OK, let me tell you why you're all wrong...

[Floppage]

Most bars don't care, nor could many employees explain the right rules. They've already got their hands full with orders, drinkers, etc. Some pool halls may be able to help, but half of the people out there couldn't give helpful advice if their lives depended on it.

Sorry, man, but I really don't see anything more than.. "this is what they should do and it would be awesome." There's nothing of substance to explain how it could happen, how it could be sustainable and why it would benefit all involved. Once you have to balance out the bottom line, it changes a lot.

Look around at your next league night. From what I've seen, the A and AA players more often than not are drinking iced tea, water or cheap beer. Maybe it is so they can keep clear heads or maybe its just because they are in a pool bar 6 nights a week and it's too expensive to drink the good stuff. Maybe both. Look at the beginners. They're there to have fun. They order doubles, and good beer and fries because what the hell, it's their fun pool night. If they do come in on a non-league night there's a good chance they will bring a friend or two and they will all drink beer and miss shots while ordering food, etc. For bars, beginners mean a whole new crop of customers. Certainly enough to justify an additional investment in equipment or training for staff.

If pool halls that didn't serve alcohol catered to families and a larger audience they'd find their tables busy on hours they normally expected to be dead.

Distance races learned years ago that having the race expo the day before the event got a ton of people both participants and their family and friends to come buy stuff. Race expos have guest speakers, autograph areas, huge merchant demo areas where people can try out new products. Pool tournaments have it even better. With a captive audience between games they are definitely not making the most of that time. Other than Las Vegas, which tournaments cater to the manufacturers that way? Not many. Why? There simply aren't enough people. If pool spends more time appealing to beginners they will find more of those people showing up to watch tournaments providing a large consumer base for products.

I could keep going but at some point either you see how new money spends easier than old money or you don't. Its an area I have experienced first hand in other areas and until proven wrong I don't see how pool couldn't benefit from the same marketing strategies employed by other industries.

 

[Henry W]

Very well written article Kyle and I play pool in Chico on Saturday but do not participate in the tournaments or league as they are not my cup of tea. I may be a member of the dark side of pool you mention as I prefer to match up and play for money to tournaments. I don't think I have ever met you but I have seen your posts on facebook and have a lot of respect for your passion for the game. You talk about the camaraderie you have with the local players in Chico. I have been around for 20 years and there is something unique going on in Chico and that is Jackie Karol and her skills as a teacher and promoter. I have been around pool for 40 years and she is something special that not every pool community has. I travel around a little just got back from LA and the 2 strongest pool communities I know of are Chico and Medford Ore. Keep your passion and keep writing. Maybe we will meet in person one of these Saturdays. You also have a great pool room owner at the Oasis who has seen the value of Jackie and having good equipment. The pool scene in Chico is one of the few places that has a bright future and will attract people like you which we need. I doesn't matter your skill level what matters is you love the game.

 

[Floppage]

Very well written article Kyle and I play pool in Chico on Saturday but do not participate in the tournaments or league as they are not my cup of tea. I may be a member of the dark side of pool you mention as I prefer to match up and play for money to tournaments. I don't think I have ever met you but I have seen your posts on facebook and have a lot of respect for your passion for the game. You talk about the camaraderie you have with the local players in Chico. I have been around for 20 years and there is something unique going on in Chico and that is Jackie Karol and her skills as a teacher and promoter. I have been around pool for 40 years and she is something special that not every pool community has. I travel around a little just got back from LA and the 2 strongest pool communities I know of are Chico and Medford Ore. Keep your passion and keep writing. Maybe we will meet in person one of these Saturdays. You also have a great pool room owner at the Oasis who has seen the value of Jackie and having good equipment. The pool scene in Chico is one of the few places that has a bright future and will attract people like you which we need. I doesn't matter your skill level what matters is you love the game.

