"Science" an Improper Term? - Pocket Billiards is Knowledge, Physics and Geometry

[CJ Wiley]

"Science" an Improper Term? - Pocket Billiards is Knowledge, Physics and Geometry

I hear the word "science" used improperly regarding pocket billiards on this forum. Saying you need to understand "the science of pool" is misleading unless talking about philosophy. I do enjoy the philosophy of pool (pocket billiards), although I would not refer to it as "natural science".

Science is an inaccurate term (in most cases), the etymology (history) of the word is actually linked to philosophy*. Physics, Pursuit of Knowledge, and/or Geometry are what would be considered a better choice of wording to not confuse players and fans. SEE REFERENCE BELOW CLICK FOR MORE KNOWLEDGE

*
Ever since classical antiquity, science as a type of knowledge has been closely linked to philosophy. During the Islamic Golden Age,[2] the foundation for the scientific method was laid, which emphasized experimental data and reproducibility of its results.[nb 2] In the West during the early modern period the words "science" and "philosophy of nature" were sometimes used interchangeably,[3].3 and until the 17th century natural philosophy (which is today called "natural science") was considered a separate branch of philosophy in the West.[4]

 

[one stroke]

Physics is science !!

Physics (from Ancient Greek: φυσική (ἐπιστήμη) phusikḗ (epistḗmē) "knowledge of nature", from φύσις phúsis "nature") is the natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.


1

 

[ENGLISH!]

Physics is science !!

Physics (from Ancient Greek: φυσική (ἐπιστήμη) phusikḗ (epistḗmē) "knowledge of nature", from φύσις phúsis "nature") is the natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.


1

Yes.

Physics is the only natural science.

We use math & other man made 'sciences' in the attempt to explain physics.

 

[The Renfro]

If we were a mainstream sport I think the science of pool would be further advanced than it is... As it is I think what is not understood or understood incorrectly could fill volumes... Pool doesn't happen in a vacuum and while a few thousandths of a second seems short to us it's an eternity as it is all there is... And while we cannot react to things that quickly we can definitely alter what happens in that small of a window thru practice and technique.....

 

[CJ Wiley]

MAKE sure to click on the picture on my first post

Yes.

Physics is the only natural science.

We use math & other man made 'sciences' in the attempt to explain physics.

I see your point, however, read below and MAKE sure to click on the picture on my first post. This will explain things that I'm not willing to share (on this forum) about success, knowledge and achieving you desire in life.

Science in its original sense is a word for a type of knowledge (Latin scientia, Ancient Greek epistemē), rather than a specialized word for the pursuit of such knowledge. In particular it is one of the types of knowledge which people can communicate to each other and share.

 

[Pidge]

We are lucky in pool to have Dr Dave and Bob Jewett. What the snooker world would give for those two guys to relate some of their work to snooker. There is a massive gap in snooker with regards to physics knowledge and it leads to people not knowing things properly and this in turn leads to a lot of bad advice given.

We should count ourselves lucky we have not only Dave and Bob, but countless posters on this site that have lots of correct factual knowledge on the physics behind the game. It all adds to a persons game.

Knowledge is the teacher

 

[CJ Wiley]

the philosophy of pool?

If we were a mainstream sport I think the science of pool would be further advanced than it is... As it is I think what is not understood or understood incorrectly could fill volumes... Pool doesn't happen in a vacuum and while a few thousandths of a second seems short to us it's an eternity as it is all there is... And while we cannot react to things that quickly we can definitely alter what happens in that small of a window thru practice and technique.....

Don't you mean the philosophy of pool?

Click link below for references.


Ever since classical antiquity, science as a type of knowledge has been closely linked to philosophy.

 

[ENGLISH!]

If we were a mainstream sport I think the science of pool would be further advanced than it is... As it is I think what is not understood or understood incorrectly could fill volumes... Pool doesn't happen in a vacuum and while a few thousandths of a second seems short to us it's an eternity as it is all there is... And while we cannot react to things that quickly we can definitely alter what happens in that small of a window thru practice and technique.....

