Carlo Biado is World #1

[DAVE_M]

WHAT!? You ARE being sarcastic, right? Why on earth would you have grown men playing on kiddie tables? The only people who should ever play on 7 foot tables are kids and drunks who can't even stand up straight. Professionals playing on 7 footers is a complete joke, but sadly it isn't even funny.

As for Shane not going, can't say I blame him after what happened the last time. Still, the american pool scene becoming all about bar tables is an unmitigated disaster for US pool and a decision you will live to regret in the years to come. Please let the rest of the world have proper pool, if you insist on ruining your own pool scene.

Sarcastic? No.

Professionals should play in professional events. The world 10 ball event was less than professional. Don't get a professional event confused with professional players, like most of you do. CSI does a damn good job with their events, especially the USBTC.

Proper pool? If it were up to me, every event would be on Diamond 10' tables, but I don't get to make those decisions and neither do you. So if you think that the BAR TABLE championship should be played on 9' tables, then it wouldn't be called the USBTC now would it?

Also, just to clarify something. You wrote, "if you insist on ruining your own pool scene." I play on Diamond bar tables a few days a week. Having professionals play on the same tables that I do, does not ruin my pool scene or anyone other players "scene." It's one tournament. The USBTC. It's been held for multiple years and it hasn't ruined a damn thing. :kma:

My money would be on Daz

Mine too.

Maybe Dave is a drunk who can't stand up straight.

Why, because it's my opinion that the bar table event is more professional than the World 10 ball? Would you rather it be called the US 7ft Table Championship?

 

[AtLarge]

... Would you rather it be called the US 7ft Table Championship?

US Smallfoot Championships

 

[Bank it]

US Smallfoot Championships

Or "Battle of the baby table"
"Little table lolopolooza"

 

[nine_ball6970]

Sarcastic? No.

Professionals should play in professional events. The world 10 ball event was less than professional. Don't get a professional event confused with professional players, like most of you do. CSI does a damn good job with their events, especially the USBTC.

Is the US Open a professional event? I only ask because players have problems getting paid...... That seems unprofessional to me.

 

[sciarco]

Top 20

Only one USA player in the top 20 wow something wrong with this picture.

 

[arps]

Only one USA player in the top 20 wow something wrong with this picture.

SVB did not participate in All-Japan Open last year to prepare for the Mosconi Cup. He also did not play in the recent World 10-Ball because of the USBTC, which allowed him to accumulate points for the Mosconi Cup selection. I think it's a matter of priorities, and I respect Shane for that.

 

[DAVE_M]

Is the US Open a professional event? I only ask because players have problems getting paid...... That seems unprofessional to me.

Absolutely not. The US Open is a joke.
That's not to detract from Shane beating a field of professionals three years in a row.

Just because the field is full of professional players, doesn't mean the event will be run like a professional event.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Only one USA player in the top 20 wow something wrong with this picture.

I am not sure if there is anything wrong with the picture. It just shows that the rest of the world plays in these events whereas Americans mostly play in events held in the US. Are there any other Americans which you believe should be on the list?

 

[nine_ball6970]

Absolutely not. The US Open is a joke.
That's not to detract from Shane beating a field of professionals three years in a row.

Just because the field is full of professional players, doesn't mean the event will be run like a professional event.

Fair enough. How do you determine which events are professional vs which are not? Can you make that assessment accurately pertaining to events held in other countries?

 

[Kris_b1104]

SVB did not participate in All-Japan Open last year to prepare for the Mosconi Cup. He also did not play in the recent World 10-Ball because of the USBTC, which allowed him to accumulate points for the Mosconi Cup selection. I think it's a matter of priorities, and I respect Shane for that.

I called my mom and told her to make an account on AzB just to give you more greenies.

 

[DAVE_M]

Fair enough. How do you determine which events are professional vs which are not? Can you make that assessment accurately pertaining to events held in other countries?

- The US Open won't be a professional event until ole Barry is gone; That's a given.
- The World 10 Ball event has some shady stuff going on. Can't be very professional AND shady.
- I haven't heard any complaints about the venue, money being paid, or the referees at the USTBC. I would say CSI is very professional running their event.

