn't, wasn't and won't be church. But if you think you have the perfect business model nobody is stopping you from opening a pool hall and running it however you see fit. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I never made it beyond regionally competitive in distance running but the payouts are better than the ones I hear about in pool. How many pool tournaments pay the winner anything close to the $150k you get for winning the Boston Marathon? And running pays out a lot more in sponsorships than pool does. You can actually make a living as a professional distance runner but making it as a professional pool player is a stretch.

I didn't add that picture in the article, the site did. I agree that it's old but it does at least touch on the idea of kids playing pool. If you read the full version of the article I think you'll see that my solution has more to do with fostering pool communities than opening a pool hall for kids. Although, getting a teen league going would be a great way to create future players.

I don't think the right business model for pool is just opening up the next Family Billiards. I believe the right business model starts with changing how pool communities approach pool. Small changes in leagues or tournaments, encouraging new players, finding ways to make it more approachable and to a wider range of people. That's the start. If you increase the number of new people then it will make opening family friendly pool establishments more financially feasible. In many ways, the best people to fix pool are the people on this forum in the way they interact with new pool players.

Maybe I don't have the best solution but at least it's something.
 
That is very well written and very insightful... good points all around. Thanks for the read!

I'll add that in a country with diminishing "pool halls" there may be an opportunity for members-only billiard clubs to rise.
 
Everybody's wrong and your solution is to just get new people in to spend money? That's no more of a solution than saying McDonald's is suffering, so all they need are new customers to spend money.

How? Where? Why? Those are questions you need to ask to arrive at a real solution that you can implement.

I wish somebody would've told the folks at the bar last night that pool was dead.. I could barely get a game in until about midnight - on a Tuesday night, too. Could be that pool was just dead at the other bars.

Bigger tournaments are still a good idea, they're a sign of life and a big seller to any venue. Just because the cart is broke doesn't mean you shoot the horse.
 
Banks said:
Everybody's wrong and your solution is to just get new people in to spend money? That's no more of a solution than saying McDonald's is suffering, so all they need are new customers to spend money.

How? Where? Why? Those are questions you need to ask to arrive at a real solution that you can implement.

I wish somebody would've told the folks at the bar last night that pool was dead.. I could barely get a game in until about midnight - on a Tuesday night, too. Could be that pool was just dead at the other bars.

Bigger tournaments are still a good idea, they're a sign of life and a big seller to any venue. Just because the cart is broke doesn't mean you shoot the horse.
Click to expand...

I elude, although briefly, at the solution in the full version.

As I see it, the solution is to embrace the concept of billiards communities better. That's a vague statement because it's tough to get a handle on everything that entails. For starters, charity tournaments and handicapped leagues. It would also be nice to see more billiard academies with proven content and courses.

However, on a day to day basis we can all do more to encourage beginners. If you have an opening on your league team consider inviting a beginner even if that means you won't make the playoffs. When you go to a big tournament, encourage other players from your area. How how about the next time you see or hear a jaded, experienced player making fun of or sharking someone new how about just telling them to knock it off.

We all have the ability to make pool more approachable by a new group of players. And yes, the turnover on new players will be high but even if you only get a 5% retention rate that still more new players than you would have had without adopting that strategy.

The fact is that more pool players probably die every year from old age or bodily neglect than new players take up the sport. (no real numbers here, but my observation) So doing nothing to encourage new players is the equivalent of just waiting for pool to go extinct.
 
What do you use as a reference to the state of pool? Pros not being on tv. Pool halls closing. They are completely different entities of the state of pool as a whole. I don't have number but it's seems leagues get larger every year. Seem more products are being created and sold. More companies which means more people being emplyed. Pool is growing every year. Pros have their own issues. Taxes and regulations may be why pool halls close. Or it can be competition of entertainment. Or it can be management. So many reasons why a lot of small businesses go under. Maybe I am wrong but every time I see a new production cue company start up. Make me think pool is doing well.
 
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