Just about every place to play has house cues. Why are you allowed to bring your own cue??
One guy uses the magic rack - Everyone else the wooden rack
- Thread starter ShortBusRuss
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Just about every place to play has house cues. Why are you allowed to bring your own cue??
For me everyone should use the house or tourney provided racks, cue balls and tables, no exceptions. Bringing in your own ball sets, cue balls and racks should not be allowed in a tournament. Not all events are done that way though and in those cases the director makes the call. As players we either deal with it or don't play. Simple.
This is probably the simplest most common sense answer in the entire thread.
No need for a rule book, racking directive or a final verdict from Joe the TD / Electrician.
Real simple, what rack and balls does the house use? Ok, then use them.
No need for a rule book, racking directive or a final verdict from Joe the TD / Electrician.
Real simple, what rack and balls does the house use? Ok, then use them.
He shouldn't be allowed to use the magic rack...
He should use the rack the tournament provides. You wouldn't be allowed to use your own balls either right? Having the wing ball go 95% of the time on a soft break where no ball is ever touching another after the break, isn't cool. This goes for 10 ball too where the balls behind the one go straight in the side and no ball is ever touching after the break.
Just look at the US Bar Table Championships. The players will tell you that the rack is a joke there and the tournament directors just want to get the matches over with as fast as possible.
He should use the rack the tournament provides. You wouldn't be allowed to use your own balls either right? Having the wing ball go 95% of the time on a soft break where no ball is ever touching another after the break, isn't cool. This goes for 10 ball too where the balls behind the one go straight in the side and no ball is ever touching after the break.
Just look at the US Bar Table Championships. The players will tell you that the rack is a joke there and the tournament directors just want to get the matches over with as fast as possible.
Neil already answered that. So use a house cue then also. I would bet your own cue gives you more of an advantage
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Yes that is what I was trying to find out, would a ref that had instruction as a ref to make fair calls within the rules and sometimes outside of the rules allow the MR when one player opposes it's use and there was no standard given out by the tournament.
This along with the fact that everyone that played in tournaments when this situation was brought up said that the tournament or tour said that both players had to agree to the MR being used or it's not allowed to be used, pretty much ends the discusion. While the TD/Ref can make whateve call they want in their tournament, the "correct" call would be to not allow the MR unless both players agreed to it's use, if said MR was not part of the tournament or room to begin with. It just changes the game too much.
I would guess that you would let a player use a regular triangle rack if the one they had was better than the house ones is that correct? Say someone carried a Delta 13 in their car and wanted to use that instead of the triangle rack the room had. I don't see not being able to use that if the house ones were not good.
Some things can't be compared. A golfer can use his own clubs but he can't bring a lawn mower and start trimming the grass around the hole before he putts. A baseball player can bring his own bat, but he has to use the balls MLB provides and can't go around cutting 4 inches off the fence to make home runs easier.
But baseball players can wear elbow protection to let them crowd the plate.
Golfers can choose which clubs they use on any given day as well as what ball they use. And those clubs? Tweaked for hours to get the best possible swing for that particular player's idiosyncrasies.
Yes and we can bring different shafts, tips, and hell, have you seen Earl and his elbow protection/weights LOL? But we can't swap out cueballs willy-nilly, or racks if the other player objects. That is the core of the issue here, not so much if it's better to use this or that, but given the guidelines provided, which is other tournaments having a set rule for rack use where both players have to agree (outside of CSI which explicitly notes that you can't deny use of the MR, but seeing how they are distributing the thing and it's mandatory in the 9 and 10 ball we can probably leave that out as a factor), plus the fact that there was no rule given out that any of the players can use any rack and you can't say anything, I just don't see how the ref or TD can allow the other player to use the MR over the objection of someone.
Plus we had a CSI trained ref say in the situation given "no way would I allow the MR to be used".