Thanks. I agree that a big part of the pool community in Chico is Jackie and everything she brings to it. If you ask her, she'll tell you she's not playing as well as she may have a few years ago but I think her contribution to pool has gone well beyond her titles. There are other students of hers, just like me, who have come to love pool. It is proof that you can package pool in a fun, positive way and attract new people to it without necessarily undermining the "dark side" that others enjoy.

It has been suggested to me by Tom that I come down and watch you play on Saturdays. I need to do just that. I have heard it is a hell of an education in one pocket.

 

[Banks]

Look around at your next league night. From what I've seen, the A and AA players more often than not are drinking iced tea, water or cheap beer. Maybe it is so they can keep clear heads or maybe its just because they are in a pool bar 6 nights a week and it's too expensive to drink the good stuff. Maybe both. Look at the beginners. They're there to have fun. They order doubles, and good beer and fries because what the hell, it's their fun pool night. If they do come in on a non-league night there's a good chance they will bring a friend or two and they will all drink beer and miss shots while ordering food, etc. For bars, beginners mean a whole new crop of customers. .

Look around me? I hang out at a bar, I've captained teams, I'm usually on at least one apa team and have started an inhouse bca night. I also put my own $ on the line to get diamond tables.

All you're doing is speaking in very general terms. Market, get people, be nice, etc. Nothing that I've read is anything specific, has no costs involved and could be applied across the board for any business. This is pool. How do you fund, organize, put on, staff and market a charity tournament that gets primarily beginners? How about setting up the league that's built to suit everybody? Corporate events? Staff that can, and have time to, substitute as instructors? The list is pretty long and none of those questions have been addressed directly.

I'm at the bar a lot and I'm not exactly rich. Cheap beers and shots still add up very fast when you consider the price bars charge is about 3x cost and that doesn't include a tip!

 

[Floppage]

Look around me? I hang out at a bar, I've captained teams, I'm usually on at least one apa team and have started an inhouse bca night. I also put my own $ on the line to get diamond tables.

All you're doing is speaking in very general terms. Market, get people, be nice, etc. Nothing that I've read is anything specific, has no costs involved and could be applied across the board for any business. This is pool. How do you fund, organize, put on, staff and market a charity tournament that gets primarily beginners? How about setting up the league that's built to suit everybody? Corporate events? Staff that can, and have time to, substitute as instructors? The list is pretty long and none of those questions have been addressed directly.

I'm at the bar a lot and I'm not exactly rich. Cheap beers and shots still add up very fast when you consider the price bars charge is about 3x cost and that doesn't include a tip!

I'm not questioning your contribution to your local pool community. It sounds like you have done a lot.

I wish I could hand you a business plan to back all of this up but I just don't have one.

What I do have is empirical evidence. I have seen the kind of impact a good instructor and a beginner friendly environment has on a pool community. I have also seen communities of similar size and demographics where the leagues are limping along and the pool bars few and empty. From what I've heard there is more of the second type then the first. And the Chico pool community is still growing and evolving.

I have also seen what happened to different sports that switched gears and became more beginner friendly. Businesses like Fleet Feet and Golf Galaxy didn't exist when running was for hard-core punishment junkies and golf was for middle aged men firming up business deals. When you expand your customer base a lot of things can happen.

My guess is that what it will take to make a successful pool community will depend on the community. Is that vague? Yes, it is. But how about starting to look at pool from a community perspective? Start looking for ways to be in the community more. It seems like every school, civic group and church in every area is selling cookie dough and holding car washes. Why not find one and suggest a pool tournament instead. They will do most of the recruiting for you and all you need to offer is the location, free table time and your expertise. What you might get out of it is one or two people who want to try playing again. Maybe that example doesn't work for you but it's the kind of thinking that needs to start sneaking its way into all of our thinking. How can we extend our pool communities? How can we play a more active role in it? What have I done to encourage a beginner?