I don't recall any complaints at the Japan Open or Chinese 8-ball event either, I would assume because they are professional events. If CSI wanted to host a 10 man tournament in a bar, I bet it would be a professional event, because they do a bang up job at what they do.

You're trying to make an argument out of nothing. No reason to defend the mishaps happening right in front of your eyes. You don't have to play in an event to see how unprofessional it is.

Professional and Unprofessional, to me those words mean "Well done" or "Horribly done," but so many of you see them as "Field of Professional Players" and "Bad Tournament."

Players not getting paid, bad table conditions, bad venue, and bad refereeing sounds like unprofessional to me.

 

[nine_ball6970]

- The US Open won't be a professional event until ole Barry is gone; That's a given.
- The World 10 Ball event has some shady stuff going on. Can't be very professional AND shady.
- I haven't heard any complaints about the venue, money being paid, or the referees at the USTBC. I would say CSI is very professional running their event.

I don't recall any complaints at the Japan Open or Chinese 8-ball event either, I would assume because they are professional events. If CSI wanted to host a 10 man tournament in a bar, I bet it would be a professional event, because they do a bang up job at what they do.

You're trying to make an argument out of nothing. No reason to defend the mishaps happening right in front of your eyes. You don't have to play in an event to see how unprofessional it is.

Professional and Unprofessional, to me those words mean "Well done" or "Horribly done," but so many of you see them as "Field of Professional Players" and "Bad Tournament."

Players not getting paid, bad table conditions, bad venue, and bad refereeing sounds like unprofessional to me.

I still feel like a field full of professionals has merit in how players are ranked. Is a win less important because the event was poorly run?

I am not defending those tournaments but the caliber of players in the fields. People want to downplay the performance of Ko Pin Yi and Carlo Biado at the World Ten Ball. It is not their fault the event had problems.

Maybe the rankings should be done only using tournaments ran by CSI. Maybe we should just use the AZB money list. I find it hard to believe that the World 10 ball is the first tournament of the year for some of those players though.

 

[DAVE_M]

I still feel like a field full of professionals has merit in how players are ranked. Is a win less important because the event was poorly run?

I never mentioned anything about a winning at an unprofessional event.

I am not defending those tournaments but the caliber of players in the fields. People want to downplay the performance of Ko Pin Yi and Carlo Biado at the World Ten Ball. It is not their fault the event had problems.

AHA MOMENT! People do, but I didn't. So get off my nuts about Carlo Biado.

Maybe the rankings should be done only using tournaments ran by CSI. Maybe we should just use the AZB money list. I find it hard to believe that the World 10 ball is the first tournament of the year for some of those players though.

Why should we rank the players at all? Pool does not have a governing body.

Does a player have to win a certain association's event to be recognized as a professional? If that's the way you think, then there are a lot of players that shouldn't be considered professional.

 

[Straightpool_99]

- The US Open won't be a professional event until ole Barry is gone; That's a given.
- The World 10 Ball event has some shady stuff going on. Can't be very professional AND shady.
- I haven't heard any complaints about the venue, money being paid, or the referees at the USTBC. I would say CSI is very professional running their event.

I don't recall any complaints at the Japan Open or Chinese 8-ball event either, I would assume because they are professional events. If CSI wanted to host a 10 man tournament in a bar, I bet it would be a professional event, because they do a bang up job at what they do.

You're trying to make an argument out of nothing. No reason to defend the mishaps happening right in front of your eyes. You don't have to play in an event to see how unprofessional it is.

Professional and Unprofessional, to me those words mean "Well done" or "Horribly done," but so many of you see them as "Field of Professional Players" and "Bad Tournament."

Players not getting paid, bad table conditions, bad venue, and bad refereeing sounds like unprofessional to me.