I Agreed. + more characters to allow the post.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Well said, Pidge, well said indeed. Knowledge is power

We are lucky in pool to have Dr Dave and Bob Jewett. What the snooker world would give for those two guys to relate some of their work to snooker. There is a massive gap in snooker with regards to physics knowledge and it leads to people not knowing things properly and this in turn leads to a lot of bad advice given.

We should count ourselves lucky we have not only Dave and Bob, but countless posters on this site that have lots of correct factual knowledge on the physics behind the game. It all adds to a persons game.

Knowledge is the teacher

Well said, Pidge, well said indeed. Knowledge is power, natural science is philosophy.

Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett have worked very hard to supply a source of this knowledge. I, for one appreciate all their contributions. We may not always agree, and that's an essential part of living, evolving, and developing as a human being.

Pidge can be the teacher too.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge"[1]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about nature and the universe.[nb 1] In an older and closely related meaning, "science" also refers to a body of knowledge itself, of the type that can be rationally explained and reliably applied

phi·los·o·phy
fəˈläsəfē/Submit
noun
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.
a particular system of philosophical thought.
plural noun: philosophies
"Schopenhauer’s philosophy"
the study of the theoretical basis of a particular branch of knowledge or experience.
"the philosophy of science"
synonyms: thinking, thought, reasoning
"the philosophy of Aristotle"

 

[CJ Wiley]

"science" would be better described as KNOWLEDGE when applying it to pool.

Physics is science !!

Physics (from Ancient Greek: φυσική (ἐπιστήμη) phusikḗ (epistḗmē) "knowledge of nature", from φύσις phúsis "nature") is the natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.


1

Science is knowledge, the word comes from it, so that's pretty solid proof. The word "science" would be better described as KNOWLEDGE when applying it to pool.

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge"[1]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about nature and the universe

 

[CJ Wiley]

Science is a very broad term, and it's a stretch to use it in describing pool knowled

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge"[1]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about nature and the universe.[nb 1] In an older and closely related meaning, "science" also refers to a body of knowledge itself, of the type that can be rationally explained and reliably applied

phi·los·o·phy
fəˈläsəfē/Submit
noun
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.
a particular system of philosophical thought.
plural noun: philosophies
"Schopenhauer’s philosophy"
the study of the theoretical basis of a particular branch of knowledge or experience.
"the philosophy of science"
synonyms: thinking, thought, reasoning
"the philosophy of Aristotle"

What's your point, do you prefer using "science" instead of knowledge, physics and geometry?

Science is a very broad term, and it's a stretch to use it in describing pool knowledge, or the physics/geometry involved to play the game.

 

[buddha162]

The woowoo is strong.

 

[one stroke]

If we were a mainstream sport I think the science of pool would be further advanced than it is... As it is I think what is not understood or understood incorrectly could fill volumes... Pool doesn't happen in a vacuum and while a few thousandths of a second seems short to us it's an eternity as it is all there is... And while we cannot react to things that quickly we can definitely alter what happens in that small of a window thru practice and technique.....

That maybe true however I have played a many of sport 1000s games and many of and the same games of pool and Iv yet to meet anyone who really cares why a baseball flys out of the park or a ball falls into a hole

1

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Think long, think wrong" - this certainly applies to playing pool,

That maybe true however I have played a many of sport 1000s games and many of and the same games of pool and Iv yet to meet anyone who really cares why a baseball flys out of the park or a ball falls into a hole

1

That's a good point, it's almost like watching an "instant reply" when talking in these terms like physics, and/or geometry - it doesn't help someone do it, but it does help to describe what was taking place at the moment.....so it does have it's place.

"Think long, think wrong" - this certainly applies to playing pool, although players can think all day long to seek to describe pocket billiard's shots (even if the outcome is wrong).