 

[Baxter]

Thanks. I agree that a big part of the pool community in Chico is Jackie and everything she brings to it. If you ask her, she'll tell you she's not playing as well as she may have a few years ago but I think her contribution to pool has gone well beyond her titles. There are other students of hers, just like me, who have come to love pool. It is proof that you can package pool in a fun, positive way and attract new people to it without necessarily undermining the "dark side" that others enjoy.

It has been suggested to me by Tom that I come down and watch you play on Saturdays. I need to do just that. I have heard it is a hell of an education in one pocket.

Come on the wrong Saturday and all you'll see is him giving away his money playing me 9-ball.

 

[Baxter]

Fwiw, I agree with a lot of your points Kyle, but one thing I don't agree with is your view on gambling or "the dark side" of pool as you call it. Gambling is a big part of pool in America and an even bigger part of the history of pool in America. I don't believe that should be shunned or disregarded. Action is what gives pool it's charm and character. Now I understand that the view point on gambling is different from a beginner to an experienced player. From a beginner's perspective, it can seem that gambling in pool is a scary endeavour full of people that are just waiting to take your lunch money. And there are some of those types out there, but more often than not it's not that cutthroat. I gamble in friendly games with people I respect, nothing malicious about it. It helps me stay sharp and puts the pressure on me I need to bring out my best game. The idea of playing for money scared the shit out of me when I first picked up a cue though.

 

[Floppage]

Fwiw, I agree with a lot of your points Kyle, but one thing I don't agree with is your view on gambling or "the dark side" of pool as you call it. Gambling is a big part of pool in America and an even bigger part of the history of pool in America. I don't believe that should be shunned or disregarded. Action is what gives pool it's charm and character. Now I understand that the view point on gambling is different from a beginner to an experienced player. From a beginner's perspective, it can seem that gambling in pool is a scary endeavour full of people that are just waiting to take your lunch money. And there are some of those types out there, but more often than not it's not that cutthroat. I gamble in friendly games with people I respect, nothing malicious about it. It helps me stay sharp and puts the pressure on me I need to bring out my best game. The idea of playing for money scared the shit out of me when I first picked up a cue though.

I don't have anything against gambling, Leland. I just don't think you have to do anything to encourage or foster it. Regardless of what pool does to try and appeal to the mainstream, gambling will continue to be a part of it. The PGA couldn't get rid of skins games if it wanted to and I doubt it even does. However, they don't advertise it either.

Pool won't lose any of its charm by being marketed to a wider audience. As beginning players get better they will naturally be curious about that aspect of pool and seek it out.

Many of the players from the "dark side" (not my term, by the way) probably won't feel comfortable at a pool tournament to help raise money for a new cancer wing at the hospital with people dressed in silly costumes, singing Karaoke and where raffle prizes are given out and the winner's payout non-existent. To them that will feel silly and probably even a waste of their time. However, soccer moms, first timers and local business owners might find that a much less threatening way to experience pool. And if they like that they might join an in-house league and if they like that maybe take some lessons and buy a cue and so on.

Some players will always be drawn to the Minnesota Fats version of pool. The idea of the wandering gambler hustling from bar to bar. I doubt that image will ever go away and those people seeking that can always find it. (or just go over to CJ Wiley's challenge thread)

My comment about pushing aside the jaded old-timers was not to imply that they should be discouraged from playing at all. Its a free country and pool will always have a place for all types of players. My comment was simply that if they can't be part of the solution they should at least stop discouraging new players.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

Fine article, but let me help with some disambiguation.
There is private pool, and public pool ( which includes pro pool).

Pro pool is broken, but public pool in general is suffering as well, due to a number of reasons that are independent of pro pool.

Private pool is fine with the exception of sales being down for overall economic reasons; people are still a little tight with the wallets because of the recession, but this too shall pass.

Back to pro pool, the road to recovery, as you mentioned, will not be paved by a flash in the pan movie or whiz bang tourney, but at the same time, I do not feel that "pro pool" should recover/rebuild from the " bottom up" per say.