An event being run in a less than professional manner should have no bearing on the ranking points it carries, UNLESS there is major shenanigans with referees and tables, to a point where the integrity of the tournament is completely compromised. The US open is not being run very well at the moment, but that doesn't mean that it should not have ranking points and MC points attached to it, because it is one of the biggest, most prestigeous event in the US along with DCC (if it even survives another year). Ever since I started playing pool I've wanted to go to the US Open, and now that it is finally financially feasible for me, it has been reduced to a shell of it's former self and may not even be around next year:frown:.

The fact that the USBTC is a well run, successful tournament is not in dispute. The problem is that they are playing on 7 foot tables, which is not the standard used in WPA events or the MC. It would be like using the 800 m run as a qualifier to a 100m run, or miniature golf as a PGA tour qualifier. It just doesn't make sense, no matter how professional or well organized those events may be. Now that most of your big table events are dead there may be no other options than to use the bar table championships (Us open 8/10 ball and USBTC) as qualifiers, unless: You would combine smaller events on big tables into "regional tours". You would then have regional champions which could be either sent directly to the MC/WPC, or could play for a spot against each other. As some regions are stronger than others (I would guess) you could always keep a wildcard or two open, or have different numbers of spots open depending on the region.

My previous comment about "ruining your pool scene" is one I stand by. Having all your top professionals compete on 7 foot tables exclusively will undoubtedly cause a decline in US players results abroad, in the WPC and MC for example. Remember when Europe mostly had snooker players on their team in the MC? They did "all right", but they lost almost every time. It is just sad to see a sport die before ones eyes, and become a pale shadow of what it once was. At least pool will live on in Asia and possibly Europe, though it's not doing too well here either.

 

[AtLarge]

... The problem is that they are playing on 7 foot tables, which is not the standard used in WPA events or the MC. It would be like using the 800 m run as a qualifier to a 100m run, or miniature golf as a PGA tour qualifier. It just doesn't make sense ....

But what if it were true that (1) the same group of players who are best on 7-footers are also best on 9-footers and (2) they are essentially just as much better than the next-lower-skilled group of players using 7-footers as using 9-footers? Then, wouldn't it be OK to use smaller tables to qualify for events on larger tables, or vice versa?

P.S. 1 -- I think (1) and (2) above are essentially what mikepage, using his Fargo ratings, is claiming.

P.S. 2 -- I still dislike the notion of "pro" or high-level open events moving more toward 7-footers. But I'm having a bit of a hard time rationalizing my sentiments (assuming Mike is correct).

 

[spartan]

An event being run in a less than professional manner should have no bearing on the ranking points it carries, UNLESS there is major shenanigans with referees and tables, to a point where the integrity of the tournament is completely compromised. The US open is not being run very well at the moment, but that doesn't mean that it should not have ranking points and MC points attached to it, because it is one of the biggest, most prestigeous event in the US along with DCC (if it even survives another year). Ever since I started playing pool I've wanted to go to the US Open, and now that it is finally financially feasible for me, it has been reduced to a shell of it's former self and may not even be around next year:frown:.

The fact that the USBTC is a well run, successful tournament is not in dispute. The problem is that they are playing on 7 foot tables, which is not the standard used in WPA events or the MC. It would be like using the 800 m run as a qualifier to a 100m run, or miniature golf as a PGA tour qualifier. It just doesn't make sense, no matter how professional or well organized those events may be. Now that most of your big table events are dead there may be no other options than to use the bar table championships (Us open 8/10 ball and USBTC) as qualifiers, unless: You would combine smaller events on big tables into "regional tours". You would then have regional champions which could be either sent directly to the MC/WPC, or could play for a spot against each other. As some regions are stronger than others (I would guess) you could always keep a wildcard or two open, or have different numbers of spots open depending on the region.

My previous comment about "ruining your pool scene" is one I stand by. Having all your top professionals compete on 7 foot tables exclusively will undoubtedly cause a decline in US players results abroad, in the WPC and MC for example. Remember when Europe mostly had snooker players on their team in the MC? They did "all right", but they lost almost every time. It is just sad to see a sport die before ones eyes, and become a pale shadow of what it once was. At least pool will live on in Asia and possibly Europe, though it's not doing too well here either.