 

[PoolBum]

Philosophers distinguish between knowing how ("knowledge-how") to do something, versus knowing that something is true ("knowledge-that"):

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-how/

I think being able to play pool well is primarily about knowledge-how, not knowledge-that.

 

[ENGLISH!]

What's your point, do you prefer using "science" instead of knowledge, physics and geometry?

Science is a very broad term, and it's a stretch to use it in describing pool knowledge, or the physics/geometry involved to play the game.

I just put that out for reference.

I see your point. Note 'the philosophy of science'.

One can have all the physics knowledge & have no pool knowledge.

And the reverse could almost be accurately stated but since physics is real we ALL have some knowledge of it whether one can explain it or not.

I have & do agree with the statement that Neil credits you with saying though I don't recall you ever actually having said it.

'Science has just not caught up with me yet.'

I agree with Renfor/Chris. Pool has not been significantly studied enough by the scientific community for it to make certain 'definitive' statements.

Long ago everyone 'knew' that the world was flat because there was a time when both the 'science' & the 'philosophy' of that time said so.

Good thing & Thank God for the word 'pursuit' & what it means.

Best,
Rick

 

[Mikjary]

I like that a lot better than science! Nothing wrong with dissecting a sport, but don't do it while you're shooting...or walking, or chewing gum,...

I quoted my post above (emphasis mine) to preface my post, here. And to answer my fans who think I'm a hypocrite. :grin:

I'd like to see our game move in the direction of Kinesiology and help us to understand what constitutes a good stroke. No two are alike, but there are common markers for excellence.

Almost every sport has a baseline of knowledge for players to use to develop their abilities. We have instructors, but where do they get their information and is it reliable? Not knocking the hard working instructors, but wouldn't it be a lot easier if there was a movement for research and development physiologically of our stroke mechanics? These could be the basic building blocks of the stroke supplied to them and whomever else wanted the knowledge.

This type of science would contribute to the game and raise the level of play for quite a few players, myself included.

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

Mike, you remember his thread don't you, it was posted over 2 years ago.

I like that a lot better than science! Nothing wrong with dissecting a sport, but don't do it while you're shooting...or walking, or chewing gum,...

I quoted my post above (emphasis mine) to preface my post, here. And to answer my fans who think I'm a hypocrite. :grin:

I'd like to see our game move in the direction of Kinesiology and help us to understand what constitutes a good stroke. No two are alike, but there are common markers for excellence.

Almost every sport has a baseline of knowledge for players to use to develop their abilities. We have instructors, but where do they get their information and is it reliable? Not knocking the hard working instructors, but wouldn't it be a lot easier if there was a movement for research and development physiologically of our stroke mechanics? These could be the basic building blocks of the stroke supplied to them and whomever else wanted the knowledge.

This type of science would contribute to the game and raise the level of play for quite a few players, myself included.

Best,
Mike

Now, that's a great idea, I've found that much of the "contemporary knowledge" was actually wrong when it comes to Kinesiology

This Thread on azbilliards comes to mind about the wrist motion of the stroke (click here). Mike, you remember his thread don't you, it was posted over 2 years ago. I enjoyed your post on "depression" and hula hoops. :thumbup:

 

[Mikjary]

Kinesiology [/URL]

This Thread on azbilliards comes to mind about the wrist motion of the stroke (click here). Mike, you remember his thread don't you, it was posted over 2 years ago. I enjoyed your post on "depression" and hula hoops. :thumbup:

That was a great thread! I never thought about the wrist's movement much before that.

This weekend I watched Rodney (we're on a first name basis) finishing his strokes in the same manner you talk about in that thread. He uses his hand/fingers quite a bit as he spins around the greens, too.

I noticed his game went to a shorter, more compact stroke, but he's still getting a lot of movement on the cue ball. Do you know if his wrist movement has changed from years past?

Best,
Mike