Lets bring pool back to the glory days

[Pushout]

pool isn't dying, it's changing. the era of the gambler is (finally) coming to an end, and IMO it can't come soon enough. those of you stuck in those old ways of thinking can die with it.

The day of the hustler is over, maybe, but taking money play out? It's already been tried. People will always play pool for money, just like they bet on golf, horses, football, basketball, backgammon, etc. They already tried to "clean up" the game and it's been proven that it doesn't work. Those of you who are stuck in that kind of thinking can die with it. Playing pool for money has ALWAYS been part of the lure and fascination of the game, even for many people who don't gamble at it. Get over it!

 

[Push&Pool]

Tramp...I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. There are 400,000 amateur league players playing every week in nationally sanctioned pool leagues across the USA. There are 10x that many playing in their little "local" leagues in small towns across America. It's hard to find a bar that doesn't have at least one pool table. If we ever figure out how to tap into the really "local" league player, pool here will skyrocket. Pool is hardly dead or dying.

The economy has been in a freefall for nearly a decade, and equipment sales trend along with it. Diamond can barely keep up with demand. Cue companies like McDermott and Viking are thriving. China, with it's BILLION people is so interested in creating league pool there, that they have hired Randyg as a consultant to help them get things going. He and I are involved in an effort to train Chinese instructors to help facilitate the emergence of widespread desires to learn to play.

The DCC garners 1000+ players every year to it's events. The APA, VNEA, TAP, and BCAPL leagues draw tens of thousands of participants every year to their national tournaments. The biggest consumer pool show in the country is about to begin it's annual spate of "pool everything" that draws tens of thousands of enthusiasts every year. Pool is alive and well...it's just some people notions that it's dead or dying.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I've been saying this for a long time as well. Generally speaking pool is doing well, or at least a lot better than its professional aspect and pool hall business. It has changed and evolved. Thousands of pool room players have been replaced by millions of bar players. But certain people stuck in the old ways, who constantly bash on leagues and consider bar pool to be a bastardization, think pool is firmly heading towards its end, while it's only the old version of it that will die out.

Power of modern pool is in numbers and globalization. The first thing pool community should do with what's left of its power is to attract as many new players to the game. And I mean any form of the game. Casual bar pool, leagues, tournaments... everything counts, people should just keep playing the game more or less regularly and love it. The number of total pool players needs to rise at least 5 times in North America and more than 15 times in Europe, Asia, South America, Australia etc.

Now, once we have this ocean of novice and average players I'm speaking about in pretty much every continent, continental leagues should be developed. Leagues of that size have the potential to gather money and media attention. It would also allow the better players to compete at a high level against opponents from many different countries.

All pool organizations and smaller competitions should merge together into a single large one for every continent, and a single world governing body. Almost every sport except pool has that already. Boxing doesn't and it's not doing great either.

 

[336Robin]

Movie/Advertisement

thall,
I agree with you it would be nice to see Pool come back to its glory days but a lot has changed, some of it could be worked around. Pool has no ambassador at the Amateur level. Without new people...amateurs...coming in it will continue to decline. Pool leagues bring people into pool and from what I understand pool league numbers are up but bars in my area are fairly empty of Pool Players.

What I see needs to happen is that Pool Establishments need a recruitment tool which I have been working to develop. Ive written a book that shows people a simple and effective way to Aim Pool Shots. Its short, concise and all one needs to be able to have a solid idea on what to do under many conditions.

I am now trying to run two Pilot Programs using this material in book form. Where I sell the books to the establishment at a discounted price so they can distribute to Medical Centers, Senior Centers and lobby's of all kinds...with their STAMP on it that tells them the location, hrs and address of the business.

If people are not exposed to Pool or in this case re exposed because most people have been exposed in their youth it will never occur to them...Hey lets go play pool today!

The target of my program is to expose a variety of People in better demographics than what we currently have in our game. Sadly we don't have to go far in many cases to go up although there are some really good people in the game.

Robin

Many years ago, back in the 80's there were pool rooms all over the nation, every town had one. Every town had their own best shooter, the guy that everyone was convinced was the best shot in town. Pool has had its ups and downs over the years. By the late 50's pool was in big decline, rooms were closing up all over the country. Then came Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason in the movie The Hustler. Huge hit and pool was brought back to life. ABC featured matches on Wide World of Sports and pool was breathing new life again. Today once again pool is in decline. Sadly today we have the best equipment ever made to play the game yet there are fewer people playing today. Money has dried up in the game and its a shame. There are pro players today with so much skill at the game that are barely making a living. Prize money for big open invitation matches is what the players put up to play in the matches. Can you imagine any other sport where the players have to pay to play and if they don't win they go home with nothing. When was the last King of The Hill match where the prize money was $200,000 to the winner, 2005 I think. As crazy as Strickland is he said it best, there is no money in pool, we're all broke.