Is bringing new, younger players into the sport crucial to the future?
Yes. Absolutely 100% without a doubt.

However, introducing millions of kids into a sport with no real organization, men's association, standard rules, standards of dress and behavior, or decent paychecks...is to lead millions of kids down a path to nowhere.

Start at the top and create a career path that is worth a damn, and the students of the game will line up to jump aboard, with the full support of family and friends. Raise the damn bar for Pete's sake!

That's more of a chicken and egg scenario and doesn't necessarily lead to conclusive points of direction.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

The billiards academy I am enrolled in will sometimes ask that students contribute an article to one or more publications. Usually it's in the form of an instructional article on form, strategy or something like that. However, in my case it turned into an op-ed explaining what I think is wrong with pool and how to fix it.

Yeah, I know...

There is something profoundly obnoxious about someone new to a sport coming in and telling everyone how to fix it.

So, without further adieu I will submit myself to the ridicule of my forum peers.

http://www.sneakypetemafia.com/welcome-to-pool-its-dying-so-dont-get-comfortable-kyle-eberle-2/

Oh, and in addition to being an obnoxious know-it-all I am also really long-winded so they couldn't print the full version. Just in case you're really bored you'll find it here.

http://www.chicobilliards.com/Solution

NICE ARTICLE...
...SO.
1. You have successfully introduced yourself.
2. You have identified key areas of 'the problem' very well and offered some possible answers.
3. Do you know how to address 'the problem' or how to implement your own answers?

Just PM'd you Kyle. :thumbup:

 

[Scaramouche]

Angels Needed - Recruiters Required

Bing Crosby and Bob Hope met for the first time at the Friars Club and shot some pool.
But Crosby didn't start a pool tournament, he started a golf tournament at Pebble Beach: The Crosby Clambake.

Private money and corporate leadership create major sporting events.
Look at horse racing, tennis, golf, sports teams that usually lose money.

CEOs who like to hobnob with athletes push their companies to sponsor their favourite sports.

In the art of cold calls, the ideal method is to start at the highest level of the corporation, then work your sales calls down through the ranks so that you can drop the names of superiors when you are lining up the pigeon.

Get a CEO on board and the CEO will promote pool to employees and acquaintances, and to the Board. :grin:

 

[Floppage]

NICE ARTICLE...
...SO.
1. You have successfully introduced yourself.
2. You have identified key areas of 'the problem' very well and offered some possible answers.
3. Do you know how to address 'the problem' or how to implement your own answers?

Just PM'd you Kyle. :thumbup:

I replied with some implementation ideas.

However, more than my ideas I hope what my little op-ed does is get people talking, arguing, fighting or whatever it takes to start thinking outside of the box. I truly believe that pool could be made accessible to a lot more people and not in any way that detracts from what existing players like about it. Well, ok...maybe pool halls will be a little busier but that will only be until we get more pool halls.

 

[Floppage]

Angels Needed - Recruiters Required

Bing Crosby and Bob Hope met for the first time at the Friars Club and shot some pool.
But Crosby didn't start a pool tournament, he started a golf tournament at Pebble Beach: The Crosby Clambake.

Private money and corporate leadership create major sporting events.
Look at horse racing, tennis, golf, sports teams that usually lose money.

CEOs who like to hobnob with athletes push their companies to sponsor their favourite sports.

In the art of cold calls, the ideal method is to start at the highest level of the corporation, then work you sales calls down through the ranks so that you can drop the names of superiors when you are lining up the pigeon.

Get a CEO on board and the CEO will promote pool to employees and acquaintances, and to the Board. :grin:

I like that approach a lot. Even at a local level, I have seen Jackie's team building workshops create new players for pool. In fact, we played against a team from a local business a couple of weeks ago that didn't exist before one of those events. Getting companies (and CEOs) interested in pool would be a great way to expand.