What if one guy wanted to switch tables but one did not? Say if they were assigned that table by the tournament director, Mr A and Mr B, table 4. One guy did not like how the cloth looked and wanted to switch, Mr B said, no I like that table. Then what? If the table was technically fine, no rips, rails were normal, etc... would it be OK to force the switch? I am going to guess that no-one can say "yes force the switch" with any type of solid reason. That is the same thing here, if the rack they used was good, and one guy did not want to allow use of the MR, it should not be over-ruled and be allowed. And if the rack was NOT good, then a suitable regular rack replacement should be found first before they use the MR.
As a neutral party, discounting your own preference for what rack to use or what YOU would do if someone asked to use the MR, with the fact that there are a lot of other tournaments and areas that already made the ruling and said BOTH plyers have to agree and that is the call that a ref would make, there is really only one correct ruling, and the TD in this case did not make that choice. There is huge amount of evidence one way, and mostly personal opinions the other way.
I'm not even saying that the guy was horrible and in idiot for making that call, that it was 100% clear as to what to do because it is not. I would say 80% of the reasoning would sway towards not allowing the MR use. Yes, 20% is that it's a legal rack and it's a good rack and really what is the huge deal, but I think the other 80% that the ruling was already made in a LOT of other places and actual tournaments and that we have a ref saying his call would be not to allow it, well outweighs the other side of things.
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Same thing as cues and bridge heads. Some items are simply acceptable to bring the to table as your own equipment that no-one can deny you unless the tournament is being sponsored by some brand of chalk and you are on the TV table and have to use it for that reason.
When I was at Jr Nationals in Vegas, Delta 13 was one of the sponsors, and they used the Delta at the TV table. And guess what was UNDER the Delta? A Magic Rack that was the device actually used to rack the balls LOL. They just placed the Delta over the balls to show it as the sponsor, not actually rack with it.
Who's Neil and who cares?
Regarding cues, the cue is like a golf club. Golfers can use their own clubs but they don't get to cut the grass on the tee box or adjust the slope of the greens..
Regarding cues, the cue is like a golf club. Golfers can use their own clubs but they don't get to cut the grass on the tee box or adjust the slope of the greens..
So you mean he should not be allowed to use the magic rack so you can have the edge in your way. And you think it's fair when you have the edge, not him
To be honest, if he wants to use the magic rack then let him use it, you can use the normal rack, then both have your fair share of preference, right ?
The experience also shows that :
- You are not confident enough in your game
- You are easily touched a.k.a sensible
- You are not looking to win but for a reason to lose. when you see the guy plays well with the magic rack, the only thing you think about is "god I can't let him use that", instead of thinking "I will beat his ass anyway". You already lost to yourself before the match.
I think this incidence is good for you to realize how fragile you are mentally, you can admit it or not, your choice, but that's the truth. Most we learn are from mistakes. You can also say you are not agree with me in here and consider it by yourself. It's for you after all.
Best,
I agree the TD made a bad decision. But the decision was made and the OP either should have walked out in protest or manned-up and beat the guy anyway.
So take this as you will since I know many don't like him on here, I just asked Mike Dechaine what he thinks a ref would do if his opponent wanted to use an MR and he did not, he said he did not think the ref would let him.
I just asked him as someone that has played in every type of match you can think of and has been in places where a ref was watching them all the time.
I just asked him as someone that has played in every type of match you can think of and has been in places where a ref was watching them all the time.
Did you ask him what he would have done if a TD allowed his opponent to use the MR anyway?
Thanks, that is what the thread was about really, not what we would have done if we were there, but what would be the proper call to make as a TD or a ref.
I'm not even taking the stance that the TD was 100% wrong to make that call, since from the point of view of the MR being legal and it works great, there is no reason not to use it. Except for the fact that the opponent did not want him to and it was not part of the standard equipment at the tournament.
I even think that if both players agreed to use the MR, and the same TD said you can't, without a pre-tournament rule about it, that would have been the wrong call to make, just as long as both players were OK with both or one of them using the MR. It does not affect in any way the outcome of any other game, and does not break any rules, so if two players agree to it, and it's within the general rules of pool, let them do it.