I think a movie featuring the life story of Willie Mosconi on the major screen would wake up the game, rooms would open up, people would be playing in droves.

Lets hear your ideas and hopefully someone somewhere will pick up on them and invest in our game again an bring it back to the glory days.

 

[itsfroze]

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[336Robin]

You make interesting points

Tramp...I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. There are 400,000 amateur league players playing every week in nationally sanctioned pool leagues across the USA. There are 10x that many playing in their little "local" leagues in small towns across America. It's hard to find a bar that doesn't have at least one pool table. If we ever figure out how to tap into the really "local" league player, pool here will skyrocket. Pool is hardly dead or dying.

Figuring out how to tap in that base of players is a key for Pool.However Pool does take place in privately owned establishments and the success of those establishments are absolutely necessary to the success of Pool. I am working on a program to bring New People in to help keep those establisments open. If the Room Owner succeeds then the Amateur Pool Leagues do well. The Amateur Pool Leagues do better when there are more New People coming in.I see that in order to tap into that base you have to learn to create that base as well. Its unlikely that Pool League Systems will allow that or its unlikely that Pool League Systems will pay for table time. However if you can figure out how to make all of their players better that causes teams to split and grow and then lower level players are recruited which increases the number to a larger one. I have ideas on this if you are ever interested and I have plans to print material in Mandarin and Russian.

The economy has been in a freefall for nearly a decade, and equipment sales trend along with it. Diamond can barely keep up with demand. Cue companies like McDermott and Viking are thriving. China, with it's BILLION people is so interested in creating league pool there, that they have hired Randyg as a consultant to help them get things going. He and I are involved in an effort to train Chinese instructors to help facilitate the emergence of widespread desires to learn to play.

The DCC garners 1000+ players every year to it's events. The APA, VNEA, TAP, and BCAPL leagues draw tens of thousands of participants every year to their national tournaments. The biggest consumer pool show in the country is about to begin it's annual spate of "pool everything" that draws tens of thousands of enthusiasts every year. Pool is alive and well...it's just some people notions that it's dead or dying.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott,
I agree that pool league players have increased. My only concern is the owners of the places they play. Strength from the bottom up is necessary into growing the sport nation and world wide.

 

[jackpot]

you're right

pool isn't dying, it's changing. the era of the gambler is (finally) coming to an end, and IMO it can't come soon enough. those of you stuck in those old ways of thinking can die with it.

The Hustler is what got pool going and then TCOM. Do you really think
that if these movies had been about Paul Newman playing League and
wearing a bowling shirt with patches on it, giving all his team mates a
big high five after he won a game of eight ball, that pool would have
taken off. Look at the stories and books people on AZ want to here about
They are about the gambling not about league or tournaments. Even when
there were some pretty big tournaments years ago, the people that were
there couldn't tell you who won, but could tell you C. J. beat J A, or
Efren gave Amarrillo Slim some crazy spot, etc. Pool is not fun to watch
on TV , it's not fun to watch a tournament for most people, most pool
players will sweat a big gambling match between two people that can,t
run 3 balls instead of watch the finals of the U.S. open. Players can,t
make a living gambling any more, and never could off of tournaments.
When pool was really going strong you would always here "We need to
clean up pools image", "get women involved, get leagues going, have
handicap tournaments, ect." all the time you were on a two hour waiting
list for a table. Should have left it alone.
jacki

 

[336Robin]

Leagues take place in Private Establishments

I see a lot of numbers providing that Pool league numbers are consistently up which might be absolutely true.

Another truth is that Pool Leagues take place in Private Establishments which have been closing due to lack of New Customer Support and leagues generally get free table time.

Im not saying they should pay but what I am saying is if Bar Owners dont find a feasible way to attract new clients the place to play will continue to close.

So if they do, will Pool Leagues build League Centers? I kind of doubt it.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Tramp...I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. There are 400,000 amateur league players playing every week in nationally sanctioned pool leagues across the USA. There are 10x that many playing in their little "local" leagues in small towns across America. It's hard to find a bar that doesn't have at least one pool table. If we ever figure out how to tap into the really "local" league player, pool here will skyrocket. Pool is hardly dead or dying.