Also, I like the idea of more celebrity events. Look at what celebrity involvement did for poker. However, increasing pool's visibility only works if once a new person does take interest there is a support mechanism to fuel that at a local levek. Getting interested because you saw a celebrity tournament but then trying it locally only to be met with an ambivalent or even unfriendly pool community will squash that enthusiasm pretty fast.

 

[ceodynamo]

Pool in school

If you had a, for example Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, pool team in High School and even in Middle School you could be introducing kids to pool at a young age and give them an interest so that later in life they could play league, enter tournaments, socialize and have fun. Then all you're doing is creating more customers and players.

It's no different than someone playing baseball then going to college, trade school or just working out of high school and playing recreational Softball. The idea of the old timer saying "these kids need to be in the pool hall getting there butts beat on the table so they learn how to be competitive and learn that life is hard and is not supposed to be easy" blah blah blah.... I competed in wrestling, CC and Track and Field those sports taught me to be tough and keep my grades so I can get a job or have an opportunity for a career later in life. I'm sorry old man but times have changed there is no reason to unnecessarily bring hard ships on anyone.

Mark Wilson runs the Lindenwood Pool School program, I am sure he would love to be able to come to Oklahoma State High School Pool Tournament and look at the talent coming out of high school and give a scholarship or two. WOW what an idea giving kids an opportunity to go to COLLEGE and PLAY POOL!

If I would have known I could have gone to college on a scholarship to play pool, I would have continued to play pool instead of wrestling or running track. Both of which do nothing financially or socially for me any more.

Not every one of these kids is going to be the next SVB but there will definitely be someone who rises to the top. Overall you would get young people playing pool who would continue to play pool late into their lives. Which in turn helps the pool business.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[poQet trainer]

the family friendly argument is dead. obviously that was tried and failed. pool needs to accept what it is and embrace it wholeheartedly, it's a competitive sport, there's no second place trophy. you need to have incentive to compete and get better, and family fun won't do it. accept that you need to be a killer to be the best, be genuine about it. MMA is so popular because its family friendly right. F THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop being a bunch of sissys and throw a effing punch.

 

[Floppage]

the family friendly argument is dead. obviously that was tried and failed. pool needs to accept what it is and embrace it wholeheartedly, it's a competitive sport, there's no second place trophy. you need to have incentive to compete and get better, and family fun won't do it. accept that you need to be a killer to be the best, be genuine about it. MMA is so popular because its family friendly right. F THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop being a bunch of sissys and throw a effing punch.

I was one of those runners from the late 80's/early 90's who worshiped at the feet of Steve Prefontaine and believed it should always be a blood and guts sport. Then the jog walkers, soccer moms and Oprah marathoners showed up in matching outfits and changed all of that. The hard core runners are still there and still have their events but the industry as a whole has grown much, much bigger and couldn't care less about the segment who feels like you have to bleed to win.

If manufacturers, communities and event organizers decide to go after beginners they will find out pretty fast just how powerful new money can be. Pool tried family friendly in the past but only at a superficial level and without developing real communities or respecting the symbiotic relationship between manufacturers, event organizers and local leagues and tournaments.

Nothing is going to eliminate the dark pool room hustler image and players will always gamble. However, the ones who try to resist or discourage pool from being marketed to a larger audience will be largely ignored and find out pretty fast what kind of buying power beginners really have. Trust me when I say you don't want to be on the tracks when the family friendly train comes through.

 

[Floppage]

If you had a, for example Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, pool team in High School and even in Middle School you could be introducing kids to pool at a young age and give them an interest so that later in life they could play league, enter tournaments, socialize and have fun. Then all you're doing is creating more customers and players.

It's no different than someone playing baseball then going to college, trade school or just working out of high school and playing recreational Softball. The idea of the old timer saying "these kids need to be in the pool hall getting there butts beat on the table so they learn how to be competitive and learn that life is hard and is not supposed to be easy" blah blah blah.... I competed in wrestling, CC and Track and Field those sports taught me to be tough and keep my grades so I can get a job or have an opportunity for a career later in life. I'm sorry old man but times have changed there is no reason to unnecessarily bring hard ships on anyone.