+1 Good post. It will be death knell for pool if 7foot tables are cooler for pros than 9ft
Heck, will get neighbourhood pub to organize baby 4ft tables tourney for kids only. It will be best organized and most professional in world and based on some farting chalatanic nincompoop's fictional assumptions , it will automatically be World Barbox Championship. Pros will be banned as it is bad enough that they are stealing lunch from amateurs, bangers so we do not want them stealing from kids.

But what if it were true that (1) the same group of players who are best on 7-footers are also best on 9-footers and (2) they are essentially just as much better than the next-lower-skilled group of players using 7-footers as using 9-footers? Then, wouldn't it be OK to use smaller tables to qualify for events on larger tables, or vice versa?

P.S. 1 -- I think (1) and (2) above are essentially what mikepage, using his Fargo ratings, is claiming.

P.S. 2 -- I still dislike the notion of "pro" or high-level open events moving more toward 7-footers. But I'm having a bit of a hard time rationalizing my sentiments (assuming Mike is correct).

That should be fine only if it is tourney for pros only and excludes dead money/amateurs/bangers/fanboys.

 

[DAVE_M]

An event being run in a less than professional manner should have no bearing on the ranking points it carries, UNLESS there is major shenanigans with referees and tables, to a point where the integrity of the tournament is completely compromised.

I agree. However, I think everyone is getting off track. There are only two events in question here: USBTC and World 10 Ball.

The fact that the USBTC is a well run, successful tournament is not in dispute. The problem is that they are playing on 7 foot tables, which is not the standard used in WPA events or the MC.

Precisely and I never made any mention about the WPA adopting 7ft tables for all events.

Now that most of your big table events are dead there may be no other options than to use the bar table championships (Us open 8/10 ball and USBTC) as qualifiers

Again, I made no mention of the USBTC or US Open being a qualifier for anything.

My previous comment about "ruining your pool scene" is one I stand by. Having all your top professionals compete on 7 foot tables exclusively will undoubtedly cause a decline in US players results abroad, in the WPC and MC for example. Remember when Europe mostly had snooker players on their team in the MC? They did "all right", but they lost almost every time. It is just sad to see a sport die before ones eyes, and become a pale shadow of what it once was. At least pool will live on in Asia and possibly Europe, though it's not doing too well here either.

Yet again, I made no statements that 7ft tables should be adopted.


Let's recap, shall we?
- arps was disappointed that Shane went to the USBTC, instead of the World 10 ball event
- I asked why he would be disappointed in Shane.
- I poked fun at the World 10 ball event using the WPA ranking as the punchline
- I asked my question again and also asked why Shane should have gone to an event where there were small odds of winning, when he had better odds to win the USBTC.
- nine_ball6970 says Shane should have been in the World 10 ball event

Purely from a money stand point, any tournament is a gamble. Shane had better odds winning at the USBTC and it was held in the states. Which from a money standpoint, staying in the country is a lesser expense.

Carlo is the WPA #1 ranked player... Cool...
Shane pulled off his third consecutive USBTC 9-ball win. That's cool-er.



Some people just don't get it

- Then it hit the fan.

Just so the railbirds, in this discussion, know. This has nothing to do with playing on a 7ft table, this has nothing to do with Carlo Biado, and this has nothing to do with the future of pool.

This has everything to do with the fact that there is no incentive to play tournaments for points. Players will go where they believe they can make the most money. Why would any of the Filipino players leave the Philippines to play in a tournament with less money? Why would Shane leave the USA to play in a tournament that he has lesser odds of winning? Not to mention he would have to place very high to break even on his travel expenses.

I'm beginning to think AzB is full of idiots and Watchez, JCIN, Jaden, and Wedge are the only sane people around here.

 

[corvette1340]

This #1 ranking and 85 cents will get Biado a cup of coffee

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I feel bad for SVB.
Surely his sack MUST hurt from the deathgrip the swingers, who are hanging on for dear life, have on it.

 

[one stroke]

I feel bad for SVB.
Surely his sack MUST hurt from the deathgrip the swingers, who are hanging on for dear life, have on it.

Now now you know he will horse f@$k anyone in a race to 100



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