The economy has been in a freefall for nearly a decade, and equipment sales trend along with it. Diamond can barely keep up with demand. Cue companies like McDermott and Viking are thriving. China, with it's BILLION people is so interested in creating league pool there, that they have hired Randyg as a consultant to help them get things going. He and I are involved in an effort to train Chinese instructors to help facilitate the emergence of widespread desires to learn to play.
The DCC garners 1000+ players every year to it's events. The APA, VNEA, TAP, and BCAPL leagues draw tens of thousands of participants every year to their national tournaments. The biggest consumer pool show in the country is about to begin it's annual spate of "pool everything" that draws tens of thousands of enthusiasts every year. Pool is alive and well...it's just some people notions that it's dead or dying.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Your numbers are impressive, Scott, but there are over 324 million people in the United states (not counting illegal aliens). Using only the two numbers above we see that only 0.001234 percent of the population is effected.
I think a better indicator is to simply look around our own locales to see a more realistic picture. I live in a medium sized city (175,000 give or take), where we have only two pool rooms, and one of them is a very small one. After that there isn't another room within sixty-five miles in any direction.
What you are doing is great. Keep it up. I know that if things can get done, you and Randy, can do them. :smile:

 

[SJDinPHX]

pool isn't dying, it's changing. the era of the gambler is (finally) coming to an end, and IMO it can't come soon enough. those of you stuck in those old ways of thinking can die with it...Its not the 'old way', its the 'only way' pool will survive !...Maybe you'd be happier bowling, or playing croquet ?

The Hustler is what got pool going and then TCOM. Do you really think that if these movies had been about Paul Newman playing League, and giving Tom Cruise and all his team mates a big high five, after he won a game of eight ball, that pool would have taken off ? (hilarious)

Pool is not fun to watch on TV , it's not fun to watch a tournament for most people......Most pool players will sweat a big gambling match between two people that can't run 3 balls instead of watch the finals of the U.S. open.....When pool was really going strong you would always hear, "We need to clean up pools image", ".."get women involved".. "get leagues going" etc.... All the time, you were on a two hour waiting list for a table, and there were plenty of thriving pool halls in every city !
jacki

Two opposing viewpoints, but only one makes any sense at all !...I can't believe ANYONE doesn't realize, it takes gambling to make pool interesting !..Only people who weren't around in pools 'glory days' would think otherwise...Does anyone really think poker would have enjoyed its TV explosion WITHOUT gambling ?

Yes, I'm old, but I remember when pool enjoyed "the good old days", full of character's and gambling !..All you do-gooder, non-gambler's keep trying to "clean it up"..you've almost succeeded in wiping it out completely ! :frown:

 

[philly]

I think the players that are glad gambling is going away are just the ones that don't have the stomach for it. Just a guess but I don't think they can hang when they have skin in the game. To the contrary having an AFFORDABLE wager on a game is what makes you step it up. I call it heart. If all there was available was APA leagues and such with all their sandbagging and maneuvering I don't think there would be any fun in playing. I'll take the mano y mano scenario any day.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I think the players that are glad gambling is going away are just the ones that don't have the stomach for it. Just a guess but I don't think they can hang when they have skin in the game. To the contrary having an AFFORDABLE wager on a game is what makes you step it up. I call it heart. If all there was available was APA leagues and such with all their sandbagging and maneuvering I don't think there would be any fun in playing. I'll take the mano y mano scenario any day.

Moneyo a moneyo.

You lot are addicted to money, not pool. Pool is merely the vehicle for feeding that addiction.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

324 million

your numbers are impressive, scott, but there are over 324 billion people in the united states (not counting illegal aliens). Using only the two numbers above we see that only 0.000001 percent of the population is effected.
I think a better indicator is to simply look around our own locales to see a more realistic picture. I live in a medium sized city (175,000 give or take), where we have only two pool rooms, and one of them is a very small one. After that there isn't another room within sixty-five miles in any direction.
What you are doing is great. Keep it up. I know that if things can get done, you and randy, can do them. :smile:

 

[Tramp Steamer]

324 million

Ah, yes! Quite right.
Take a couple of numbers out of that percentage figure.
Thanks for the help.