Mark Wilson runs the Lindenwood Pool School program, I am sure he would love to be able to come to Oklahoma State High School Pool Tournament and look at the talent coming out of high school and give a scholarship or two. WOW what an idea giving kids an opportunity to go to COLLEGE and PLAY POOL!

If I would have known I could have gone to college on a scholarship to play pool, I would have continued to play pool instead of wrestling or running track. Both of which do nothing financially or socially for me any more.

Not every one of these kids is going to be the next SVB but there will definitely be someone who rises to the top. Overall you would get young people playing pool who would continue to play pool late into their lives. Which in turn helps the pool business.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I like the idea of seeing pool in schools more. Not every child is well suited for sports. I ran in jr. high, played football in high school and rugby in college. What I got from being part of a team in all three over shadowed the physical benefits. Offering pool in the form of a team sport (and it can be a team sport too) would give that experience to kids who don't necessarily find more athletic events appealing.

Almost nothing is lost adding to a person's interests and skills. I agree that most kids would not ever be professional pool players but they would potentially pick up a new activity they could enjoy for the entire lives and potentially find a new social circle to belong to in school.

 

[ceodynamo]

I like the idea of seeing pool in schools more. Not every child is well suited for sports. I ran in jr. high, played football in high school and rugby in college. What I got from being part of a team in all three over shadowed the physical benefits. Offering pool in the form of a team sport (and it can be a team sport too) would give that experience to kids who don't necessarily find more athletic events appealing.

Almost nothing is lost adding to a person's interests and skills. I agree that most kids would not ever be professional pool players but they would potentially pick up a new activity they could enjoy for the entire lives and potentially find a new social circle to belong to in school.

Exactly!

And on another note, having pool in school is not creating a family environment its creating an opportunity for new people to play pool and increase the playing time someone has who is not 18 or 21. There is not a place to play pool in Ardmore, Ok unless you are 21 and no kid is ever going to be good when they start playing at 21!

 

[LAlouie]

The billiards academy I am enrolled in will sometimes ask that students contribute an article to one or more publications. Usually it's in the form of an instructional article on form, strategy or something like that.

Why does this sound intrinsically stupid

 

[CJ Wiley]

Is it Human Nature to run from our strengths and nurture our weaknesses?

In a recent online "think tank poll" 1000 random people were polled and only 2% said they would watch pool UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...it didn't matter how much money was involved or even what type of pool game it was.

On the other hand when ask if they would be interested in watching pool if they knew the player and had heard them tell interesting stories about "gambling at pool and life on the road", jumped up to over 70% in one and 80% in the older demographic...

This puts a big hole in the stories saying "pool's not successful because of the image of gambling and hustling"....it's quite the contrary my pool friends...the fact is POOL CAN NOT BE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT THE IMAGE OF HUSTLING AND GAMBLING....this is the "powder" in the magic bullet and the key that unlocks the door to understanding the real reason pool has declined in the past 15 years.

After all the waves were all made by 'THE HUSTLER' and 'THE COLOR OF MONEY'....I road the last wave and pool was very popular on ESPN until about 14 years after the release of the Color of Money (in 86 starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise)....and it's been declining in ratings ever since and rarely is even seen on ESPN anymore.....and it seems to have been replaced with an even bigger gambling/action game....Poker.

We have something to learn from the world wide popularity of Texas HoldEm on TV.....perhaps gambling isn't pools image problem, maybe it's the solution!

I do understand the appeal of the dark side of pool and both you and miscrewed89 had made that point well.

I don't think I or anyone else could cleanse pool completely. In my opinion though, dark side neither has to be encouraged or fostered. It's a part of pool and always will be as far as I can tell.

I will do my best to leave the argyle socks and sweater vests at home. ;-)