 

[NitPicker]

Pool used to be everywhere, and accessible to all ages. Boys and girls clubs and social clubs like Elks, Moose, etc. Universities and even community colleges would at least have pool clubs, if not something even more formal for pool. In the late 80's I played on a bar table that was in an arcade room in the back of a convenience store. Someone recently mentioned RV campgrounds and I played at a few of those 30 years ago or so. I played pool at a roller rink even, wearing skates (It's a blast, and fast paced). When I was growing up, you couldn't get away from pool and the funny thing is other than the movie characters, or Fats, I don't think many folks could have named pros even back then.

Another tidbit some might find interesting: Pool was on tv a bit more when I was growing up. Not like primetime or anything. I mostly remember afternoons during summer breaks from school. But here's the thing...pool was on tv before I started playing. It wasn't the pros that made me want to play pool. Playing pool made me want to watch the pros. And if my only option as a pre-teen, early teenager was in a pool hall or bar, I probably wouldn't have played at all. And if my first games were not against kids my own age, but instead against Fast Eddie Felson who never played for free...I wouldn't have lasted long and I don't know many, if any that would.

 

[vikingpitbull]

To me its just like everything else in life. It should have options for all. I don't need money involved to play pool, poker or to watch sports. Some people need the money aspect for whatever reason both good, and bad.

Everyone has a different reason or interest inside the same institutions. To me pool, golf, baseball, nascar, poker etc etc are all boring to watch, but pretty fun doing them in different ways. Others enjoy watching as well as playing, and that is fine by me. I don't.

What made me get back into pool is moving to a town of 140 people. Nothing around but corn fields. I needed something to fill time, and bring in friends to enjoy the time with. My bar style dart board was getting old by itself. I don't like Bars, and that is the only place you can play around here.There are no pool halls (centers) that I know of within 60 miles of me or farther.

I'm not good enough to be throwing money on a a table so the hustle game isn't for me. Even if I was I wouldn't do it, but that just me.

One thing I do know is the people within the game are usually its own worst enemy. Money is always attached, and it cost so much to enjoy any activity in today's world. Pool is no exception.

I use to be into classic cars, and was driven out in much the same fashion. The money it now takes isn't worth it. There is no enjoyment spending double of what you will get back in return.

When pool made a come back the manufactures stepped up, and opened brand name centers, and outfitted them to a T. That is what made it attractive to people, I think we need to see the same thing happen again, and IMO that is what will make the sport grow. Anything that is big has big money backing it. Until that happens numbers won't matter IMO.

That is somewhat my take from a newer middle aged players point of view.

 

[garczar]

Yeah, Cruise could play a whacked-out Scientologist who goes grabs his cue and goes on the road looking to win money to give to his controllers at Hubbard HQ in LA. Shouldn't be much of a stretch for 'ol Tommy.

 

[mattyice]

This isn't necessarily directed at anyone specific, but there's a hell of a lot of generalizing here about league play and players. I guess my experiences have been different, and what I'm trying to say is you don't have to be either a hustler or a bar-box banger to enjoy this game. In fact, a lot of us probably aren't either of those things. Some of us just love the game and want to keep playing it and getting better at it.

 

[3andstop]

Pool hasn't changed .... Our society has changed. From being able to walk down the street after dark, to saying hello to neighbors, to stopping in the isle of a supermarket and making small talk to strangers, to walking to the corner soda fountain, to helping someone in need without fear of being shot for doing it, to general respect for others by not showing everyone your ass hanging out of your pants, to walking or driving with your head down texting in a freaking phone ... and on ... and on ... and on.


Once you figure out how to return some morals to our society, don't worry, pool will be there waiting.

 

[fastone371]

Two opposing viewpoints, but only one makes any sense at all !...I can't believe ANYONE doesn't realize, it takes gambling to make pool interesting !..Only people who weren't around in pools 'glory days' would think otherwise...Does anyone really think poker would have enjoyed its TV explosion WITHOUT gambling ?

Yes, I'm old, but I remember when pool enjoyed "the good old days", full of character's and gambling !..All you do-gooder, non-gambler's keep trying to "clean it up"..you've almost succeeded in wiping it out completely ! :frown:

Very well said!! I do not understand why someone would have a problem with 2 consenting adults playing a game of pool for a few bucks. If you want to play pool and do not wish to gamble there is nothing wrong with that, it is your choice if you choose to risk losing money over a game. Gambling is not a requirement if you want to play pool, on the other hand if 2 people wish to wager on their game they should not need to seek approval from those who choose not to wager to indulge in their enjoyment.

 

[itsfroze]

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